a bit baffled

just completed my weekly maintainance in my 350 l ,checked all levels all ok . now went to add the fertilizer I was recommended now I am running co2 ,read the label and it says it contains ammonium ,nitrate and phosphate ,cant understand this as I am working very hard to get these items out of by tank with filters and water changes .the fertilizer is Tropica Plant Growth specialised fertiliser ..

Plants use feed on nitrates and phosphate is important for root growth. Are you sure it contain ammonia? Thats new one for me, but im by no means expert....

Weekly water change is important to reset the balance of nutrients in water, but once tank and plants become more established and you strike right balance for fert and co2 water changes can be done less frequently.

Thanks for your reply it says it contains ammonium , now I am no expect but reckon ammonium is either ammonia by another another name or a by product of ammonia so this to me is really weird , spent time removing these chemicals and then spend hard earned money putting them back into the tank ,weird

Ammonium to my knowledge is not harmful in aquaria

Ger

But is it not ammonia by another name

robert wrote:

But is it not ammonia by another name

No it's not.......It's times like this a certain Mr.Millichip would come in handy so Iaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnn we need you!!!!!

In the meantime read this:
www.wikidifference.com/difference-between-ammonia-and-ammonium/

Ger

Sorry mistread that one lol. Yea ammonium is product from ammonia, but ammonia cannot be used by plants, ammonium can. Hope it make more sense.

Just done a Google ammonium is nh4 a non toxic salt however with a change in ph can rapidly become nh3 ammonia which as we all know is toxic to fish , so Google is saying that ammonium for this reasons is not wanted in an aquarium , so why is it in a plant fertilizer .?

robert wrote:

Just done a Google ammonium is nh4 a non toxic salt however with a change in ph can rapidly become nh3 ammonia which as we all know is toxic to fish , so Google is saying that ammonium for this reasons is not wanted in an aquarium , so why is it in a plant fertilizer .?

Google is a bit crazy at times dude that's why we have forums!! add your ferts and don't be worrying too much..............If you read too much on the science of running a fish tank you will go nuts......trust me on this .........weekly water changes and general maintenance is 99.9999999% of all you need to do ok.............i'm fecking still seeing that shrink!!!

Ger

Hi Ger ,thanks for the reply , sort of agree with what you are saying , but it just seems a bit strange . Water changes are king . Will ask Darren in seahorse about it as he recommended it and so far hasn't seen me wrong

As far as I was led to believe ammonium you get at the lower ph scale less harmfull than ammonia which is more toxic in neutral to higher ph.Read somewhere that if your tank was heavily planted that there is much less bacteria in your filter than you expect,plants consume ammonia faster than nitrate and consume it faster than bacteria do.

After the experience I had recently this is kinda making some sense.I did a part change and external filter maintenance a couple of weeks a go feeding my fish twice a day and everything was hunky dory.No unusual behaviour from fish and even a colony of shrimp and youngsters feeding away but 5 days later was checking water temp and ex filter and realized that I had forgot to turn the filter back on (crystal profis as quiet as a mouse )
Well you can imagine what was racing through my head,i couldn't believe that the tank inhabitants hadn't shown no ill effect,Immediatly i opened the top of the external filter and replaced the gunky filter floss and replaced it with new stuff and turned the filter back on.I got the water tested at the LFS and got an ammonia reading of 1 which i was expecting to be a lot more and a nitrate reading of 20,was told to put liquid filter bacteria in the tank after a part change so did that.I wasn't able to get a test kit until a few days later so put in polyfilter as it takes out ammonia as far as i know and only had fed the fish a couple of times as there like a school of pirahnas.
I got the test kit and tested straight away the ammonia reading was 0 nitrate 0 nitrite 0 and ph 7.4 which is higher so thinking what all zero readings were about.
Ive been trying to figure this all out so came to some conclusions since i found the filter hadn't been turned back o that helped,
I have some rapidly growing plants that were using up the nitrates and according to the information above re plants absorbing ammonia faster than bacteria can..
I don't use plant feeds that could of had the water parameters worse in this situation..
I use easy life FFM that i find a great product........]
I have cattapa leaves in the tank,said to have some beniftial properties...
The polyfilter was a godsend....
And the biggest asset of all was that i had a vigorous airstone running in the tank for surface water movement and gas exchange..

Robert in my opinion the best fertilizer products are made be EASY LIFE!

Easy Life "Profito" contains everything you need for the the bog standard planted aquarium..
It contains no Ammonium and no Phosphates......Ammonium is basically Ammonia when the PH is lower than 7......

www.easylife.nl/en/freshwater/profito

Just googled Tropica Plant Fertilizer....

There are 2 types...

One without Phosphates and Nitrogen(Ammonium) This is the orange one also known as "Premium Fertilizer"
tropica.com/en/plant-care/liquid-fertili.../premium-fertiliser/

Then there is the one that does contain Phosphates and Nitrogen(Ammonium) This is the green one known as "Specialised Fertilizer"
tropica.com/en/plant-care/liquid-fertili...cialised-fertiliser/

Its possible Darren sold you the green one by mistake!
I think he actually meant to sell you the orange one.........

thanks for the imput lads ,I use to use the easy life profto but was told that now I was running co2 I needed to change to what I am using ,I would also say that I am rather disappointed with the effect or should I say non effect of running co2 , haven't really seen any increase of plant growth , system running since end of December

3 things come to mind Robert....

1 Plants can take a while to settle in properly (sometimes months)

2 You may not be injecting enough Co2

3 You may not be dosing enough Ferts..(Believe it or not overdosing ferts in well established planted tanks is actually a good idea) I double the recommended dose of liquid ferts over a period of days 3 per week( Basically a third of the dose every second day)...(Dosing the standard dose just one day a week doesnt really work well even though thats what it says on the bottle)
Basically what Im saying is double the dose and spread it out over the week.....More plants means more ferts.....Especially if you have faster growing ones which outcompete slower growers for nutrients

Actually another thing comes to mind Robert.....

Your lighting!

If you are using flourescent tubes it is recommended to change them out at least once a year....(maunfacturers recommend every 6 months) I split the difference and change out my tubes every 9 months....That has worked well for me so far!

re lighting the tank has 4 t8 which I changed all tubes at xmas I also added a led light bar from seahorse makes a big difference, the co2 runs 7 hours each day ,two hours before lights come on and goes off one hour before the lights go off . I recently reduced the time the lights were on for to help reduce a black beard algae problem ,not much but un slightly . the co2 display thing in the tank is green so a little afraid to increase co2 . will have a chat with Darren at the weekend , I have heard as you sudjest to dose ferts daily or bydaily instead of weekly ,it makes sense ,

As far as I know (dont quote me on this) running Co2 when the lights are off is just a waste of Co2 gas....In fact you are just adding Co2 which is not being absorbed by the plants and it can possibly be harmful to the fish (more Co2 means less oxygen)

Most planted tank keepers turn their Co2 systems on and off with their lights....

In the long run you will save yourself Co2 gas and in turn money...

Again i may be wrong! I hold my hands up if i am!

freshwater-aquarium-passion.blogspot.ie/...rks-at-aquarium.html

i was advised to do what I am doing on the basis that with co2 coming on 2 hours before lights on ,it builds up the level of co2 for the plants to use when the lights come on and by turning co2 one hour before lights out allows the plants to use the co2 in the tank before lights out , I was led to believe this was the most economical way to use co2 . but being new to this I am certainly no expert and value others ideas and experience

As I said in an earlier post don't get caught up too much on the science of it all ok.....you will end up hating the Tropical side of the hobby after a while!!.....the ferts you bought in Seahorse are perfectly safe to use in your aquarium but talk to Darren again if it will put your mind at ease ok.........after a while things will settle down and your pocket will be a little healtier again ok.

I think you did too much in a short space of time (as we all are guilty of if honest) and reading too much on uncle google and a fair bit on here has left your head in a bit of a twirl..............just hang iin there and it WILL get a lot easier!!

Ger

thanks GER

robert wrote:

i was advised to do what I am doing on the basis that with co2 coming on 2 hours before lights on ,it builds up the level of co2 for the plants to use when the lights come on and by turning co2 one hour before lights out allows the plants to use the co2 in the tank before lights out , I was led to believe this was the most economical way to use co2 . but being new to this I am certainly no expert and value others ideas and experience

That's dead on advise. Keep doing that! When lights come on you want 25-30 ppm co2 for a planted aquarium

gunnered72 wrote:

As far as I know (dont quote me on this) running Co2 when the lights are off is just a waste of Co2 gas....In fact you are just adding Co2 which is not being absorbed by the plants and it can possibly be harmful to the fish (more Co2 means less oxygen)

Most planted tank keepers turn their Co2 systems on and off with their lights....

In the long run you will save yourself Co2 gas and in turn money...

Again i may be wrong! I hold my hands up if i am!

freshwater-aquarium-passion.blogspot.ie/...rks-at-aquarium.html

No you want co2 on 2 hours before lights come on to reach the required level of co2. 25-30ppm. Then off an hour before lights go off because plants stop uptaking co2 near the end of the photoperiod.

I stand corrected! Apologies!

Yeah Robert it does seem a bit counterintuitive to be putting nitrate into your tank while doing water changes to take it out, here is some info I found useful I hope it helps.

Water changes are not only to remove nitrate there are other benefits like removing organics and replacing nutrients.

In a planted tank especially heavily planted your nitrate could fall to 0 this is obviously not good for your plants as they are missing a nutrient they need but can also cause PH crashes I believe.

A planted tank is a balancing act of giving your plants all the nutrients they need as if any one element is in short supply they cannot photosynthesise but not at levels too high for your fish, fun isn't it.

Tanks differ quite a bit so the fert bottle can't tell you the exact amount you need for your tank.

You could drive yourself batty measuring every level I suggest you use nitrate as a guide, if your nitrate is less than 20 just before water change you could probably use a little more ferts and if it hits 40 or over reduce the ferts.

Hopefully your BBA subsides and you can slowly increase photo period again to get a bit more growth.

Ok I've rambled on almost enough now. You're on the right track making water change as easy as possible as more frequent or larger water changes are the first step in dealing with most aquarium issues.

Tank looks great in the pics.

Dec

Hi Dec ,thanks for the imput , the holy grail of fish keeping a balanced tank , but I thought that with running co2 I was going to give me a very much increased plant growth and a lusher greener appearance ,that just hasn't happened and to be honest haven't noticed any difference since running co2 except the wallet is considerably lighter , but sure that's fishkeeping

robert wrote:

Hi Dec ,thanks for the imput , the holy grail of fish keeping a balanced tank , but I thought that with running co2 I was going to give me a very much increased plant growth and a lusher greener appearance ,that just hasn't happened and to be honest haven't noticed any difference since running co2 except the wallet is considerably lighter , but sure that's fishkeeping

What way are you injecting the co2 into your aquarium? What filter are you using? Are you using pumps to circulate the water. A rule of thumb states u need 10 times the circulation of your aquarium eg. 160 liter needs 1600 litres\hour output from filter and/or pump.

hi ted thanks for your post , co2 is injected from fe with regulator ,check valve ,inline difusher, , bubble counter ,and in tank co2 indicator which is green . filteration is two externals a Aquaone cf1200 and a Crystal Profiti e1500, total of 2700 litres an hour ,tank is 350 litres ,turnover 7.7 times an hour . I also have a powerhead with sponge filter ,this has a verturi connected to increase aeration inside the tank . levels are ammonia zero ,nitrite zero , nitrate 12.5 ph 7.0 , phosphate 2. As you can from the above all is ok , So why wont my plants grow ?, they arnt dieing just not growing. Was talking to Darren in Seahorse today he cant really put a reason on it , said to double the fertilizer dose and then add I/7 of the dose daily . water changes are now up to 30% weekly

robert wrote:

hi ted thanks for your post , co2 is injected from fe with regulator ,check valve ,inline difusher, , bubble counter ,and in tank co2 indicator which is green . filteration is two externals a Aquaone cf1200 and a Crystal Profiti e1500, total of 2700 litres an hour ,tank is 350 litres ,turnover 7.7 times an hour . I also have a powerhead with sponge filter ,this has a verturi connected to increase aeration inside the tank . levels are ammonia zero ,nitrite zero , nitrate 12.5 ph 7.0 , phosphate 2. As you can from the above all is ok , So why wont my plants grow ?, they arnt dieing just not growing. Was talking to Darren in Seahorse today he cant really put a reason on it , said to double the fertilizer dose and then add I/7 of the dose daily . water changes are now up to 30% weekly

Is that powerhead on during lights on? If so I'd disconnect the venturi. That could be driving co2 out of the tank. Id have the powerhead but not the venturi