New aquariums-new keeper.

Hi all
I am a newbie to this. I got my tank (240 ltr)as a present the week before Christmas and was carefull to mature it as per the books/internet/shop advice etc.
Now I know it can take time but I am beginning to think I am doing something wrong...here's the history.
Day one - put tank and filters and heater and pump and tank base together and filled with water.I left the heater and pump runinng and it remained like this for a week(7 days exactly) and I introduced 6 Tetras, 6 Dannios and 2 Plecos.
Start of week 3 two red fin shark and 4 neons came to live in my tank.
All was nice and happy..water quality was ok (as far as I knew)with pH rock steady @ 7.5, Ammonia 0.25 and Nitrite @ 0 to 0.25 but I was being told that the water still was not right for a less hardy fish.
In week 4 I brought a sample of water to my local fishy shop and they said it still was not right but to keep doing water changes. It was here that I realised I had not being doing any water changes and when I told them this they were surprised that the water was not worse.
Anyway this is week 6 and water is is still the same and I am doing water changes 3 days on and 3 days off but quality seems to be the same. I did have one day where the readings went wild but after a little panic and another change it came back to the readings mentioned above.
I had 3 casualties one red-fin from fighting, one Pleco (week5)from what looked like a heart attack/fit right in front of me and the 2nd Pleco this morning was lying peacefull at the bottom but his soul was elsewhere.

I want to get this right because I love to watch them but am getting a bit impatient.
Anyone have any ideas where I am going wrong.
Thanks in advance,
Processor.
P.S. Stress zyme and coat (30ml of each) added with each water change.

Seems like your tank is not fully cycled... This is a matter of patience and persistence :!: You need to continue doing water changes until ammonia and nitrites are 0... i think you should be doing 10% water change every day until the above paremeters are correct.

Do not introduce more fish on the tank until the levels are stable as theres enough fish to cycle the tank...

Hope this help!
Pablo

Thanks Pablo.
I am doing 25% changes ... is this OK or is it better to do daily 10% changes ?
Also I am only feeding a pinch of flakes once a week.

Thanks
Processor.

yeah pablo sounds right, have you put in starter bacteria?? these convert the ammonia to the less toxic compounds!?!

It was recommended to put in stress coat and stress zyme at the start .
Would these do or is there something better to kick start it ?

Thanks
Processor.

I am doing 25% changes ... is this OK or is it better to do daily 10% changes ?

In my opinion constant small water changes are better...

Also I am only feeding a pinch of flakes once a week

I'll try feeding the normally, the uneaten food and fish poo will create ammonia that is necesary for the tank to Cycle.

Hope this help... Maybe someone else has a different opinion!

Cheers
Pablo

I put in stress coat every water change, but the starter bacteria I just put in at the start. When you put it in it grows on the filter, on the stones and is in the water and its these beneficial bacteria that get rid of toxic substances.

As far as I know stress coat is just for the fish and has little to do with the quality of the water (does it remove chlorine maybe?? i';m not too sure). The ammonia and nitrites should be at 0, coz even very little ammonia (0.25) can be lethal for fish.

G

Thank you both Georgina and Pablo.

I will start with 10% daily changes and as for the starter bacteria... I didn't use any to begin with so I am now wondering should I get some even at this stage.
I will keep you posted with my results and thanks again very much for your info.

Processor

Never ever wash your filters under the tap. This will cause you ammonia / nitrite to spike an kill your fish.

The tank is not cycled properly as a result.

Change more water, leave the filters untouched, do not wash them for at least a month. Add zeolite to your filters, this will help to absorb ammonia.

Always treat tap water with a dechlorinator and all will be well.

Regards, and no more fish for another month!

Conor.

OK I'll try the zeolite.
As for the tap water treatment do you just add this to tap water in a container before going into the tank or to the tank after filling.

Sorry for ignorance but I have to learn somewhere.......and God do you need patience in this game !!

Thanks
Processor.

Patience, hmm, not one of my virtues.

And Marine is _worse_

Just to be clear, _never_ wash the filters in the sink.
Always siphon out water from the tank and wash your filters in that.

If you get ammonia / nitrite spikes, then do not feed the fish for a few days. They wont mind. It will give the bacteria time to use the ammonia.

And do not worry about doing massive water changes. Whenever I see nitrite/ammonia. I do a 50% change, then another after two days.

Contrary to popluar belief, this will not remove the good bacteria from the tank. 90% of this is in your filter foam, the rest is on rocks, glass etc.

Place a small cut out foam filter on the inlet water feed in the aquarium.
That way if all the bacteria die while over zealously cleaning a filter foam / replacing it / wot-0e-ver.

When cleaning the filters, never _ever_ clean the one on the inlet. That way its always covered in nitrifying bacteria.

Happy Christmas lads

I never use Strees coat on my tanks...

When i do water changes i use a 25litres water container where i use Water Safe to remove Chlorine and also make sure the water is at the same temp as the tank...

As the tank is not fully cycled i will insist in small daily water changes as the bacteria in the filter need to mature. once the tank is fully cycled you can do large water changes without problems...

Do not use starter bacteria as this is only an Ammonia kick to start the cycling process once the tank is cycling with fish inside the fish will produce enough ammonia (poo and rests of food) to maintain the cycle.

Remember that water changes are to remove the nitrates from the tank... If nitrates are low and ammonia and nitrites are high the tank is not cycled yet!

Hope this help!

OK ... that's a great amount of help.
Thanks lot all of you .
Small daily changes it is then and will see where I am next week.

Thanks all.
Processor.

Agreed with previous comments .. smaller changes ( 10% ) would be best.
I got a similar problem a while ago .. i changed my filter to an external one, and made the mistake of removing the old media from the tank .. disaster for the water, took me weeks to get the water back to normal
Luckyly for me fishes were ok, just looked bad ( very cloudy )

Patience is the name of the game Small regular changes, and not cleaning the filter till your fully cycled , and you should be good to go !
Another thing you could try to speed up things, is to get substrat from an already cycled tank and add it into yours

I also heard of some Organic solutions FishFX are selling that kick start cycling things in a day

I cannot recommend organics to be honest. There is really no need for such a thing in a cycled aquarium.

Plus it costs a fortune to maintain. :idea:

I wouldn't go for that either!

Well without additives but just daily changes I now have zero ammonia and zero nitrite. This is from 3 testings Friday,Saturday and today.
Ya I know...shouldn't get too excited yet but I will continue for this week on daily changes and then maybe next week cut down to 3 a week. ???.

And then can I get some fishys...Huh...please...please huh ?

(Satisfaction creeping into this pastime)

Processor.

Its grand now so. When nitrite and ammonia both read zero, then you can add your fish.

Be carefull to not overstock suddenly, as the bacteria populations will not be ready for loads of new mess, always add fish over time, never all at once.

Never overfeed, only feed as much as will be eaten almost immediately.
Once they have eaten everything, then throw in some more.

Food uneaten after two minutes is going to rot in your filter. So best switch off the filter during feeds.

regards
Conor, :o

No Ammonia and No Nitrates are a great signal.... as conor said... "do not overstock, do not overfeed"

Good luck!

Yes, be careful with the stocking levels and increase gradually as you may see a mini-cycle when you add further fish as the bacteria catch up with the increased levels of ammonia and then nitrite. Too many fish at one time and the cycle can be too extreme and you will lose fish.

water changes are not in theirselves a problem when trying to reduce ammonia & nitrite Nitrate is not a problem until you get into the higher reaches over 200ppm.
I would take a geuss & say that the water you are changing too has a problem such as chlorine or other stuff. Leave your water in buckets outside for at least 12 days to remove clorine & other harmfull substances in tapwater its best if it goes green then clears & will cycle according to temperature.
Now cycling means that.
If you dont produce a constant supply of ammonia from your fish your tank will never cycle. So feed a regular ammount per day even it is very small. Fish need food & aeromonas & nitrosomonas need food which is ammonia & nitrite. So this is the natural cycle.
I dont change any water when cycling, I just build up the feed over the six weeks it takes. You dont need special filters either just a large base on which bacteria grow. I prefer the undergravell filter installation, as it makes your whole tank a filter
The main reason for water changes is to remove Nitrate which can also be helped by growing weed & plants in your tank.
A fully planted tank should have no (or almost no nitrate) if it does you are feeding too much.
the natural cycle is just that, natural, too many fish in too small aquariums will also cause the ammonia nitrate over 50ppm syndrome.
Stick to a few fish to start and a little feeding on a regular basis
Add fish on a regular basis & wait untill your bacteria level increases . Dont put an extra bit of food in for the new fish straight away. build it up so you are feeding enough over three weeks.
This gives the natural cycle time to catch up.
this cycle will last the life of your tank with regular maintenence. For the natural cycle change only water that has a problem & only do it when the problem look imminent. You will gauge the water changes by that.
If nitrate is continually high change a greater percentage of water if its fairly low change less.
Dont upset the applecart by addin too many fish. too much food or too much uncycled water.
This is the natural way, adjust it untill you have the balance & do maintenence regularly

A fully planted tank should have no (or almost no nitrate) if it does you are feeding too much.

This is incorrect

A fully planted tank with no nitrate present will have algae, usually BGA or blue green algae, the algae will be caused by the plants having a nutrient deficiency, nitrate is a nutrient for aquatic plants, without it the tank will develop algae.

Fully planted tanks with low levels of nitrate (<5ppm) are also susceptable to bga, but with no or zero nitrate present you will most definatly have algae present.

Nitrate is a food for aquatic plants along with phosphate and potassium, also referred to as NPK or maconutrients, if any of these are deficient the tank will develop algae, plants also need a source of trace elements, boron zinc etc in very small doses, this is usually dosed to a tank as a general purpose fertiliser such as Kent botanic grow or seachem flourish.

The NPK in low light tanks is usually present from either fish waste or the introduction of fish food, low light tanks with a decent fish load can be generally self sufficient in NPK, in high light tanks (+2 wpg) you usually have to supplement the NPK and dose it to the tank a couple of times per week.

Fully planted highlight tanks if handled correctly (dont add to many fish at once) dont have to be cycled at all as the plants will do it for you. I have done this several times.

Not quite
The two major causes of Blue-Green Algae is poor water quality
(nutrient rich water), or dim (low) lighting.
Too much food equals nutrient rich water the rest follows
regards

Not quite
The two major causes of Blue-Green Algae is poor water quality
(nutrient rich water), or dim (low) lighting.
Too much food equals nutrient rich water the rest follows
regards

The main cause of BGA in a "planted" tank is low or bottomed out nitrates, I agree poor substrate maintainance can bring about BGA also, but the main cause nine times out of ten is low nitrate levels which you have you have observed are not nescessary in a planted tank and which i have pointed out is incorrect information.

Like any plant, algae require food to survive. The three main nutrients that algae need are nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium. Not Nitrate
Too much algae + bright light = low algae levels.
Explained. Algae grows & eats phosphates.. add bright light ... Algae consumes all phosphates very quickly & therefore starves to death = brown algae sludge
plants in tank eat all phosphates in water= result= algae cells die of malnutrician.
High nitrates have little or no effect on algae.
high nitrates = lots of plant fetrtilizer = rapid plant growth = low algae...as algae competes with phosphate levels & plants win every time as they are a more advanced species than the algae

Am I still wrong?
regards

BGA is a bacteria and not a typical sort of algae.Therefore it requires a different environment to flourish than normal algae such as brown.Usually poor water quality is enough to bring it on.However in a Malawi or Tanganyikan setup BGA is a godsend,obviously minus the poor water quality.

I allways thought that this was an algae albeit a strange one. Are you saying its not?
Surely if you want to get it into the tank just increase phosphate. I have no doubt it is present in your aquarium as it normally is somewhere. Albeit hiding somewhere, so if you want to reproduce it make it grow.
small ammounts of phosphates are not dangerous to fish though a lot is a problem. it causes the algae bloom but it cant be considered bad water if introduced in the right ammounts.
do your fish eat it or something?
regards
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Yeah my fish love it.I dont have it in large amounts because I have very clean water,however I do keep lights on for 14 hours a day which helps it come on a bit.It looks great on any type of rock especially ocean rock.I have one tank with all vegetarian fish in it,about 12 fish in a 260 litre setup.Not enough BGA grows to keep even this small setup going.The only way I reckon I could get more BGA going is to let water quality slip a bit,which is never worth it.
I know what you are saying about the Phospherous,but I try to keep all my foods with less than 0.9%.What setups have you got?Is algae a good or bad thing for them?

I dont actually have many setups I have test tanks and install them professionally. I limit my testing to a small 4 ft juwel where i spend my time experimenting with good bad or indiffrent subjects just to prove them.
Anything that grows in a fishtank or a river for that matter cant be bad for them exept when thats all there is & just like humans they get scurvy and other deficeincies. But as part of a balanced diet algae is like eating greens to us. Or in the irish case Cabbage without bacon lol.
That is the same with the tank water, if a fish has never suffered high nitrate levels then it will be more succeptable to them when it occurs.
There should be patent phosphates on the market to add to the water to produce the algae and if you search for someone else that has had the same problems then you should be able to get quantity introductions from them. Its all a matter of producing the right mixture.
regards