Discus not well

hi all,

So I haven't updated my tank recently, but I got my 6 Discus about 6 weeks ago now. They are settling in fine. All were eating very healthily.

Friday evening/Sat morning, I noticed one was acting funny. Nothing too alarming, but just not looking right. I did my water change on Saturday (see other thread). I have kept an eye on him/her. I don't think s/he has eaten since Saturday... unless of course she sneaks it in when I'm not looking / not particularly around feeding time!

She still looks ok... but tends to either (a) hide near the bottom or (b) go very close to the top ... the rest of the Discus are happily searching for food / annoying each other / etc.

any ideas?


here's a photo... the only thing I will say is that I think there may be more of those black spots on her than there used to be (but there may not be!!) and I'm not sure if I'm imagining it, but I think she may have faded a bit... but not much if she has. On her right side, I think there is what I thought was a spot, but turns out to be a small cluster of those dark spots... I can't get a picture of them as she won't pose.

Ever since I got my 3 new (larger) discus, the smaller ones have done that.

What I did last week was got some tall plants for them to hide and feel safe in. And I drop some food in there (the larger discus can't reach it)

Out of the 5 small 3 are now coming out at feeding time. Takes time to adjust to the peking order.

But I'm no expert, I can only tell you what I've done and how they react.


The smaller ones are still very pale, but that's because they are not yet old enough to show their full colour.

The black spots are called peppering which are very common to Pigeon Blood type discus. Others say that that a dark substrate brings out this "peppering" on them. While other say it doesnt matter what color the substrate is, because pigeon blood discus will have peppering, be it a liitle or all over the body. I believe the latter, in my opinion.

Regarding your discus not looking right, i suggest you keep an eye on it and look for signs of ill health..im still on the learning process myself and sometimes when you think you've done everything according to the book -then something happens...that's where interweb comes handy.

Peppering is normal in pigeon blood based strains. However the colour of the surroundings will affect the amount of peppering.
My red pigeon blood pair will show peppering in main tank, but when i had them in their breeding tanks with all sides and bottom painted white you could not see any peppering at all. The more dark stuff or low light the more peppering. Main answer from advanced forums on any issue with fish is to increase the water changes for a few days and see. And first step is to test your water (even if the others "are fine" )

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, the peppering seems normal but thought maybe an increase might signify stress or sickness.

The 6 were introduced together. Having thought about it more, it's about 4 weeks ago, not 6. The pecking order is not quite established. They are still working it out. I have 2 discus of each variety so it's easy to watch them and work out who's bullying who. Up to late last week this one was still picking on others. I was actually starting to think one of my Blue diamonds was going to be picked up in by all of them.

Physically she looks fine right now. Apart from her positioning in the tank, me not seeing her eating and a general sluggishness, I can't see anything wrong. I might be overreacting but I have a feeling.

Water parameters all similar to what they have been (gh/Kh 4,ph 6.3,27.5degrees,0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, about 15 nitrates) and nothing has changed significantly since they were introduced to the tank.

I'll do a water change tomorrow.

Thanks

baan wrote:

I might be overreacting but I have a feeling.

I believe in gut feelings

Btw, are there planarias in your tank? I saw some white little things at the bottom right of your pic. Just curious

tetdiscus wrote:

I believe in gut feelings

Yes, so do I!

tetdiscus wrote:

Btw, are there planarias in your tank? I saw some white little things at the bottom right of your pic. Just curious

Am, no... not to my knowledge! I've just done some googling, as I'd never heard of them and I don't think so. The white little things in the photo are actually a pattern on a leaf on the background poster of the tank.

just to let you know baan,

One of my bullied discus that was shying away from eveyone passed away the other day, I'm keeping a closer eye on the other two now,
But as far as I can tell they are not eating. The bigger discus are a bit rough on them

sorry to hear that Darkslice.

I did that water change on Tuesday evening. Last evening she ate a small amount of bloodworms, but unlike the others, she didn't eat much and later on was not foraging for food around the tank.

It's a step to have her eat anything, so fingers crossed.

If I thought it was bullying, I'd think about removing her. But from watching the tank, I'm not sure she is being bullied more than any of the others. Unless she is more sensitive to it. Which is possible. Or maybe she is not liking the situation where a few of them are a bit boisterous... I think they are trying to become the leader, but it's not settled yet! All of mine are roughly the same size. once is slightly bigger and, if anything, seems to be more bullied than a bully!

I don't have another tank to move them so, so I'm afraid my attitude has to be - if they die -then they die.
I really hope they wont but I cant force feeding them.

The tank was going though about 2,000 litres a week. (about a 40% water change per day)
but now its down to 500 litres per week, (66% per week)

So I know the water was fine, and the other fish are perfect.
But the temp has dropped to 28 Degrees so I need to check the heaters, (One might have failed)

@baan. Have you tried increasing the temp to 29-30? (They seem to eat more when water is warmer).And perhaps deworm them (kusuri dewormer plus). Only a suggestion? its just ive done this before and it worked.

@darkslice, sorry to hear the news about your discus.

thanks to all for suggestions so far.

I've upped the temperature... running now between 29-30 and I put the dewormer in after w/c on Friday evening. That says leave it 4 days before a change, so I'll do another change on Wed evening.

I'm not seeing much difference in her, she is still not really eating when I'm watching. But it's well over 2 weeks now since I noticed her not eating, so I'm guessing that she must be eating something?! The others are happy to eat bloodworms from plant tweezers that I hold into the top of the tank. She will come over but does not eat. She also doesn't eat the granules that I am generally feeding them and I can see all of the others eating. Later on, once I go and sit down and watch, the other 5 discus go into foraging mode and go around the tank looking for scraps but she doesn't.

I've noticed that she seems to be trying to scratch her left side against plants/wood. I can't see anything physically wrong but she is definitely rubbing that side against plants and sometimes against the wood. I'd be afraid she'll injure herself but I don't know why she is doing it. She seems to be scratching around her eye/gills... I'm thinking parasite or infection or something???

Here colouring is still fine - no physical issues that I can see. Water parameters are exactly as they were above.

diskuszucht-stendker.de/gb/BasicInformat....HilfreicheTipps.pdf suggests:
If your discus fish have ectozoons (spots on their skin or the fish start rubbing themselves) we recommend treating the fish with salt water.
The easiest way is to dissolve 500 grams of iodine-free table salt in 15 litres of water from the aquarium (in a clean bucket without residue from cleaning agents). When the water turns clear (after c. 5 minutes) you can place the affected fish in the saline solution. Take the fish out again after 30-60 seconds and put them back in the aquarium. All ectozoons on the mucous membranes of the fish will remain in the salt water and the immune system of the fish will be better able to deal with the parasites remaining in the aquarium. NB: never leave fish in the salt bath for longer than 50 seconds!

Anyone ever done this, or have ye other suggestions which might help here?

Hi Baan:

Just to make sure, did you add all your discus at the same time ? Or was that particular one there first ?

I had kind of the same situation with one of my male, as he refused to eat after i added 2 other pair. Apparently that fish was the dominant one and got kicked out by an other male making him having some kind of depression. That fish did not eat at all for about 2 month which got me very worried.

Then i decided to get a breeding/hospital tank. I also did a salt dip but my measurement where not the same as stendker advise and it was for a lot longer (arouind20 to 30 min). But i am confident in their recommendation nonetheless

Then i left that male and his female in the breeding tank, and they breed after a week or so. Now they are both back in my main tank. He is still a bit shy, but he does eat all the time, and is one of the first to show up during feeding time.

I know how worried one can get when you see your fish not eat for a while !

Just to say that i would recommend you to get an hospital tank asap (80l max for a pair of discus is enough), do a salt dip and try to keep him alone for a while, until he does feed properly. If you do so, i would recommend putting it in an isolated room in order not to disturb and stress the fish.

I hope you find this useful, and please, if you can, post more pictures, and keep us updated.

Inza.

thanks Inza.

Watching from afar yesterday evening, I saw her pecking so I think she must be eating a bit when I'm not watching.

(By the way, I keep saying "She", but I don't know her gender!)

Yes, I had a feeling that I was going down the hospital tank route. My other half is not going to like that! However, I'll probably get away with it if I call it a hospital tank. If I call it a breeding tank I might as well move out...

I'll see if I can pick up a full set from someone selling on here and go from there.

an hospital tank is relatively inexpensive to set up. 80l tank with no light, sponge filter and a 50w heater should do ^^just keep your sponge in the main tank for a while or do wc every day.
And it is better to have something to treat a sick fish rather than having him die and possibly contaminate the whole tank.

agreed... and, I was getting to this conclusion myself, but you've helped me along the road!

Actually, I have an old smaller tank at home that will probably do the job, so going to see what state that is in and see if some of the equipment work... might not be a big deal at all.

Well the smallest one passed away yesterday.He's just terrified of the larger discus, I've moved the other 2 to the shrimp tank in the sump. They are in bad shape, completely scared of everything including me.

Well let's see what happens.

I feel for you.
Lost the count on how many discus i lost in the 14 months i have been doing this
I did add 4 younger ones in my big tank this week and the big guys were too rough on them => had to take them out. There have been instance in which i have had small and bigger together with no issues. But I'd say now when you have a display tank only focus on adults or sub-adults.

yep, think your right stephan.
When the smaller ones are big enough and don't die on me ill put them back in.