My Sump

[img][img]http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p18/russellie/SUMPLINKcopy.jpg[/img]

Here is my 40 gal sump alongside Main tank'
Schuran overflow to sump
rest is self explanitory I hope[/img]

wow

I'm very impressed.

Monty

It's extreemly simple to make will show you how if anyone interested
I Even have my RO feed to sump & with the overflow it means a constant slow water change and all perams stay stable

I would love such a system but can see the expression on my wife's face when even thinking about it

Monty

[img][img]http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p18/russellie/topsump.jpg[/img]
Top View : which has a cover at all times[/img]

Hi Russell

That looks very impressive. I am building an extension onto my house this year and investing in a 1000 litre tank for my African cichlids.

I have no experience in using sumps at present. In your oppinion would a sump be a good idea for a tank of this size and would you recommend one in this case.

Cheers

Mick

Certainly any sump is good as it increases the water volume. so say 1000 gal tank would if it had say 100 gal sump increase the total water volume and also make the perams more stable.

If set up right it is a pleasure to maintain.

The tank is clear of heaters and anything else you may have as it all goes into the sump!!!
Planing is the ultimate, when you think you have got it right check again,

Very Impressive filter system. Would love something like that on my Vision 450 and get rid of the heaters etc.

Daragh

that is superb can you post more pictures

Post a blueprint/diagram in the D.I.Y. section.

That looks the business alright.I also think it would be great to see the plans,etc in the DIY section.

None of you ever had a sump? I am surprised. I would hide it under the tank though, nicely out of sight. Easy on the eye and once my wife can't see it, she generally doesn't care. You'd have to drill the tank though.

None of you ever had a sump? I am surprised. I would hide it under the tank though, nicely out of sight. Easy on the eye and once my wife can't see it, she generally doesn't care. You'd have to drill the tank though.

I agree you have to drill the main tank, using the siphon system( square box with siphon action and drilled hole that runs down to the sump) is dangerous it been used since the early eighties on marines and when fail es floods the main tank until the sump runs dry.

This design was subsided in the mid 80´s (marines!!!)with the outflow from the tank falling into a wet/dry trickle filter as if the bio balls are "under water" they will take the oxygen 80:20 ration filter:fish as opposed to the wet dry filter 100:0 outside air
and 100:0 fish: filter i.e the filter does not rob the O2 (very important at high dicus temp), although it really does not matter in this case as they are understocked so it is not really an issue.

As far as cosmetic, if this is in a fish house its easy to manage as you dont have to bend down, in a living room/public place, could be mistaken for a washing machine.

I must say the pipe work is very professional

How can you be sure that the outflow (which i assume is by gravity) is roughly the same volume as the pump rate.

Does the out flow ever come out too slow, i.e the pump then runs dry.

I assume the part on the glass that is drilled is measured very accurately in case there is a power failure (to prevent a flood).

What does the outflow box do, i always thought there was just a pipe at the outflow leading to the sump.

How can you be sure that the outflow (which i assume is by gravity) is roughly the same volume as the pump rate.

Does the out flow ever come out too slow, i.e the pump then runs dry.

I assume the part on the glass that is drilled is measured very accurately in case there is a power failure (to prevent a flood).

What does the outflow box do, i always thought there was just a pipe at the outflow leading to the sump.

Before I forget, is that a picture of you or Micheal. J. Fox. :?:

The output flow will be in direct portion to the diameter and the "head" of water, i.e the slightly higher level in the main tank in relation to the siphon box, the pump never respects the siphon, in other words it keeps pumping at the same rate till it runs dry, if the siphon become clog the "head" will rise by a couple of CM to then restart a good flow, if the siphon gets to clog ed the head rises higher than the rim of the tank, or the pump sump area runs dry, the problem with the siphon system is an AIR LOCK, this will cause an catastrophic failure,

The other concern is if the head is to big, when the electric goes of it will back flow and possible flood the sump, although this is not a problem if the sump is big.

Another concern is if you are away on holiday for 2 weeks, is through evaporation the water level will fall in the sump, I would not risk a ball and valve system(like in a toilet) as if that fails it can do even more damage.

Adapting you own tank in the living room:

The advantage of having a normal external eheim pump that is tee off so that some of the water goes into an ice cream trickle filter in the hood is that it never goes wrong and when the electic goes off the bacteria breath as oppose the the "submerge bio balls" which drown.

Jack I think you missunderstand. with an overflow box you do not drill the tank.
The schuran box sits on the tank lip. a suction is created causing water to flow into one side over an internal wier and flow out the other side'causing a continuos suction similar to syphoning water via a pipe.
There are two types, one for up tp 2000 ltrs ph and the other for 4000 ltrs.
Anaswering the next question

I run a 2000ltr ph. so the pump I use is an eheim 1250. so it can never put in a larger quantity than that.

The outflow is governed by the water level in the tank.
If there is a power outage and the pump cuts out. a vacume is created in the box keeping both sides full of water as the pump cuts back in the suction restarts so you can never overfow.
A very clever innovation. mine has run for 7 years with no problems.

[img][img]http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p18/russellie/SCHURAN.jpg[/img]

As you can see the DROP between the water level in tank and the outlet of the box. simply the same as syphoning water from yor tank. it only needs a fraction difference in hight to create a suction and the flow of water keeps the suction maintained.
Confused!!!!!!
Believe me its the best way if you dont have a drilled tank.

As for the bio balls these have a ceramic insert and give it it's Biological properties, entirely different to a trickle tower principle .
I have created a weir on the final flow into the sump to re-oxegenate the water also an airstone ensures plenty of aggitation before return to tank.[/img]

Hi Russell,

I'm not getting into the discussion about the pros and cons of a sump here but draw them a map or else you will be held responsible for a lot of flooded living rooms
Your pictures are good but a schematic drawing would be best before our DIY boys start cutting glas

Holger

[img][img]http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p18/russellie/SCHURAN.jpg[/img]

As you can see the DROP between the water level in tank and the outlet of the box. simply the same as syphoning water from yor tank. it only needs a fraction difference in hight to create a suction and the flow of water keeps the suction maintained.
Confused!!!!!!
Believe me its the best way if you dont have a drilled tank.

As for the bio balls these have a ceramic insert and give it it's Biological properties, entirely different to a trickle tower principle .
I have created a weir on the final flow into the sump to re-oxegenate the water also an airstone ensures plenty of aggitation before return to tank.[/img]

The siphon system is the second option, from an design point of view, or in the case of an already set up system the first option, its a bit like if you already have a car, you plug the hands free into the cigarette lighter, if you buy a new car, you get it factory fitted, the danger with your first post is you did not say this was the best option for an already set up tank, as say if there wass a guy viewing your post with less knowledge he may by pass getting a tank drilled, and think your system is the first option.

The volcanic gravel has more surface area for bacteria, but lets not argue media here, lets argue location, all the nitrification is taken part under water, its an early 80¨s marine design.

An wielder in Shankill, that lives quite near to Derek Doyle had a marine tank exactly the same as your even the dreaded syphon system, the very first marine society meeting of Ireland (mid 80`s) which was advertise in all the shops 2 month prior, which I am surprise you did not know about was in the Tara hotel in south Dublin, half way through the first meeting Dave's wife called the hotel reception to tell him his garage was all flooded. He had to leave quickly, it was a great laugh.

The weir help to re oxygenate the water, but that then re admitting you need to as the have just taken 80% of it out due to the drowning trickle filter.

:roll:

I will transfer the remaining points to the DIY section.

But First to clear up the knockers & doubters.

This system has neen in operation for many years. especialy UK Holland And America and is a standard method if you do not have a drilled tank

Second if any one wishes to view the system they are welcome to drop over any time have a cuppa & chat

Third & most important I will give you 100 euro if the system fails. and you can switch it on & off as many times as you like

That's called putting your money where your mouth is!!!!!!!!!!!

Nearly forgot please read the thread

The sump is 48x18x15 holds 44 gals .
Evaperation is negligable
I have been away for a week and the water in the sump has only dropped 3 inches= 5 gals
Also I said I had an RO drip feed to sump and the sump has it's own overflow system to waste!!!!!!!!!

Please continue this discussion in the DIY section

[img][img]http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p18/russellie/SCHURAN-1.jpg[/img]
As you can see you only need a fraction difference in height between the two to create a suction

I will transfer the remaining points to the DIY section.

This system has neen in operation for many years. especially UK Holland And America and is a standard method if you do not have a drilled tank

Third & most important I will give you 100 euro if the system fails. and you can switch it on & off as many times as you like

That's called putting your money where your mouth is!!!!!!!!!!!

Nearly forgot please read the thread
Also I said I had an RO drip feed to sump and the sump has it's own overflow system to waste!!!!!!!!!

First of all I am not insulting your system, in america and Holland in the early eighties this would be a complement to have one like this (assuming it was too late to drill the tank.) The evaporation of 3 inches a week seems about right, that's a lot of water, you R/O dripping in is O.K and as its discus with such a high level of evaporation, one does not want to be adding copious amount of minerals and salts that are in tap water, in a marine of African tank, this could be benifiel though has it would buffer the tank.

I cant post this in the DIY section as the view-es are unlike to view my argument, for and against,(I am sure you would not want that???) I was referring to the siphon water water leaving the tank will raise the water in the sump, and not a true siphon from the rigid white pipe that returns water from the pump.

In a forum, is pretty normal to have a degree of battering provided its civil, I hope I did not come over as rude? :roll:

At the end of the day, I feel I have a moral obligation to inform the viewer that are less knowledge, that this tank is function able at this low stock density, and if the electric goes off will not flood as you made the sump large, but............if starting from scratch, there is more modern designs about, especially in relation to not drowning the trickle filter (designing the biological filter that has to take the oxygen from the tank water, and when the electric goes off dies, although the dieing off rate would be slower in you sump than in a closed seal external filter"

No offence meant or taken. I enjoy a good Banter. thats what forums are for.
The most important thing is a stable system and when you find what works for you stick with it. this works for me fine and it runs itself. I have the kuxury of a 22 ft fish house/ sunroom so running it alongside the main tank saves a lot of bending down. makes life simple for me

Russel you do have a stable system, I wont not change anything except before the water reaches the sump its go through a plastic box full of volcanic pea size gravel although at your stocking levels its not really necessary, although Holgar has a point about the sump location, it depend on the convenience if you have a stiff back where it is is fine, never say never, CD on music worked for me for years, so why change, dont fix what is not broken, finally one of my clients wanted an ipod dock, I did not know even what it was, being in the HiFi business I dad to learn, my baby stood on half of my music collection, and ruined it I finally got a ipod, and realise what a mistake I was making earlier not wanted to change from CD.

Keep up the good work, russel, it has been a long time since we have had a new member that starts with a new post that gets over 230 views in a couple of days, the only one that get more if new member ids the introductory section that put "Hija sexy guys...new member, etc, etc, or some thing that gets people attention as opposed to "back in the hobby again"
Holgar from Cork is crying you have a bigger ones, even though quote...his is thicker?, and his wife will settle for smaller ones..unquote!!!

Thank's for those kind words.
I am not after Praise, but after being in the hobby for almost 50 years I like to pass on what I have learnt and am still learning if some one will benefit from it.
Yourself and any other member who should happen this way are most welcome for a chat & cuppa ( in your case something a bit stronger).

And Sean still can't spell my name properly....

Holger if you can find away of getting my electric bill down to 2 or 3 times you total bill I will learn to spell your, name, I had just came back from lunch and the old vino effects my spelling.

Would that be the electricyy bill or the wine bill. I think I will have to post a link for the Betty Ford Clinic for yourself and Anthony.