JohnH wrote: I think the general fishkeeping public deserves far more in the way of evidence that it does fulfill all the claims made for it, after all, it isn't cheap. I think I must share Sean's scepticism here, I find it difficult to believe that any product can be such a complete answer to all tank setting-up headaches...
If it really is so good then surely documented evidence could be produced to support the claims made by the sellers?
The average newcomer starting up their new tank from scratch deserves better evidence, in my humble opinion.
I look forward to being convinced that my scepticism too is unfounded.
John
What evidence is presented with most fish medications and treatments on the market, John did you research the last dechlorinated you bought. What were the findings? Did you find exhaustive trials and technical explanations of how the product did what it claimed? I doubt it.
What are the contents and active ingredients of most WaterLife products?
Scepticism is the natural reaction to any new product, but in the absence of the information we would all like to see, testing is the only way to get over that. I would be much happier if the sceptics tried the product and then gave an opinion. There was no one more sceptical than I was and just as interested in how it works, but at least I tried it.
Anyone here that has tried it has had a positive experience, if anyone has not I would be very interested to hear about that to.
I don't want to appear that I am promoting the product, I have no association with it or the sellers and as already stated, I personally do not use it on an ongoing basis. I would just be more interested to hear from people that have used it to good or bad affect rather than follow links to 297 page technical documents that are extremely boring and irrelevant to the topic, as far as I could see or read about peoples scientism. It would be irresponsible not to be sceptical of a new product, but on the basis of various users results here, go and try it before knocking it.
Fishowner wrote: ... Also there seems to be a cloak of secrecy around how and why it works.
... However I have one key issue with the product,If I start using this product now to get my fish off to a flying start,does it mean I have to continue to use it every month,and if I discontinue using it will my fish's health go down as a result (it claims it will but I wonder is this the reason the product is out there,to produce regular customers who need the maintaince kit monthly).
In its advantage,I would say that organic aqua is probably a very useful aid to have if you need to quarantine a fish and dont have the quarantine tank up and running (as is my case most of the time ).
Gavin
I suspect the "cloak of secrecy" is to protect the source, as the product is made of natural ingredients I imagine that there is no process or chemical to patent, therefore if the ingredients were freely available any manufacuter could be producing their own version.
You can revert a tank back from organic aqua to traditional methods at any time, any tank I have used it in has been reverted back "naturally", by that I mean I did not set up a new cycled tank to transfer the fish to, I simply stopped adding OA, increased water changes again and stopped washing out the filter in tap water, allowing the filter to mature with "normal" bacteria again. I have had no problems, however I would suggest you keep an eye on the tank while it is changed over and allow a good 4 to 6 weeks for the tank to be established again before increasing the stock load dramatically.
Will the fish’s health suffer when you stop using OA? On the one hand if they do it suggests that OA was doing a good job! However my only experience of fish health suffering post OA is on fish that were not well in the first place. As mentioned in previous posts, sick fish seems to improve in OA, while not actually cured (depending on the illness or course) they show less symptoms and stress in OA.
Using OA to set up a Q tank has two benefits, one tank available instantly and secondly as already mentioned it has a palliative effect.
This video was linked in the original thread 14 months ago:
For anyone that wants to see how the fish are doing in Organic Aqua, see video link below also posted in Fish Videos section. The first tank and the tank of Corydoras schultzei which appears at 55 seconds are two of the three OA tanks I am running. The first was a standard biologically filtered tank that was converted and the schultzei tank was a tap water job.
I think anyone woul agree that the stocking levels were testing the product to the extreme, I can't remember the size of the first tank shown, but the Corydoras schultzei featured at the 55 second mark were in an 18" tank and there were 50 of them!!! I DO NOT RECOMMEND stocking levels like that with or without OA - that was a test and the fish were constantly monitored for about 6 weeks. They thrived, but I split them up into other tanks once I was satisified with the test.
Daragh_Owens wrote:
[
What evidence is presented with most fish medications and treatments on the market, John did you research the last dechlorinated you bought. What were the findings? Daragh[/quote]
There is 3 ways of removing NH3 and NO2 mechanical(aeration) chemical (so called organic ) and organic (bacteria in your bio filter.
Sodium Chlorite is an oxidiser(not salt i.e sodoum chlorine ) is used by Ekk Will (this is a top secret they never refer to it as Sodium Chlorite they call it always quote "super shit" its stored in a 4 meter chemical dosing chamber and dosed into all of the freshwater systems (except Malawi's as it does not work at high pH) they have no biological filters quote "we run on totally organic solution" "
When I went for an interview I mention sodium chloirte they where very surprise I suspected super shite was sodium chlorite and ask me to keep it a secret , ironically if you google "sodium chlorite aqaurims" you come up with Ekk will business plan...bit odd.
Besides whats this about. Organic used in a new aqaurium and doing less water changes
When I set up a new freshwater tank it fully stocked in 48 hours (first 12hours one test fish) after 12 hours I add some medium from an existing trickle filter.
Water change: Marines never never never
Malawi 50% once a year as it takes on a yellow colour without a w/C I am serious considering a tunze ozone injection with O3 immersed sensor to accurately maintain a level which is beneficial opposed to toxic.
A bet chemical Steve some time does water changes when he is not rapping?
I have been using the organic aqua in my 90L for two years now and could'nt recomend it highly enough. In the two years nothing else has gone into the tank but organic aqua. I hav'nt bought any medications dechlorinators or anything else.one pack costing €13 a month. My water is clear,filter much cleaner, substrate cleaned up after a few months of using it. I hav'nt gravel cleaned in two years.I am not as knowledgeable as many on the site, but for me Organic Aqua works and I think the longer its used the better the tank is.
In fairness no one is doubting its effectiveness however at €13 every month ie. €156 a year,its abit of a catch 22 senario,you need to keep using it to see the benefits. As for whether is natural or not,thats I think isnt in doubt,at least with water we cycle etc, its somewhat natural. But ultimately the appliance of Science is what this product is. A good product that works,but whether its the spectics in us,the old school fishkeepers, or just the general fishkeeper who likes his weekly water changes etc,there will always be people who prefer to use natural methods. (And dont be giving out to me for say adding meds like Anti whitespots,esha etc arent natural!).
Everyone has a different prospective on these things,what works for one doesnt work for another. Still in all, I reckon that it is a good product for a quarantine tank that Im going to keep a supply of just in case.
HI folks,
while i am reading this with great interest.
I find myself at a loss.
Sean while i have great respect for you and your record speaks for it self.
but you have not put forward one post from anywhere that has said that Organic aqua is dangerous or does anything other than that stated.
While i can find many post on the net highlighting problems on almost every product available to us Aquaist. i have to say those about Organic aqua are noticeable by their absence.
i am a simple person who likes clear and simple answers the majority are those are in favour of organic aqua.
but like Gavin says the limiting factor is cost but with water meters looming this will fast become the main stay of the hobby!
I have followed this thread with interest and enjoyed reading the different viewpoints.
Organic aqua is like a get out of jail free card. The biggest problem for new tank owners is incorrect feeding leading to bio overload and fish suffering and deaths. Setting up a new tank requires getting all the parameters right, which is not that easy.
In the past i helped many people with new set ups by supplying established tank water and old filter media etc. but it was always a headache and fish died from overfeeding and ammonia and nitrite spikes. More lectures, water changes and polyfilters later the tank (and feeding regime) would settle somewhat and eventually prosper when the new owner developed some knowledge and experience.
Lately i have helped set up several tanks with organic and so far they are an unqualified success story. None of the usual mayhem or late night emergency calls. Fill tank with tap water, bring to correct temperature, add organic then fish 5 mins later, and they immediately settle and look to be fed. (crucially, even overfeeding is coped with to a large extent).
I am probably a traditional type fishkeeper and normally avoid new miracle cure-alls as novelties that are generally useless, but i unreservedly recommend organic for beginners setups. Try it for a month and then let the normal cycle take over if you like.(i have done this seamlessly)
I agree here with Derek, as i have done the same myself numerous times also.The health treatment that comes with this product can be used on its own with 'normal' biological filtration and i highly recommend doing so.
I think slagging off a product (that helps new fish keepers enjoy their fish without any hassles), isn't helping anybody.
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) and organic (bacteria in your bio filter.
, ironically if you google "sodium chlorite aqaurims" you come up with Ekk will business plan...bit odd. 
