×
Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Help please 3 fish down!

More
12 Oct 2010 20:33 #1 by alan.s (alan)
Hi guys
Could do with some help. 2 mollies died on me today and 1 neon. In the last hour or so all mollies tigers an neons are at tha surface of the water. Iv checked parameters and did a water change. 96 ltr tank.
Ammonia-0
Ph-6
nitrite-0.3
nitrate-10
I have changed to another air stone to increase air flow and removed hood. I also last week instaled an external filter(to get rid of internal) and both still running. I have a bad cold at the min is it possable they could have caught something from me through feeding or anything? Is there anything elce I can do?
Thanks in advance.
Al

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 Oct 2010 20:50 #2 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
Firstly, your cold will only hinder your ability to do water changes....I've not come across any evidence that your cold will harm the fish.

How long have you had the fish? and how long has the tank been set-up
What temp is that tank at?
What is the source of water, and is it conditioned correctly?
How many fish do you have in the tank, and what type?
Does the water have any cloudiness?
Are any fish shimmying?

Normally, I would say that mollies and acidic water is not a great mix, but if other fish are ill then that may be a red-herring.

ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 Oct 2010 21:02 #3 by alan.s (alan)
8 mollies(they had fry) 10 tigers, 7 neons, 3 plecos, 3 angels have had all a few months.I know their is a lot there and some not supposed to mix. Running since last march. Never had a problem like this so was linking it to the cold. It's at 25 celcius. Plecos where jumping to surface so I was thinking oxygen. Wouldn't have changed water normally in this state but after 3 deaths I had to. I use tap and tap safe ,stress zyme and stress coat. Water is crystal clear.
Since posting lost 1 tiger but all fish back at normal spots in tank now so I must have done something right. Would happen when i only bought a qt tank the other day( not set up yet)

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 Oct 2010 21:09 - 12 Oct 2010 21:19 #4 by Ma (mm mm)
You should test ythe tap water before going into the tank, incase you are getting s ph swing when changing water as a swing a significant bit lower than 6 is gettin to acid levels and that aint good for the fish at all, or you, and the gills would be the first thing to suffer.

If they're at the surface it can mean they are trying to get air, so that could mean a problem with the gills, you havent accidentially sprayed something near the tank like polish of window cleaner, or something on your hands when doing maint.

Your setup has been running months without adding new fish, sudden deaths usually means though not always, that parameters have changed suddenly, be it toxins or ph level.


No new decor added lately, new filter and media was cleaned out first?

How are you controlling PH?

Mark

Location D.11
Last edit: 12 Oct 2010 21:19 by Ma (mm mm).

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 Oct 2010 21:16 #5 by alan.s (alan)
Never thought of checking tap water ph. I did initially but I suppose that can change. Put in some bog wood 3 weeks ago. Yea washed the new filter through with tank water last week. Good news is I managed to bring my tiger back to life :) held him in net at power head and moved him in and out( must be a fish kiss of life )
I think worst is over now they all seem back to normal thank god. Thanks for your quick response guys!
Could only happen whilst I'm I'll!
Al

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 Oct 2010 21:18 - 12 Oct 2010 21:20 #6 by Ma (mm mm)
Hope they make it matey, sometimes unexplained deaths occur and we never know for sure why.


Mark

that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to find out why:)

Location D.11
Last edit: 12 Oct 2010 21:20 by Ma (mm mm).

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 Oct 2010 21:20 #7 by Damian_Ireland (Damian_Ireland)
I would think your tank is a little overstocked

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 Oct 2010 21:23 - 12 Oct 2010 21:23 #8 by Ma (mm mm)
Not really overstocked, depending on size ect.

I had 85 tetras 30 corydoras 3 BN 1 whiptail 100s of cherry shrimp in a 300L heavily planted

Required two filters and water changes from hell but naer a problem except a bit of algae.

Mark

Location D.11
Last edit: 12 Oct 2010 21:23 by Ma (mm mm).

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 Oct 2010 21:39 - 12 Oct 2010 21:41 #9 by alan.s (alan)
It is but I look after it and as I said have had them all for months with no problems. I plan to move angels and 1 pleco to other tank when it's running.
Thanks for your help mark fingers crossed no more problems in the morning :)
Last edit: 12 Oct 2010 21:41 by alan.s (alan).

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 Oct 2010 21:48 #10 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
There's 2 bits that hit me on your replies.....the pleco attempting to jump out the water, and the new bogwood.

If your pH were alkaline (well above 7) then there is always the possibility of ammonia poisoning; but there is still the high potential of ammonia poisoning (and a water ammonia test of zero means nothing really) in acid conditions if certain conditions exist.

Of course it may be that there is lack of oxygen in the tank....that is why I was asking if you have a cloudiness (biological overload).

The bog-wood.....are there any bubbles coming from it? does it have a microbial growth on it?

Check around your tank for decaying food and remove it. Do a partial water change and use something like tetra AquaSafe or other with a Vitamin B1 addition. Clean out the filters...and get rid of any mulm build-up in the tubes etc.

As for overstocking? well, maybe maybe not. I'd have to do some calculations first. :)

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 Oct 2010 21:56 #11 by Fishowner (Gavin fishowner)
It does sound like alot for a 96 litre tank. But in saying that its possible,but those angels are going to get too big soon,you've a plan for them anyhow so fair play.Also the tiger will probably harasses the mollys eventually, but perhaps with 10 of them in the tank they might occupy themselves.

Main thing is to watch the tank in the coming days.How much of a water change did you do?
Ease off the feeding for the moment and increase the water changes. Also aerate the water if you can.
I wonder could it be some form of metal poisioning or something like that? Often the test kits wont show those results.
The fact the plecos are at the surface could suggest lack of oxygen,but on the side of caution perhaps remove the bogwood and give it a good boil in water while increasing the oxygen content.

Keep an eye on it,its only 3 fish but its enough to be concerned I would think. Was interesting that the tiger barb found a new lease of life,good idea!

Keep us posted on it.
Gavin

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 Oct 2010 21:58 #12 by alan.s (alan)
Bog wood was from a friends tank and is well soaked(no brown water) and has no bubbles coming off of it. I can't see anything growing on it. Did a water change this evening do you think another my be needed tomorrow or will that just add more stress? Hovered out all food/poop during change bar lifting out all decoration which I did last week and gave it a good clean. On the ph I thought it seemed fine. What would you recommend I do with that?
Cheers Al

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 Oct 2010 22:00 #13 by Fishowner (Gavin fishowner)
How much of a water change did you do tonight ? Id probably do another water change tomorrow night if you've only done about 20% tonight.
The PH,are they tap water and tank water the same PH ?

Gavin

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 Oct 2010 22:07 #14 by alan.s (alan)
Yea just did a 20 % change. Will do another tomorrow then. Ph used to be the same but will have to check tap water again . Have to wait till tommorow this cold and running about has me worn out :)
Thanks again guys and I'll keep ye posted :)
Al

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 Oct 2010 22:09 #15 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
Fishowner wrote:

How much of a water change did you do tonight ? Id probably do another water change tomorrow night if you've only done about 20% tonight.
The PH,are they tap water and tank water the same PH ?

Gavin


Yep. No harm in a water change again.

I forgot to ask, what colour were the gills filaments of the deceased fish? Pink, Brown, Red, White, very pale?

Now, the other thing is the possibility of a gill infection.....I wouldn't normally bring that one in too soon as the most common causes are the ones already mentioned in this thread (99.99% of deaths in a tank are rarely due to some new alien disease..if you see what I mean.) Checking for disease would come way down on the list in such cases.

ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 Oct 2010 22:10 #16 by Fishowner (Gavin fishowner)
Do another 20% change tomorrow (I presume you are heating the water before you add it in).
Check the taps PH and compare to the tanks PH. I wouldnt do abit on the PH front until you can compare,if they are the same Id leave it alone for now. Also check the test kit expiry date and finally let us know what test kit you are using (is it strips?).
Oh and mind that cold!!!!!!
Gavin

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
13 Oct 2010 19:45 #17 by alan.s (alan)
hi guys
well bad news is barb did not last the night. good news is everyone else is grand :). checked tap ph against tank and they were the exact same. one thing i did realise was my water softener was empty on salt could that have had an effect? (i did refill it today).
test kit is a nutrafin test kit (it chemical)bbf:31/12/12
today's results before today's water change
ammonia 0
ph 6.5-7
nitrite 0.1
nitrate between 5-10 (its not very disguisable)

gills were a little pinky and pale on deceased but was hard to tell to be honest.
did another water change today and did not feed today and left light off,does this sound like the right course of action?
Cher AL
PS Cold is a lot better today :)

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
13 Oct 2010 23:18 #18 by platty252 (Darren Dalton)
alan.s wrote:

. one thing i did realise was my water softener was empty on salt could that have had an effect? (i did refill it today).


Hi Alan, IMO this could be the problem, or at least part of the problem.
The salt used to soften water is not good for fish. But you dont seem to have had a problem with it so far so i'm thinking it was when the salt ran out it had an effect on the fish.
I think for this to happen you would have to change a lot of water in one go or a lot over a few days.

Since you have added salt again to your water softener i would leave the water changes for a few days untill your fish get used to the water you added with no salt.
When you start changing water again in a few days only change about 5-10% every few days untill they get used to the salt again.

I hope that makes sense.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
13 Oct 2010 23:40 #19 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
platty252 wrote:

alan.s wrote:

. one thing i did realise was my water softener was empty on salt could that have had an effect? (i did refill it today).


Hi Alan, IMO this could be the problem, or at least part of the problem.
The salt used to soften water is not good for fish. But you dont seem to have had a problem with it so far so i'm thinking it was when the salt ran out it had an effect on the fish.
I think for this to happen you would have to change a lot of water in one go or a lot over a few days.

Since you have added salt again to your water softener i would leave the water changes for a few days untill your fish get used to the water you added with no salt.
When you start changing water again in a few days only change about 5-10% every few days untill they get used to the salt again.

I hope that makes sense.


Aagh, that bit of kit wasn't mentioned at first....I'd agree with Platy now that that bit of info is available.

Is the water softener a Permutit type one ( a single ion-exchange resin)? (a bit like a domestic water sofetner for washing machine installations).

Your water will be lacking magnesium and calcium buffering (and redox)....the mollies would not like that.
You'll also make the water unstable, and small changes in various things like lighting or filter activity can make transient large pH swings.
And, if the water softerner is a Permutit style then you could be getting a sodium/potassium if your tap water is quite hard.

ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
14 Oct 2010 18:12 #20 by alan.s (alan)
Iv no Idea about water softeners, never lived in a hard water area before an tis a rented house so it aint my softener if ya know what I mean :)
Will take your advice lads thanks. Things seemed to have calmed down a good bit thank god. And with my time off sick iv been making preparations for the other tank to get going (one advantage to being sick ).
Sorry never thought of softener in the beginning guys, and thanks again for all the help makes me glad I joined this club :)
Al

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
14 Oct 2010 23:48 #21 by platty252 (Darren Dalton)
Alan is there any way you can bypass the water softener?
Do you know the hardness of the water before it goes through the salts to be softened?

I would avoid the softener if at all possible.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
15 Oct 2010 10:51 #22 by Jim (Jim Lawlor)
Hi Alan,
Ive just been through all this with softeners.

One thing to try is bring a sample to your Lfs to see if there's much salt in the water. Depending on how hard the original water is, how old the softener and whether it's been serviced, there might be a lot of salt in the water or almost none at all. I brought a sample of mine to FFF and there was no detectable salt.

Also, are there other filters on your water? Some of them, even if not RO, take a lot of minerals out and as Ian said, will make the water unstable.

An option, until you establish everything, is to get remineralised RO water from your lfs for water changes until you know exactly what's going on.

Jim

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
15 Oct 2010 12:20 #23 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
See Jim's post above.


This water softener issue is bugging me a bit.

Do you happen to know what type of water softener it is? (make or model or style or even what salt exactly is being added).

Is this attached to the main cold-water supply?

There is a possibility that the unit is not actually a 'water softener' proper, but a de-ionising or RO-based water system. (although complete de-ionisers soften water, they are not specifically called a 'water softeners').

ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
15 Oct 2010 16:30 #24 by alan.s (alan)
iv no idea about softeners ut have attached some photos.it is attached to the mains in. its a bit tight to get at(as you can see from the pic),I don't think disconnecting is an option as it is a rented house i don't want to be taking things asunder.i cant imagine that it is such a problem has it been running on this water since last march. ill defo bring sample of the water next time I'm down at lfs though.
Cheers Al

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
15 Oct 2010 16:32 - 15 Oct 2010 16:44 #25 by alan.s (alan)
ok not letting me upload photos ill work on it
Attachments:
Last edit: 15 Oct 2010 16:44 by alan.s (alan).

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
15 Oct 2010 16:48 #26 by alan.s (alan)

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
15 Oct 2010 16:49 - 15 Oct 2010 16:56 #27 by alan.s (alan)
ok i give up cant re-size pics an not able to concentrate on it :)name on softener is Crisma. oh and no other filters attached.
Attachments:
Last edit: 15 Oct 2010 16:56 by alan.s (alan). Reason: unable to add pics

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
15 Oct 2010 19:27 #28 by aoife (aoife tansey)
try using photobucket.com, you should be able to pictures up through this

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
15 Oct 2010 19:44 #29 by Ma (mm mm)
alan.s wrote:

ok i give up cant re-size pics an not able to concentrate on it :)name on softener is Crisma. oh and no other filters attached.



Hi matey, Photobucket is rubbish slow and messy and resizes your pics upon upload to a small size.

Register on www.postimage.org/
When you upload pictures wont resize
Also when you upload pics, when they finish uploading the links will appear at the bottom of the web page and all you do is copy and paste onto your post here, easy as, no editing of the code and pics are posted as small until you click on one and it will pop up full size. Very handy site.


mark

Location D.11

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
15 Oct 2010 21:42 #30 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
Crisma make (or made) a number of units. I don't have (and wouldn't either), but my interpretation of their product is that is based on a simple cation exchange resin (=the permutit method).
The principle is that the ion-exchange material is a sodium based resin, and when you pass hard water of it the resin will take the calcium and magnesium ions out of the water and replace them with sodium ions.

So....effectively, the concentration of sodium pumped out of the water softener is twice the concentration of the calcium or magnesium in the original hard water. ie if the incoming water is hard, then the sodium content will increase in the output.

But, the sodium concentration itself is not the only problem. A bigger concern (for me) is the removal of the calcium and magnesium......removal of these remove pH buffering and redox buffering as well as an inbalance of divalent electrolytes (needed for normal function).
Although something else might be wrong, these points alone will cause symptoms you mention.

I'd add some stuff to harden the water a bit...be careful of course.

ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.103 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum