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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Some ‘personal’ thoughts from me as a Forum Member

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27 Jun 2010 11:52 #1 by JohnH (John)
A week or two back I made an Administrative post (“A reminder”) where I tried to set new guidelines for Forum posting as I wanted to try to return the Forum to its former position of being primarily Fish-Oriented.

Points were made agreeing and, sadly, disagreeing and I personally received emails and PMs for the concept and one against it.

One of the things I was accused of was constantly posting answers to questions, isn’t that what the Forum exists for? Would you rather a question go unanswered? Another was that I was forever logged in – why shouldn’t I be? – I no longer work away from home so can access the Computer at all times. There are others here who are in the fortunate situation of being able to do that whilst at work – fair play to you!

Personally I have no objections to some light-hearted banter, indeed it has been my ‘style’ on both this and another Forum I used to contribute to before it closed down, what annoys most of the ‘established’ regulars is the inane gobbledegook – not to mention personal attacks on members in open Forum – coming from other members.

An example…the senior Show Judge posted some words of advice regarding how best to present your Fish to be at their best for the Show last month, the replies which followed descended the topic into discussions of how their partner dressed up when going out!
He withdrew his advice and has only posted once or twice since! We need people of his calibre here!
Please remember, this isn’t some Fishkeepers chat room - as Stretnik says, PMs exist for that sort of personal rubbish, use them.
A perfect example was the hmmmm where's the mods thread, that should have been confined to a series of PMs - in my opinion. This sort of nonsense only drives more dedicated and serious Aquarists away, which is unacceptable! Sadly one of the contributors to it was someone I hold in high esteem as a ‘serious’ Fishkeeper and his actions have been remarked to me as being ‘surprising’, confirming my own thoughts.

Galling to some, too, is the constant use of abbreviations – I can see the need to do this for economy in texts, but posting here costs nothing and you can use a spell-checker if needs be – since time immemorial man has striven to learn to read and write properly and in the space of less than a decade people are now writing in what I call ‘text-abbreviation’. Lord only knows where this is leading – I really fear for the future but I’m rather grateful I’ll not be around to witness it!

Someone cannot join any democratic community (Forum in our case) without abiding by the rules of that community – they must not set themselves at odds with existing community members.
To anyone who wants a Fish Forum run in that sort of way the alternative is there for you to start up your own one! If you want to remain members of this Forum please heed the rules and protocol of it.

The issue of the youtube videos was as a result of a complaint from another Forum member and could have been handled better, I agree. But the principle behind that decree was sound.



(Those were just some personal observations of my own, nothing other than that).

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.
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27 Jun 2010 12:14 #2 by duzzy1 (Martin Kennedy)
Hi John ... i must admit to not having been on the forum much in the last week or two due to work etc , but i must agree with you . A bit of common banter is always a light hearted relief , but only if it goes alongside the fishy topics which the forum was established for .

just one or 2 suggestions i have which i think might make a difference .

1. the social/rubbish section ( only in my opinion ) is a section which should not appear in the list of recent posts . I'm not sayin close it down , just make it so that the posts put in there , do not appear in the latest posts list on the homepage .

2. Every users profile has space for name , address etc ... but also has a section to fill in msn address . So if someone would like to have a chat with another member about something non fish related , then why not fill in ths information and let other members add you on msn or yahoo or wotever other instant messaging service you may use . This ( again only my opinion ) would take the pointless comments away from the forum and keep it totally fishy .

I'm not tryin to step on anyone's toes with these suggestions and i'm definitely not tryin to piss anyone off ... but the forum has always been a great help to me as i'm sure it has been to many others , so I for one would enjoy to see it that same way .

Thanx for reading guys .

Marti
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27 Jun 2010 12:19 #3 by Fishowner (Gavin fishowner)
John,
I agree with your post. While I appreciate alot of peoples wit and humour,the latest posts are often on topics that have nothing to do with fishkeeping,and I will certainly say Ive seen less of the regular forum contributors in recent times which in my opinion is a loss. Im talking the Plattys,Darragh Owens,Goldie,Ken etc of the forum...who have contributed so well before but I dont often see them on here now as often which is a shame. I myself tend to post less now as I find its the usual childish banter that dominates much of this forum. Everyone (well certain members) seem to have a comment on every post that is put up. Fair enough if its a post that is asking for an answer, such a fishkeeping query,but the constant back and worth replies turn the posts into a joke and often a slagging match.

JohnH, dont stop replying to posts,your information is needed here and if some users dont like your responses then perhaps they can do better but Ive not seen it. I will also say that alot of childish banter and humour (and please dont put me down as a damp squib,I like a laugh like everyone else too),but these posters actually do have some fishkeeping knowledge and hope they will continue to share their knowledge.

I think really what we are saying is, that lads not everything posted on here needs to decend into an offtopic joke or a silly back and forth humour competition. A little common sense please lads, alot of us log into the forum for a quick browse and get disheartened when the recent posts are dominated by silly "social" posts.

Im not looking to upset anyone either so if you like your funny posts and all that, then fair enough.Im just putting my thoughts on the situation as I know alot of regular members must feel the same as I do. Its evidenced by the fact we havent seen them on here as much in recent times.

Regards

Gavin
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27 Jun 2010 12:22 #4 by Daragh_Owens (Daragh Owens)
Unfortunately I have to agree with all Johnh has said, the level of quality contributions has dropped considerably recently and that can be attributed to the increasing volume of non-fish related traffic, poor quality posts, non-compliance of a few simple rules and poor taste is some circumstances.

I was Admin here for a good while, both before and after Valerie took on the role and I know what a thankless job it is, no matter what decision you make or action you take / don’t take there will ALWAYS be someone that disagrees and all the PM’s received attest to that.

Most disappointing is the lack of support from most of the long term members over the last few weeks and months, they will all tell you how sad it is to see the forum deteriorating to a social chatroom but they have not posted anything to try and re-dress the balance. You can include me in that because as far as I am concerned I have done that often enough and now if no one else is bothered then neither am I.

The timing of this could not be worse. The club have put a huge effort (and expense) into an exhibit at PetExpo next weekend, the largest stand in the show. The purpose was to recruit new members to the club and to the forum with a view to more fish keepers taking part in the show next year, sadly I would be embarrassed to suggest beginners join this forum at the moment.



Daragh
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27 Jun 2010 12:30 - 27 Jun 2010 12:50 #5 by Puddlefish (Colin McCourt)
I'm consider myself a new member but was driven to make a comment....
Breaking this down segment by segment.
John I agree with most of the things you have stated in your lengthy thread.
The rules are there (as with any forum) to protect the integrity of the forum board itself, for members to adhere to in order to lend credibility to, what is essentially first and foremost a dedicated fish forum, one that wants to be treated as such. If not, the potential new members will seek to find information elsewhere if the content is not available on this specific niche in cyberspace.
That's not to say that light hearted banter shouldn't be allowed in some shape or form either in a separate section, chat area or even on a thread so long as members use discretion.
As for your own personal attacks such as constantly posting answers to questions, well that's just BS as, I for one value your replies, I may not always agree with them but at least your putting across views based on your own experience. Again, so what, if your always logged on, what da hell does that matter or have concern to anyone, you joined the forum, you essentially contributed to the forum, you (as did others) helped to shape and mould the forum to what it's become
The forum is for everyone (or at least I think it is) who wants to join and contribute, as in life there are some things we will not agree on, so we'll have to compromise and beg to differ without resorting to flaming etc.
Everyone has something to contribute to a forums success. I personally joined as a recommendation from a friend and made some small contributions to help with content and interest. There's a great we nucleus of members here, which offers a homely community spirit without being overly large. I happen to think that larger forum boards such as the big guns in the states don't posses that tight community spirit as do boards like this localised one.
Maybe a chatroom or shoutbox option may be something to consider for those wishing to go off topic to an extreme
He says waiting for the England v Germany match to kick off (B) Sorry off-topic again :laugh:
Regards
C
Last edit: 27 Jun 2010 12:50 by Puddlefish (Colin McCourt).
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27 Jun 2010 12:36 - 27 Jun 2010 13:01 #6 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re:Some ‘personal’ thoughts from me as a Forum Mem
I concur 100% The Childlike attitude and remonstrations in response to anyone trying to retain a modicum of professionalism or good manners has been disappointing to say the least, I think the use of bad Language and disrespectful remarks have been saddening also.

John has made reference to the use of the Spell checker, I'm not sure everyone knows what it is but for those who don't it's when a red line appears under a word just right click it and you'll find spelling in a drop down menu all be it American.

I have faith in everyone pulling together and seeing sense.


PLEASE DON'T ACT IRRESPONSIBLY AND END UP HAVING THE PLUG PULLED ON THE FORUM.

Kev.
Last edit: 27 Jun 2010 13:01 by stretnik (stretnik).
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27 Jun 2010 12:58 #7 by Puddlefish (Colin McCourt)
I don't envisage the Forum having to be pulled as you have mentioned above.
There are too many good members out there to not let this happen.
100% Dedicated to the cause Members as I witnessed at the Dublin show a few weeks back
If certain rogue members act responsibly and adhere to protocol then the equilibrium will be restored once more for the benefit of every participant on this board.
Regards
C
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27 Jun 2010 13:08 - 27 Jun 2010 13:25 #8 by Ma (mm mm)
I see it being that these non fish posts get lots of imput quickly with more seriuos posts getting less attention. Is that not down to users not posting choosing what to post on? Though turning a useful post into a joke is not on. But lets face it, its the thread update thingy on the side, if you view the forum, hardly any posts decend into absolute jokes, some have deserved it for being unclear. Just the updae section gets a lot of replies to non fish posts and yeah its annoying for those who use that front end rather than the forum

The thread "PM sent." should have been reported to mod and then deleted and user sent a PM template.

For the sake of the forum, posts non related to the thread or a waste of a thread should be deleted and the posting user sent a simple template reminder to read the house rules. It is up to us then to read the rules to see what we did wrong, no more baby feeding, too many members for that.

If there is an issue with post quality this is more difficult a problem than rubbish and jokes and moaning and it is very easy to "Cross the line" when the line is opaque
_________________________________________________________
Dear User

We have received a comlaint about "Your Post" and have decided that you have broken one or more of the Forum rules. The post has been removed. Please ensure you read the rules carefully regarding posting on the forum.

Thank you.

Admin
_________________________________________________________

I think with this, there is no discussion or hassle of Mods, rules simple as, if you want to keep doing that your posts will just disappear and lets face it, if someone refuses to get the point disabling write access for a bit might change their mind, only for the really troublesome granted.

@John.
It's a good thing that there is a mod always on, its the point aint it, for the protection of other users\Website, some of who that may be under age 18 maybe? and because of the legality\morality of things that a forum can hold on threads. Its good mate that you post a lot, first I ever heard of someone posting too much lol the content is the detail not to be overlooked so no probs there, also when someone new posts a thread and noone replies if new can be a little disheartening so fair play.


What has to stop, and I am guilty of one count is "Bitching". As we all know outside influences can affect our judgement on here at times when things aint peachy, it bleeds onto posts at times, report a thread, dont waste more posts replying as such, pm a mod, they delete it, problem solved, no 3 page discussion.


Mark


P.S. Re spell checker. Learn the gdamned word, doesnt take forever, do not depend on spell checker, what happens when you hand write? Microsift are making people dumber with this rubbish.

Threating abusive or insulting behaviour even by PM should result in one warning and then a complete ban, we dont need that at all.

Location D.11
Last edit: 27 Jun 2010 13:25 by Ma (mm mm).
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27 Jun 2010 13:14 #9 by Tetra (Tetra)
duzzy1 wrote:


just one or 2 suggestions i have which i think might make a difference .

1. the social/rubbish section ( only in my opinion ) is a section which should not appear in the list of recent posts . I'm not sayin close it down , just make it so that the posts put in there , do not appear in the latest posts list on the homepage .

2. Every users profile has space for name , address etc ... but also has a section to fill in msn address . So if someone would like to have a chat with another member about something non fish related , then why not fill in ths information and let other members add you on msn or yahoo or wotever other instant messaging service you may use . This ( again only my opinion ) would take the pointless comments away from the forum and keep it totally fishy .

Marti


These are great suggestions and should be put into affect if possible.

I would vist the forum every 2-3 days maybe more.Lately fish content has gone down and the social and rubbish section has dramatically increased. I have no problem with off topic non fish related threads after all this is what the social and rubbish section is for but attacking other members is over the top JohnH has been doing a fantastic job as mod and has gone out of his way to help me on more than 1 ocassion. Some members may be annoyed because fish content has gone down and were seeing more and more non related fish topics but this is because of the news feed/recent topics on the homepage shows up non fish related topics which should be changed like suggested problem solved. Another point id like to add is I think we could learn a bit from viewing other fish forums and taking some of the good bits from them like a chat room monthly newsletter tank of the month/year changing the layout of the forum (Pms location avatar size).
I know that some changes maybe costly but I'd have no problem to provide a yearly small donation to the forum and maybe get a tag ling under your avatar saying "I support the ITFS" like some other fish forums do.
I certainly hope the forum does not close down or run itself into the ground as it would be a huge step backwards in fishkeeping.

Padraig
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27 Jun 2010 13:22 - 27 Jun 2010 13:23 #10 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re:Some ‘personal’ thoughts from me as a Forum Mem
I agree with the last Post and the idea of paying a small subscription if necessary is a good Idea but as has been said before, there are Children/minors on the forum that aren't either themselves, able to contribute or have Parents that might be disinterested in the Forum and their membership.

As was said, leave the social and rubbish out of latest posts and have it as a side menu, do not allow members to make it known in any other post that they have contributed to an off topic thread in the Social and Rubbish section.


In the Heel of the Hunt it's down to common sense and respect.

Kev.
Last edit: 27 Jun 2010 13:23 by stretnik (stretnik).
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27 Jun 2010 13:31 #11 by Ma (mm mm)
stretnik wrote:

In the Heel of the Hunt it's down to common sense and respect.

Kev.



I totally agree Kev, but who can honestly say they have always acted as such at all times under all circumstances, and with many of us, a slip can happen to a lot of people at different times, no major offence singlularly, but over all can be a problem as we have seen. This is where the rules pick up the slack and put a stop to these incidents in the beginning, they have been left to fester a bit, firm quick action needed as has been shown, Mods are absolutely essential to the smooth operation of all things forum.

Saying this, I meant common sense, respect should never be lacking.


Mark

Location D.11
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27 Jun 2010 13:37 #12 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re:Some ‘personal’ thoughts from me as a Forum Member
I think the Spell checker is a great tool, given we can have, foreign members, Dyslexics, People with learning difficulties etc etc etc accessing the Forum, it's the same as a ramp for Wheelchair user.

Kev.
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27 Jun 2010 13:44 #13 by dar (darren curry)
lets round up the lads who are illiterate who can't spell, and anyone who wants to be social and hide them in a corner or brush them under the carpet, we could put them all on a train and tell them they are going to a happy place, load them into large shower rooms and drop in come kind of cyanide

where is the spell check on fire fox or will it be a rule that members have to use google chrome or internet explorer? maybe fax of your leaving cert stating that you passed english before having your membership approved could be an option

to prevent people talking social and rubbish delete the damned thing, you cant give people the option of talking then publically berate them for doing so, and by deleting it you might find these people feel some what oppressed and hopefully for the sake of the forum (or forum members who are bothered by this) they will leave


excuse me if i spelt something wrong

Check out the angling section, it is fantastic
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27 Jun 2010 13:45 - 27 Jun 2010 13:47 #14 by Puddlefish (Colin McCourt)
Three strikes and your out rule :cheer:
Preceded by A word in your shell...(strong words from the Mods) after that then I think repeat offenders will be left in no doubt that they should get with the program or jog on.
Regards
C
Last edit: 27 Jun 2010 13:47 by Puddlefish (Colin McCourt).
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27 Jun 2010 13:47 #15 by duzzy1 (Martin Kennedy)
i don't think anybody said anything about deleting the social/rubbish section darren .
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27 Jun 2010 13:49 #16 by dar (darren curry)
i said it

Check out the angling section, it is fantastic
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27 Jun 2010 13:50 - 27 Jun 2010 13:51 #17 by Ma (mm mm)
dar wrote:

lets round up the lads who are illiterate who can't spell, and anyone who wants to be social and hide them in a corner or brush them under the carpet, we could put them all on a train and tell them they are going to a happy place, load them into large shower rooms and drop in come kind of cyanide

where is the spell check on fire fox or will it be a rule that members have to use google chrome or internet explorer? maybe fax of your leaving cert stating that you passed english before having your membership approved could be an option

to prevent people talking social and rubbish delete the damned thing, you cant give people the option of talking then publically berate them for doing so, and by deleting it you might find these people feel some what oppressed and hopefully for the sake of the forum (or forum members who are bothered by this) they will leave


excuse me if i spelt something wrong




Lads this is not a spell checker debate, this is exactly what is being talked about, off topic. It goes without saying that it does not apply to the challenged but only the lazy and take it or leave it it was a post and not personally directed at anyone so I would advise less emotion over this..

Mark

Location D.11
Last edit: 27 Jun 2010 13:51 by Ma (mm mm).
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27 Jun 2010 13:54 #18 by Turner85 (David Turner)
John u reply to threads cause you know what you are talking about,Any reply i have got off you has been
helpful in one way or another.
U dont reply just for the sake of it or to get your post count up,like some people.
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27 Jun 2010 13:58 #19 by dar (darren curry)
yeah i second that, i find John is by far the most helpful of all mods and is the pillar of this society

Check out the angling section, it is fantastic
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27 Jun 2010 14:03 #20 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re:Some ‘personal’ thoughts from me as a Forum Member
Turner85 wrote:
[quote
U dont reply just for the sake of it or to get your post count up,like some people.[/quote]



This is exactly where a PM should be used to convey a sentiment such as this, the reference to posting in order to elevate post numbers is capable of causing the very thing the Moderators and Admin are trying to stop.

John is without a doubt, very capable of defending his position, there are Members of this Great Forum who rarely post and pm instead.

Kev.
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27 Jun 2010 14:23 #21 by dar (darren curry)
stretnik wrote:

there are Members of this Great Forum who rarely post and pm instead


well maybe they should post and share their information with everyone and there will be more fish related posts or are we not worthy of their presence, seems a bit ignorant if you ask me

Check out the angling section, it is fantastic
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27 Jun 2010 14:29 - 27 Jun 2010 14:36 #22 by Puddlefish (Colin McCourt)
Here here.
It's the height of ignorance that these secret squirrels (for want of a better word)
feel the need to use the PM system rather than the board proper. If they've got anything worth saying then they should be able to confer with the rest of the community otherwise why are they here.
If someone starts a thread and other members offer help on that thread, then to see something like "PM sent" or "thanks but someone PM'ed me and I'm sorted now" is not part of a community spirit.
This definitely needs to be sorted
Regards
C
Last edit: 27 Jun 2010 14:36 by Puddlefish (Colin McCourt).
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27 Jun 2010 14:31 #23 by dar (darren curry)
maybe "they" should use yahoo messages or msn

Check out the angling section, it is fantastic
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27 Jun 2010 14:32 - 27 Jun 2010 14:40 #24 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re:Some ‘personal’ thoughts from me as a Forum Member
I guess they feel they would prefer to avoid the slagging, and the descent of their topics into poor excuses for comedy, if you look at the last few months of Garbage that has been offered by some members you'll have to agree with their decision. There is no obligation on the part of any member to proffer any advice to anyone at any time.

@ Colin, there are no rules stating that anyone has to post anything so I don't see them being ignorant nor do I perceive them as Squirrels.
It's a democracy and let's hope it remains so.

Kev.
Last edit: 27 Jun 2010 14:40 by stretnik (stretnik).
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27 Jun 2010 14:37 #25 by eire1978 (eire1978)
Replied by eire1978 (eire1978) on topic Re:Some ‘personal’ thoughts from me as a Forum Member
stretnik wrote:

I guess they feel they would prefer to avoid the slagging, and the descent of their topics into poor excuses for comedy, if you look at the last few months of Garbage that has been offered by some members you'll have to agree with their decision. There is no obligation on the part of any member to proffer any advice to anyone at any time.

Kev.

kev sorry but u have post as much on where r the mods as anyone
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27 Jun 2010 14:41 - 27 Jun 2010 14:46 #26 by Puddlefish (Colin McCourt)

There is no obligation on the part of any member to proffer any advice to anyone at any time.

This is true in part but hypothetically speaking if everyone chose to PM answers and replies would we have a forum at all. Nothing to share with others then I pose the question Why Bother? Just email me if you want something........:S
Why should others reap benefits from folks prepared to depart their knowledge and they sit back with a muted attitude with nothing to contribute, forums are communities for folks to come forward and offer help and advice not a 2 way telephone service. This in itself would set potential new members having a re-think, is this the forum for me.
Last edit: 27 Jun 2010 14:46 by Puddlefish (Colin McCourt).
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27 Jun 2010 14:44 #27 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re:Some ‘personal’ thoughts from me as a Forum Member
Ah but you see that was not pertinent to a serious or Fish related topic nor did I insult or dismiss anyone. And if you read behind the lines I was as fed up with all of the support for the stupid thread as my last post on the thread should have conveyed. It always seems that the same people tend to support anything that is remotely anti the Rules etc.

Kev.
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27 Jun 2010 14:45 #28 by dar (darren curry)
i'd love to see the percentage of fish related posts that end in insults or being "discredited" i bet it's actually quite minimum

Check out the angling section, it is fantastic
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27 Jun 2010 14:53 - 27 Jun 2010 14:59 #29 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re:Some ‘personal’ thoughts from me as a Forum Member
As you said yourself Colin, you are a relative newcomer, I apologise if I have that wrong but most of the long-term Members here are at a point where they are trying to decide whether to remain as Members and as was said to me in a pm, "you can go but I"m not F"*cking going anywhere" This is the mentality the Mods are dealing with and if you have a solution to it, it will be more than welcome.

The posts had, in the past, been so informative and interesting, now you have to filter through the dross to find the good stuff, your posts as the replies attest should make you realise why the guys have chosen to stay on the periphery, imagine your fabulous recent posts ending up in a slagging match and members ending up talking Bullcrap, how more often would you post?

I agree that the Forum is there to impart knowledge and advice but if it only consisted of Idiots that were here to cause trouble what use would the Forum be?

Kev.
Last edit: 27 Jun 2010 14:59 by stretnik (stretnik).
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27 Jun 2010 14:55 #30 by dar (darren curry)
stretnik wrote:

It always seems that the same people tend to support anything that is remotely anti the Rules


how was it anti the rules? it was in s&r class it as rubbish but where did that thread break any rules

Check out the angling section, it is fantastic
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