OOOg,
I really admire your dedication to your subject, I think if more people (myself included) did half as much studying beforehand there would be a lot less heartaches in the following times after the the stocking…

I think Striata Loaches are the same, a bit of a case of ‘horses for courses' really – different wholesalers use different names I think – the common name is the ‘Candy Striped Loach’ at least that’s what they’re called in the Baensch Atlas.

My guess is that the Angel you bought was almost certainly a far-Eastern bred one, this is only my opinion (but based on quite a lot of years’ observation) but you would appear to get more than you pay for with some far-Eastern fish (but Angels especially), it seems that internal parasites come free of charge with them!

Right, to your list…Discus and Angels are not supposed to be good tank-mates although each time I’ve kept them together they seemed to co-exist pretty well…
I think that as long as any Discus you might buy are well established and assuming you go for a Firemouth or two that they are quite small ones then the Discus will soon learn to ‘keep them in their place’.
I will add that every Discus I ever kept was in ordinary tap water, the theory is that they will live fine in it but will not breed. But after having said that I had a pair which would quite regularly lay eggs in tap water in England and one time the eggs were fertile – they actually hatched into ‘wrigglers’ but then the male decided that his progeny were eminently edible and scoffed the lot !!!
Anyway, that’s a digression, yes, tank-bred Discus will live in fairly hard water – I even recall it being said that a friend of the person writing that post had a friend who kept his Discus in (to use his words) “Liquid Concrete”.
Discus are kept in artificially warmer temperatures as many of the diseases and bacteria to which they are prone to suffer from cannot exist at these higher temperatures which also begs the question of whether their proposed tank-mates can tolerate the same? Most of the fish on your list will tolerate these temperatures, although I would have my concerns about the Firemouths, these are a Central American fish which would not really, I think, be able to cope with long periods of warmer water – I actually kept some (by way of an experiment) in an outdoors pond once – when I retrieved them in the Autumn they were fully fit and still coloured nicely too (and had grown appreciably).
I would also have concerns as to whether some Rainbows would like the warmer water either, although this is just a guess on my part, I have always kept them at lower temperatures – and with the pH pretty high too, I’m certain this is more like their natural surroundings.
Your submission about only having male Cacatouides because females are too small might well backfire, if you can find some adult females you will have more contented males who will colour up more nicely due to being ‘forever’ (or so it seems to me) displaying to them.

I have seen almost all the fish on your list available in Forum sponsors’ tanks at some time or another so I would suggest you keep an eye on their postings telling of their ‘new arrivals’ and plan your visits accordingly. You really wouldn’t want to be putting all your stock in at one time anyhow, my suggestion would be, if you go down the Discus route, to get them first, settle them in for a good few weeks and start to grow and then gradually build up your stock thereafter…

Now to a big word of caution for you…the larger Cichlids you propose getting will get large – especially the Discus – and when that happens they will either have to be passed on or, and here’s the danger, you might just find yourself having to get more and more tanks to accommodate them – and all the new ‘discoveries’ you will doubtless make along the way…I’m afraid that once it gets hold of you Fishkeeping can become a MOST addictive hobby or, to plagiarise the greatest Soccer manager who ever lived, it isn’t a matter of life and death – it’s more important than that…

John

Am I reading between the lines right in thinking that you think Firemouths and discus might co-exist happily together. Would a pair of each be o.k? One book I have states 23-27C as Fire mouths temp range and 25-28 for discus, so mayb 25-26 might suit, this is the usual tank temp anyway. have raised it a once to 28 with no effect on fish I already have, but this was only for a few days??

Going to draw up a wee chart and write down temps and water types an where they originate from etc. to try to clear a few wee things up. would like to try to keep fish mainly from one region.

Would not be stocking over the amount for all fish fully grown, but will prob end up buying few more tanks in next fews years...will just have to work on other half. The bug has already got me!!

Think Cockatoo is off list then as the females(2.5cm in one book, 5cm in the other??) would prob eventually end up as food for the bigger fish.

Think Cockatoo is off list then as the females(2.5cm in one book, 5cm in the other??) would prob eventually end up as food for the bigger fish.
I'll start with your last point...I have a female right now which is over 1-1/2" now and it's still growing - the only real fish to fear on your list would be the Butterfly.
However, another Apisto which is nearly as colourful and a good bit larger is the A. Macmasteri, I have a pair the female of which is over 2" long and the male is appreciably larger still. These are well over a year old now (a good age for Apistos).

With the Discus/Firemouth debate I am being pretty guarded in the suggestion that they would live happily together, I have tried to (perhaps not very successfully) infer that they might just co-exist but would never actually go as far as to make an out-and-out recommendation. It isn't a pairing I would choose to make...I am a little unhappy with your suggestion to keep the Discus at only 25-26 where the suggested level is more like in the low thirties - your short term rise to 28 might really be as low as you should consider keeping them at - but, hey, rules are made to be broken and as I always say: 'the fish don't read the same books as we do'.
'Suck it and see' is perhaps the right phrase here...but if you do keep a very close watching brief, you would be contravening some of the established 'rules' - but as stated 'Rules are........'.

Going to draw up a wee chart and write down temps and water types an where they originate from etc. to try to clear a few wee things up. would like to try to keep fish mainly from one region.

This is a very good idea of yours, I and others here will be most interested in hearing your final selections and how you arrived at them.

John

Just remembered what I wanted to add, your Paradise Fish will be ill at ease at higher temperatures too, they are from China and are better suited to temperatures in the low 70s - I even have some at room temperature - they've been at that for over a year now with no ill-effect but they mightn't like being at the higher end of the spectrum too much.

Finally I've made some decisions!!!

Firemouths!!can't resist that red throat! (think I've figured out a way to stop them pulling plants, if the ones I get are that way inclined)

So how did I decide...well I've come to the conclusion that if I was to keep discus I'd have to get rid of most of my fish as they couldn't cope with high temps. keeping discus at lower temp. just seems to be looking for hassle, ie. illness. Angels are out because they seem to come with disease unless bought from a breeder or excellent source, have found more info reguarding this on net. (although, saying this they're prob the best fish for my tank) and Gourami's, they don't interest me enough to have them alone as main fish.

So going to keep them with a pair of Kribensis, and mayb some sheepshead acara, and some from the apisto family...for these I'm going to keep an eye out for a while till I see something I'm really impressed by, would also need to look into them a bit more. Is there any sites that offer good info on the apisto's?? anyway won't be getting too many of these because think they'll get chased alot when the firemouths are in breeding form.

going to get four loaches,from one of the following varieties Botia striata, bengal, or Dario.

also going to get 2 or 3 more cuckoo synodontis to keep the one I have a bit happier.

of the other fish I have I'm going to keep
the mystery syno, the bristle nose,
ottos, dwarf gourami, and the albino corys in the main tank.

paradise fish are going to put in smaller tank, but think I'll eventually need to split them, as I have my suspicions that they're both males. Blind cave is also going to in this tank, on trial, to see if he can cope with paradise fish.

Don't know what I'm going to do with guppies and neon rainbows. rainbows might be o.k in main as they're fully grown.

also like the idea of keeping Boesmani Rainbows...but I'll see how the cichlids go first.

wondering a bit about all the cichlids. know a pair of firemouths need 60cm lenght of tank when breeding, and know that the rest need a territory when breeding.I have loads of caves and hide aways in the tank, so will they just work out their own territories and take ownership of certain hide outs, or is this going to cause fights and deaths?? Would it be better just to keep the firemouths with some mid-top water dwellers???

also wondering how long do firemouths usually live in aquariums?? how long do the other cichlids live??

are adult or nearly adult firemouth advailable anywhere for sale???


So I've ended up choosing not very big fish, but hopefully they'll be big enough to make a visual impact. Think they'll certainly be interesting to watch!


Thanks to you all for all the info and advice... If you think I'm making a big mistake please tell me your reasons!!Would be better to know than have a disaster. also still have loads of questions so If any of ye can answer them please do!!

Thanks again for the info recieved so far!!

Orla

Hello all,
Thought I'd fill ye all in on whats happened with my fishies!

Last week or the week before I purchased 4 yo-yo loaches, as they were only ones, of my choosen 3 I could find. (If anyone comes across Bengals or Botia Dario, let me know, think I'd like a few of these too.)yo-yo are well settled in, and so funny to watch. they have lots of fights amoung themselves and actually pin each other down by the tails.but no harm is done. They make a clicking noise when eating. Haven't seen any little snails creeping around since their arrival.

This week I purchased two blue acara and two of what I think is cichlasoma spilurum. The acaras are around 5cm, one of the cichlasoma spil is a tiny bit bigger than the acara and the second is bigger again(8cm). couldn't resist the sparkles of the blue acara, and the really pretty blue eye of the cichlasoma.

gonna move them into big tank late next week. will see how it goes with plants. don't mind now if they pull them all up, have decided to change alot of the plants I have to different ones. When I'm planting them will plant them singularly in pots and hope for the best after that.

List of other fish has also changed a bit.
would like to get cichlasoma Salvini next, if I can. not sure about firemouths anymore, will think a bit longer about them. Seen them in few shops and was bit unimpressed, but I know they would prob colour up better when put in big tank with hiding places etc. and better again when breeding.

have also seen images of yellow convicts on the web, mainly on american sites. does anyone know if these are advailable in Ireland??

also got Herotilpia multispinosa (Rainbow cichlid) in mind, but I have read that the aquarium breed ones have lost alot of the colour that the wild ones have? are wild ones imported??

so, that's it for now. A lot of my research went out the window, and I ended up going for what I liked the look of (love blue things!). can't wait till they grow up to be big fishies and see what happens. any ideas on how long that'll take??

so will post again when cichlids have been moved to their permanent home and settled in. will be interesting to see how they get on with the gourami's, who think they rule the roost

Aquapaws in Barna have had Yellow convicts occassionally and also yellow fiemouths, the rainbows are available put together a wishlist and email Aquapawa on their site the lads have gotten virtually everything i've ever ordered from them it might be worth the time.... web address is aquapaws.ie/ Gavin and Peter will be only too happy to help
Seamus

Hi, we have firemouths, salvini and bengal loaches!! If you like blue fish should have true blue dempseys in a few weeks!!

id blue dempsey the same as jack dempsey...grows to 30cm??if so I'm afraid it might be a bit too big for me.

They get about 20cms or so. they would go well with your other centrals!!!!

I've just looked them up again in few books and net, 17-20cm seems to be the size alright...don't know where I got thirty. think I had it in my head not to get them cause of their reputation of being very agressive...but one site says this is mainly because they were one of the first cichlids introduced into aquarium hobby, and as time went on their reputation got exaggerated, but they may not be as agressive as some of the newer ones. one book says they go well with salvini, firemouth and convicts. so your right I'll definatly have to consider them.

so maybe. (totally gonna need a bigger tank for all these in few years!)how long do cichlids, like I have, generally live??how long does it take for them to get from 5cm-15cm, generally?? Could you keep just one jack dempsey??or would they not like that and loose colour?

yellow firemouth??googled them and got one not very good image. are they the same as normal just with yellow throat instead of red. or are they yellow with red throat??

another thing I want to make sure of...are cory's gonna be o.k with these cichlids or will I have to move them??