I've a 4ft tank, about 240-260litres.hard alkaline water. It's well planted and currently at a pH of around 8. I have three fish in the tank that I ideally want to keep in this tank, they are 2 synos and a bristlenose. I was told the syno can be kept with malawi and tanganyika lake chilids...but I think they prefer rocky tanks rather than planted, is this right would they not be happy in planted tank?If they would be happy what type of chilids are best?which ones will get on together? not alot of stright forward info on these on the net.

other option is to move syno to another tank, then I'd have dwarf gourami x 2, corys and a bristlenose. was going to add Co2 to help plants, and also lower pH to around 7.If I was to go with this option I'd like to add a few nice big ger fish around 20-30cm, along with some loach and a african butterfly. any ideas? (apart from anglefish)

A few issues here,
Both Cichlids you mention are more at home in a rocky tank but significantly they will demolish all but the toughest plants so to even consider keeping them in a fully planted tank such as you are planning would spell disaster.So it looks like option 2 is the more suitable, with your Synos relegated to your second tank. Synodontis catfish are mostly large-growing beligerent sorts of fish which, in my opinion, would have no place in a fully planted tank either.
A good exception to this rule is the Pygmy Synodontis - Synodontis Petricola...these are largely peaceful fish but ones which mostly only appear after lights out - at least mine do but having said that they will often make an appearance in the daylight hours, especially if Bloodworms are on the menu.

I don't have any experience of the Butterfly fish but I do know they're mostly at home in floating vegetation and are prolific jumpers too. They are also pretty quick when it comes to demolishing small fish like Neons etc. My preference for surface fish would be the Hatchets, there are quite a few varieties nowadays of these.

If your plan is for a heavily planted tank then this in itself is not conducive to larger stocking levels of fish but if you'd just like a 'compromise' my suggestion would be for you to look at Leeri Gouramis as a larger fish then stock up with whichever small-to mid size community fish like the less aggressive Barbs and Characins, I have a real weakness for Rainbowfish, nice colourful fish - always on the 'go'. These would be better suited to the sort of water you have too. Some of the smaller South American Cichlids such as the Aequidens (I think they've been reclassified now) Curviceps, Keyhole Cichlids and Nannacara Anomola are very good in planted tanks too, you might want to look at a pair Of Kribs but they can be rather aggressive if they decide to lay eggs, if you can locate Rams which have a history of being tank-bred as opposed to the Wild specimens these would be alright too, if a little shy at times.
Some to be thinking about for you there, no doubt other members will have alternative suggestions.
A word of warning...Bristlenoses are great fish but do not stop at just eating Algae, they are most partial to aquarium plants too, you might want to consider something along the lines of Otocinclus - entertaining little fish which do far less damage to the plants.
John

have ottos, forgot to mention them. bristlenose is in the tank few months and hasn't eaten any plants and has very little interest in them other than hiding behind them.loves his bogwood.

had a suspicion that the african cichlids would eat the plants or not be happy with them in the tank.will look into some of the other fish you mention.

/Thanks for info

with a ph like that your really setup for success if you do try Malawi cichlids or tanganykian's i've kept both and had to really try hard to get my ph up to ph9 for them although 7.5 -9.5 is their range..
for Malawi's this link might help
www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/f...compatibility_1.html

for my favorites at the mo, i'm mid stock up of this tank at present tanganyikan's www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages...e.php?article_id=143

or www.aquaticcommunity.com/cichlid/tanganyika.php

they are brilliant fish both types malawi's and tanganikans, both lively and colourful , john is right though plants wont last long in their tanks, but some aquascapes look great without plants..
Beware though as i've found out cichlids can be mighty addictive enjoy
Seamus

Decided to leave the african cichlids for another tank. have now compiled a list of possible fish;

Loaches are botia dario, or bengal loach or khuli or skunk .

Rainbows: Boesmani, Red tail, Madagascar

Cichlids (think these are all cichlids): Severum, Kribensis, Festivum, Geophagus, Sheepshead Acara, Blue acara, Cockatoo dwarf cichlid, convict cichlid, red-hump eartheater, firemouth,

peacock goby.

I know some of the cichlids can be a bit agressive, so was wondering if anyone has any ideas on possible stock list from these fish. Which loach would be best??

dwarf Gourami's I have are very big and are well able to defend themselves. have young paradise fish that are about 6cm at moment, not overly agressive at moment, but do like to chase each other, so would these be o.k back in main tank with some of the cichlids? would they all be able to defend them selves??

all idea and suggstion welcome!!

Festivums will destroy ANY plant and small fish,I lost a shoal of danios overnight.
Sheepshead acara(laetacara curviceps)are small and peaceful,but breed easy in a community and get a bit territorial when doing so,although usually just chasing other fish from their patch,nothing too violent.However they can spook easy and usually eat the eggs or fry in a community situation.
Thats all I've kept from the cichlids you listed.
From what I've heard convicts breed very easily and will cause a lot of grief to other tankmates.
Firemouths and blue acara are often kept together,say a couple of each,but,typically get boisterous when breeding.
Kribensis breed easy and are good parents,they too would be territorial.
Sorry,thats about all I can help with there,thats all I've experienced,or had friends experience.

Dave

thanks! that's a great help. Festivum definatly off list then. Have seen lovely pics of all the others so think it's just a case of finding out reasons to cross them off. I have read somewhere that the Blue acara will go to bite your hand when they are breeding.

I agree with Acara stay away from the festivums also i'd avoid convicts as can get quite territorial also Blue acaras can be a handful. what i'd suggest in the peaceful cichlid side is kribensis, keyhole cichlids, sheephead acara, apistogramma aggassi, apistogramma veija, cockatoo cichlids, apistogramma borelli actually most of the apistos are great in a community tank..but all cichlids fight for their part of the tank when breeding but with these species its generally just a chase to get off their patch rarely anything more.. enjoy
Seamus

Cichlids (think these are all cichlids): Severum, Kribensis, Festivum, Geophagus, Sheepshead Acara, Blue acara, Cockatoo dwarf cichlid, convict cichlid, red-hump eartheater, firemouth,
Another question (or two...)
Do you still plan to have a heavily planted tank? If you do you can most certainly also discount the Severums...mine eat every plant with the exception of some of the 'sturdier' Crypts and Anuibias(es). They even eat the 'supposedly' poisonous leaves of the Java Ferns! In earlier times all the 'Eartheaters' were classified as Geophagus although this has been opened up more now their habits remain the same...prodigious diggers, and pretty aggressive too. Blue Acaras will dig up plants as will, from time to time, Firemouths although with the latter I have had them which never dug up the gravel and others which most certainly did!
Sorry to sound so disparaging about your choices, but you have asked for opinions...really it's a bit of a 'rule of thumb' that Cichlids and plants don't really mix...you say 'no Angels' presumably you don't like them? Now there is a Cichlid which does go well in a planted tank.

peacock goby.

Here is another favourite of mine, brilliantly coloured fish, especially at breeding time and very good natured too - mostly - they can be a little bit 'nippy' but as they're quite slow movers most of the fish will be able to avoid them.

I don't know the Botia Dario but the Khuli will remain hidden for much of the time, they appear to like burying themselves in the gravel...take a look at the Striatum Loaches, quite attractive - and of course the inevitable Clown Loaches too.
I have a bit of a soft spot for the Congo Tetras, but this is all about your selection - not mine!

Just a few observations supplementary to the other answers you have been already given.

John

ps, yes Blue Acaras will try to attack anything (fingers included) which might come to close to their eggs - much could be said for almost all Cichlids - but the 'bites' from so (comparatively) small a fish would not cause you any concern...although I once saw some blood on the arm of a man who was removing a plant leaf of Angel eggs from where the pair had attacked the arm, but my belief was that he must have already had an earlier cut there which had then been reopened by the frenzied attack of the Angels.

looked for striatum loach on loaches on line. Botia Striata is nearest I could find. Is this the same? It eats small snails so will go on my list. Gonna leave khuli off, cause I don't know if I'd like to see a worm type fish while eating breakfast or dinner(tank in dining room). Will prob just buy the best looking of these I can find. sometimes they look nothing like their pictures in books or online.

Angels were my original plan for the large fish in the tank, but got one and it came with all sorts of illness, that spread. I ended up loosing anything under 5cm, which was most of my stock. So it's kinda put me off. But on the bright side now I can get that African Butterfly, If it'll suit what I end up getting, and I can now get something a bit less timid if I want. Would also like to get something a bit different....

So I've sort changed my list a little.

Biggest fish:
firemouth cichlid
Discus (aquarium Breed)
angelfish
pearl gourami
Moonlight Gourami

Going to take about 4-6 fish from this size, ones I most like at the moment are Firemouth, Discus. But any suggestions or warning are very welcome. Know the fire mouth wouldn't be good with the discus or angels, but would the gouramis cope?? Or should they jsut be kept as 4 firemouths? Or would I be better with Discus, I hear aquarium breed ones can cope with higher pH. Or should I just go back to Angels??? Not overly worried about the odd uprooting of plants from the firemouth as the dwarf gourami I already have do this every so often when making a bubble nest, they even prune the plants for me. Plants are not the main thing for me, any plants I have I got at reasonable prices, so not too worried if they get uprooted or are nibbled...just wouldn't like them completely devoured.

Smaller fish:
Sheepshead Acara
Kribensis
Cockatoo dwarf cichlid( males only, females too small)
Boesmani Rainbow
Peacock Goby

I think all of these are varily peaceful, but haven't seen any of them for sale, apart from some dull Kribsensis. Are these advailable at certain times or only in the bigger shops in Dublin? Do any of the three cichlids tend to hide away? find my rams are alittle too shy and timid.

Fish I already have are:
2 dwarf Gourami
2 neon rainbows
4 albino corys
2 paradise fish
2 synos
1 bristle nose
2 guppies
2 rams
1 blind cave tetra
any of these that are not suitable can be put in another tank, or found a new home

Going to keep pH at around 7-7.5, and temp at 25

any more suggestions or advice???