Bubble eyed goldfish at 24 degrees ?

Hi All

I saw the above in Hanleys in Cork and think they look great

After talking to Simon in there he said they would be fine in a tropical tank ?

I would be a bit worried it mite be to hot in there for it to survive.

What ye think ?

The original carasus auratus or the grandfather of all goldfish lives during the summer period for a few months even at a bit higher temperatures. Definetly the one you got or are you planing to get has almost nothing left in common with the original one but still many goldfish are breed in countries like israel, thailand, singapore and many other, where temperature are going to be around there or even higher all year around. Don't forget that fish are coldblood creatures and their life expectancy and metabolism is affected by water temperature. Probably he is gonna be happier in lower temperatures but he will still do ok at even more than 24 if you provide a good oxigenation of the water.

barr wrote:

Hi All

I saw the above in Hanleys in Cork and think they look great

After talking to Simon in there he said they would be fine in a tropical tank ?

I would be a bit worried it mite be to hot in there for it to survive.

What ye think ?

apart from the temp issue I would worry about the potential mix of fish if put in a tropical tank (their eyes might take a hammering)..also the p.h values could be quite different..tropical fish can also pick up all sorts from goldfish that they are not as tollerent of. In short I wouldn't.

As Gavin sais i wouldn do it either,a friend of mine kept them in wit his barbs and the poor goldfish took a bad oul beating, half eaten he went to the big white flush, and just after the goldfish died his barbs started to develop a very bad case of ich that near wiped him out,iv never done it myself tho,has anyone here kept them in wit tropicals???
Stuie

A mate of mine has a comet goldfish in a big community tropical tank and he is fine. As Stuie said the same mate kept a bubble eyed goldie in the tank as well but the barbs fleeced him out of it.

For the fancy goldfish, 24 C is not really a problem IMO....although a few degrees lower would be advised.
In summer, it is going to be difficult to get temps below 24 C anyway (well...that is me being optimistic about our summers!!!)

Some of the fancy goldfish, especially true veiltails (haven’t seen many of them around recently), do not do well in an un-heated tank (summer months being an exception).

We keep our fancy goldfish in a lower-end tropical set-up (heater set at 21-23 C) with a good filtration system.

There are a good number of normal ‘tropical fish’ that will be happy with fancy goldfish….and a good number that would not be happy.

It is really the same sort of compatibility issues with any fish, and not just because goldfish are called ‘coldwater’. Eg you don’t put tiger barbs with angel fish, or Tanganyikan cichlids with discus cichlids.

There are major problems with fancy goldfish anyway…..often there are effectively inners (guts and all) from a foot long fish squashed inside a small globed body.
Some individuals are very very good and live for ages, others are not so fortunate and often come to a stage of growth where the inners and outers don’t quite work well together.

Correct feeding and healthy water is probably more of a concern that I would have rather concerns over precise temperatures (so long as they are in a range) and pH (again so long as within a good range).

Goldfish are a rather amazingly adaptable species of fish, and have some almost unique brain biochemistry to allow them to survive things that ‘logically’ they should not.

Hate saying this because I'm bound to ruffle a few Scales...
Kill the folk who developed these wee waddling ungainly man made Fish.!
Same goes for Lionheads etc, I call a halt at veil tails as these seem to be able to swim without any trouble.

What's nice about these fish? I detest the cute tag given to them. If genetic manipulation to cause fluorescence is bad where does it leave Face/body altering manipulation by greedy breeders?

Then you have those sad and ugly Telelescope eyed Gold Fish, what the Hell is wrong with People?

I recently heard that something that used to be used to tease kids in School, namely Braces, are to become a fashion accessory. Are we just Fashion whores or just Ill educated?


Kev.

stretnik wrote:

Hate saying this because I'm bound to ruffle a few Scales...
Kill the folk who developed these wee waddling ungainly man made Fish.!
Same goes for Lionheads etc, I call a halt at veil tails as these seem to be able to swim without any trouble.

What's nice about these fish? I detest the cute tag given to them. If genetic manipulation to cause fluorescence is bad where does it leave Face/body altering manipulation by greedy breeders?

Then you have those sad and ugly Telelescope eyed Gold Fish, what the Hell is wrong with People?

I recently heard that something that used to be used to tease kids in School, namely Braces, are to become a fashion accessory. Are we just Fashion whores or just Ill educated?


Kev.

Hi Kev , everyone is entitled to their opinion . Would I be right in thinking that these fish were "modified" so they have bubble eyes ?

I would have thought it would be a trait of that species ?

Just imagine a Fish trying to survive in the wild, swimming past sharp tree roots and rocks, trying to protect their lovely soft Bubbly little eyes, it hardly serves as evolutionary proof that only the strong survive, I mean, really, could you see the benefits of soft tissue, exposed to the elements as being a natural occurrence ?

Humans have all sensitive organs concealed to protect them, your eyes don't protrude beyond your occipital socket for this very reason.
Released into nature, these would become part of the food chain not breed and pass on defective Genes.


That's only MY opinion though.

Kev.

we could allways give em a pair of goggles kev:laugh:

Kev.

now your talkin
should have gone to spec savers

Brilliant........Even hotter again Kev.....

Ha Ha, now that is TOO funny.

Kev.

fancy goldies should not be mixed with tropicals . they get sicker quicker in hot water . plus your speeding up there metabolism , not a good idea . do some research
on net and see what u can found out.

trish

does it speed up the motabolism, of is it that the bacterium in the digestive system struggle to break down the food at hi temp resulting in constipation, bloating, stress and death

In my opinion, and going by my memory of research on goldfish, goldfish are not necessarily low-temperature fishes.

Hence, there is no real reason why goldfish (particularly the more fancy ones) should not be kept in a tropical set-up providing that they are given good conditions and that the acclimatisation is done properly.

Goldfish are very much eurythermal (can tolerate a very wide range of temperatures).

However, there often lies in a problem……they are able to acclimatise to lower temperatures if the environmental conditions force such an acclimatisation. Once acclimatised, they can’t be just thrown back into warm water: they have to re-acclimatise to warm temperatures again.

From certain research, goldfish are able to utilise oxygen much better as the temperature increases (up to a limit); moreover, it seems as if when carbon dioxide levels are highly increased then goldfish do better at higher temperatures if oxygen is present (and they will then change to use oxygen more efficiently).
It even seems as those the optimal performance for this is at temperatures higher than you’d get in most tropical tanks. (very odd).

Temperature changes seem to induce many pretty special changes within goldfish….eg brain chemistry, brain reactions to low oxygen, and mechanical changes in blood vessels etc.

Goldfish have some great ‘survival’ tactics (up to a limit that stops short of animal cruelty of course). Does that not explain why they have become such a ‘pet-fish’ for so long?

Metabolism is generally increased with increasing temperature up to a maxima (or optimal), but that is not a bad thing.

Higher temperatures will contribute to bacterial growth……but that goes for most things. The answer to that is to keep the fish is good conditions.

Fancy goldfish…..have problems, but having a long intestine unnaturally wrapped into a global small body doesn’t help them problems. Often the quality of food (easily digestible rubbish maybe) will simply agitate any other problems with the fish. Hence, why so many fancy goldfish go ‘belly-up’.

Ian

Did you get them?

UK Goldfish expert Andy Green who runs one of the UK's biggest Goldfish wholesalers/importers, (star fisheries) states on his website that 16,deg,cen is the goldfish ideal, however as with pH, stability is more important to goldfish than actual figures. So in my experience providing there's ample surface area & surface disturbance stable tropical temperatures would be fine for a goldfish. Though adding goldfish means more frequent water changes.
The factor that would make a BIG difference is that Bubble eyes are really better suited to bare bottom tanks because of the obvious hazard that stones, pebbles and aquaria ornaments pose to their fluid sacks.
Beautiful fish but with specific requirements. My advise to anyone would be ; if they've taken your fancy get some but provide a suitable environment. I keep more delicate varieties of Goldie's in bare bottom tanks with plants bedded in Glasses filled with pea gravel

stretnik wrote:

Then you have those sad and ugly Telelescope eyed Gold Fish, what the Hell is wrong with People?


Kev.

I'm almost certain that Stretnik means *ugly* telescope rather than "Telelescope". However, Telescope eye Goldie's, moor's, butterfly's ect are, in the right aquarium conditions, fabulous healthy and beautiful fish.
A friend of mine from another forum has recently used a 9 year old broad tail moor to spawn with a narcreous fantail in a breeding project to create a matt black fantail.

ArmaghAdam you dont care whos toes you thread on, reminds me of a younger me untill the system beat and whipped me into shape, much to the annoyance of my minnions who have little respect for the new me since i abandoned my rebel never say die attitude, but my life is a bit easier and stress free since, it can wind you up getting up in the morning thinking "wat are these shower of ........ upto today"? it is no good wen the other side doesn't give a .... about your ranting and raving. believe me it is easier to bite the bullit, bury the hatchet and get along as even my arch nemisis (yes that's right ARCH NEMISIS) are decent oul skins

ArmaghAdam wrote:

Did you get them?
My advise to anyone would be ; if they've taken your fancy get some but provide a suitable environment. I keep more delicate varieties of Goldie's in bare bottom tanks with plants bedded in Glasses filled with pea gravel

Excellent tip re the glasses filled with pea gravel,caters for the fishes needs.
Gavin

quote="JohnH" post=92007]Right - enough is enough.
I, for one, am totally browned off with your attacks on other members - it's just not on and aggravates them into responding in a similar vein.
This stops now!
[/quote]

I signed up to this forum enthusiastic about the things I would learn and the contributions I could make. I didn't come on here to attack anyone. In day to day life i am as amicable a person as you are likely to find.
Because animal welfare is a cause close to my heart, I responded to what i considered to be a reckless thread with what i admit now, was a little too much zeal. I seriously doubt though, that it warranted the barrage of defencive reply's it received.
To add to that, I've just signed in to see abusive message's in my inbox from a forum user making presumtions about my heritage and prceeding to type secterian drivel!

I regret that another topic thread had decended into futile bickering but i think that has as much to do with the hypersensitivity of the topic author as the overzealous nature of my reply.

Anyway back to the topic in hand, I thought that people might like to see some info on bubble eye's and their closely related counterparts the celestial goldfish.
Bubble eye's @ bristol aquarists
Celestials @ bristol aquarists
Celestials, because of the angle of their eyes would obviously need an aquarium with low light levels. They are also not really suited to a mixed aquarium because like the bubble eye they are easily out competed for food. But would quite happily live with Pearlscale's, Bubble eye's or telescope eye's.

Adam,
Ive kept these fish before and Ive always had the problem of swim bladder disease. Have you found that this is a common problem for them and if so any way we can counteract it? I gave up keeping them as they they always seemed to have difficulties,be it a year in or two years in,I just never had long term luck with them.

Gavin

Fishowner wrote:

Adam,
Ive kept these fish before and Ive always had the problem of swim bladder disease. Have you found that this is a common problem for them and if so any way we can counteract it? I gave up keeping them as they they always seemed to have difficulties,be it a year in or two years in,I just never had long term luck with them.

Gavin

Unfortunately this is very common. In short, breeding is the main cause and not necessarily breeding for extreme body shape. Here in the west, we are to a large degree at the mercy of eastern breeders. Who at the end of the day are running businesses. A notoriously hard breed to produce 'true to type', bubble eye breeders cut corners and while selecting for physical traits neglect to select robust problem free parents. Add to that the fact that a breeder producing fish for profit will not cull less than vigorous fry as willingly as the ameture breeder.

With swimbladder problems, the old addage "prevention is better than cure" is definately true;
Pre soaked sinking pellets. A fast day once a week (or a one meal of pea's day). Stable temprature.

My first course of action fo a fish in trouble would be to isolate them to a stable temp tank. Fast them for three days and feed de-shelled boiled peas for a further three. This usually works a treat.
More controvercial methods include fasting the fish for a fortnight but that would be for really severe cases.

If anyone wishes to see any of the received or sent E-mails, I am quite happy to furnish same with same as the person the Gentleman is referring to is me.

Please delete my post Jh as it doesn't belong here.



Kev.

why are so many old threads being resurrected??

trawling through archives or googling to find answers to similar problems and accidentally reviving very dead topics...

if they are old its for a reason - the thread has been answered - so keep them old. actually i've a brainwave, see ye in the website suggestions section --->

dar wrote:

ArmaghAdam you dont care whos toes you thread on, reminds me of a younger me untill the system beat and whipped me into shape, much to the annoyance of my minnions who have little respect for the new me since i abandoned my rebel never say die attitude, but my life is a bit easier and stress free since, it can wind you up getting up in the morning thinking "wat are these shower of ........ upto today"? it is no good wen the other side doesn't give a .... about your ranting and raving. believe me it is easier to bite the bullit, bury the hatchet and get along as even my arch nemisis (yes that's right ARCH NEMISIS) are decent oul skins

why is this not deleted it's of topic,let's stay to fish topics and not what we think off urselfs.

This is a bit of an old thread that seems to have been churned up. I see a whole load of them recently....there is nothing wrong in dragging up an old thread, but the reasons need to be reasonable.

But I am wondering why it is being called a 'Reckless Thread' as the reason for being dragged up again.
(you may get reckless posts within a thread on some subjects though in some threads...that does not mean the thread is reckless)

A simple question was asked to which different people put their opinions; different people have differing experiences and knowledge: often within such a discussion old urban myths come to the front and that gives opportunity for those to be discussed on an open forum.

What is reckless about the internet are 'specialist' websites (not forums) that dictate this that and the other and may well be wrong without any form of peer review.
This forum, as does any forum, have the chance of peer review.

Now, when I read the posts that dragged this thread back up..... I did not see anything added that contributed to the thread to be quite honest.

ian

I dont see any issue in the thread being dragged back up. The forum works as a library and point of information for people also. New memebers are entitled to thrawl back through previous posts and adding to them then is not an issue I feel. The search function is also very useful and again I often use it when required also.

Its fair to say that Adam appears to have knowledge on the subject being discussed and Id welcome that and his views on the topic. Isnt that the reason we are all here,to share our experiences.
Lets move on together lads.

Gavin