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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

toxic gass release.

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17 Aug 2015 12:10 #1 by paulv (paul vickers)
toxic gass release. was created by paulv (paul vickers)
Any one tried to remove all the substrate froma tank and how to avoid the release of highly poisonous hydrogen sulphate gas. I tried removing small part last week and ended up killing a 2 ft African giraffe cat fish. The substrate is a mix of sand and coral up to 7 inches in places. It's in the tank 4 years now and is high in waste and making the water parameters bad. Any advise or experience in dealing with this problem.

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17 Aug 2015 18:02 #2 by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers)
Replied by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers) on topic toxic gass release.
How did you take it out so far?

I found siphon with 16/22 hose worked well for sand or gravel but I never did a tank that had substrate in it for that long.

I assume the tank is fairly large but I think if I were in your position I would be trying to remove all fish before proceeding start calling if favours for a lot of large plastic bixes and air pumps maybe.

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17 Aug 2015 22:13 #3 by alan 64 (alan)
Replied by alan 64 (alan) on topic toxic gass release.
I'm not sure but I think Paul has a realy large tank with realy big fish so maybee finding somewhere to house them while he removes the substrate is a problem for him

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17 Aug 2015 23:10 #4 by nomad (pat murphy)
Replied by nomad (pat murphy) on topic toxic gass release.
Like Alan and Q said the fish have to be taken out so their not exposed to gasses when you remove the substrate.With a 7in 4 year old base that's like dynamite to fish once its agitated so I would be in the mind of large containers to hold 50% of the water which you would run airstones and assuming you have an external you would run that too in to keep the filter bacteria alive in the largest container that would hold the fish.Then scoop out as much subsrate as you can and with the remainder 50% of water syphon off the the last of the substrate,clean the tank and your back in business..

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18 Aug 2015 11:40 #5 by paulv (paul vickers)
Replied by paulv (paul vickers) on topic toxic gass release.
Your all correct I have a very large tank 1000L with 350L sump. Looks like my only real choice is to remove all the fish into large plastic drums and total empty the tank, start from new. I'm not looking forward to catching a 27/28 inches aro, a 12 inches megladoras cabaple of removing your finger tip and a banded leporinas that can move so fast human eye can't see it. I might try Q idea of using 16/22 tubing to remove the sand. I put in so much sand at the start to accommodate the feeding habits of the giraffe cat fish saddly now dead. It breaks my heart to lose such large fish, he fitted in the palm of my hand when I got it over 3 years ago.

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18 Aug 2015 14:45 #6 by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers)
Replied by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers) on topic toxic gass release.
Hmmm give me a moment to get over the jealousy, 1000l aaahhhh :sick:

I guess it is a risk assessment thing now, the risk of the stress of moving the fish verses the gas.

Does the gas dissolve into the water or bubble to the top when released do you know?

Maybe a Perspex divider and working in sections would work.

Just on the 16/22 it took out gravel up to 6mm for me, obviously on a much smaller scale.

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18 Aug 2015 15:09 #7 by alan 64 (alan)
Replied by alan 64 (alan) on topic toxic gass release.
Unless u have large containers with lids I'd go with the syphon and do it gradually a bit each day

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18 Aug 2015 15:54 #8 by paulv (paul vickers)
Replied by paulv (paul vickers) on topic toxic gass release.
From my limited knowledge the gas dissolves in the water and instantly removes the oxygen. I'm planning in my head a divider to clean the tank in small sections a few days at a time. However stripping the tank and thoroughly cleaning it using Organic aqua to restart it is the best option just going to be a nightmare.

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18 Aug 2015 20:05 #9 by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers)
Replied by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers) on topic toxic gass release.
Can you get some help with moving the fish it would make it less stressful on them maybe, can't imagine fish the size of yours taking too well to being netted.

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18 Aug 2015 20:14 #10 by paulv (paul vickers)
Replied by paulv (paul vickers) on topic toxic gass release.
I have 2 200l plastic barrels to keep the fish in and lots of air stones. Netting them is the trouble. The aro will and has jumped half way across the room. The bigger the fish the more a baby they are and will sulk for weeks after a shock, that's why I'm thinking of a tank divider to isolate the fish while I clean one part. It may take me several weeks to complete the job but less stressful on man and fish.

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18 Aug 2015 20:49 #11 by nomad (pat murphy)
Replied by nomad (pat murphy) on topic toxic gass release.
Didn't know your fish were that big when I posted so agree it would be stressfull for fish that size and there would definitely be some redecorating the room from water damage from the fish : )
Was thinking about hose diameters for syphoning,wouldnt a bigger hose diameter,the bigger the better have much more of a suction pull sucking up the toxic gasses into the hose rather than say a garden hose that would be slow and let gasses escape with only some going up the hose.If you hoovered off say the top inch working across the base checking water level and when roughy half or less is gone refill with fresh.See how the fish are and if fine give it a couple of days or so and repeat,maybe if doing it every couple of days I would maybe do 30 odd % because of the amount of water changes being done,good luck.

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18 Aug 2015 20:54 #12 by paulv (paul vickers)
Replied by paulv (paul vickers) on topic toxic gass release.
I can hire a submersible pump capable of sucking up sand and gravel, I'm thinking it may also suck up any escaping gasses. I've a giant gourami the size of a large dinner plate :woohoo:

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18 Aug 2015 21:09 #13 by nomad (pat murphy)
Replied by nomad (pat murphy) on topic toxic gass release.
Think you would end up paying the hire company for a replacement pump,they can handle some while pumping but not a continual amount AFAIK :laugh:

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18 Aug 2015 21:16 #14 by paulv (paul vickers)
Replied by paulv (paul vickers) on topic toxic gass release.
Back to the drawing board.

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18 Aug 2015 21:28 #15 by nomad (pat murphy)
Replied by nomad (pat murphy) on topic toxic gass release.
inch diameter hose and steady and slow as it goes,tortoise and the hare : )

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18 Aug 2015 21:36 - 18 Aug 2015 21:37 #16 by helix8008 (Tomas Novak)
Replied by helix8008 (Tomas Novak) on topic toxic gass release.
I would also suggest to leave small divider to prevent sand sliding down to already cleaned partition as this could release gasses too when you take out main divider.
Hope it make sense and good luck with it.

Tom
Last edit: 18 Aug 2015 21:37 by helix8008 (Tomas Novak).

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19 Aug 2015 16:27 #17 by Jonlate (Jon Late)
Replied by Jonlate (Jon Late) on topic toxic gass release.
Just something else to think about, if you use a divider what end of the tank will you start?
Because if the gas removes all the oxygen from the water how will you replace that oxygen before it get through the filter and back into the 'fish side' of the divider?
How will you add oxygen back to that water?
Could you run a co2 diffuser on a oxygen tank to help?
I don't know the answer, but it's something else to work out before you start.
Hope it goes well.

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20 Aug 2015 13:14 #18 by ger310 (Ger .)
Replied by ger310 (Ger .) on topic toxic gass release.
I wouldn't take the risk of taking the substrate out while the fish are in there dude,especially with the fish you have!!

I wiped out a whole tank a few years back doing that..........it was in there less than a year and it was only maybe 1 and a half inches thick......decided to take it out a quarter a day......took out the first load,all looked ok,went to work,but when I got home all dead (well 2-3 gasping I think but did not make it)....freaked!! but lesson learned!!

Organic Aqua is the job man.......Hope it all works out

Ger
What do you call a three legged Donkey?

A Wonkey....duh ha :)

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20 Aug 2015 21:01 - 20 Aug 2015 21:10 #19 by nomad (pat murphy)
Replied by nomad (pat murphy) on topic toxic gass release.
www.adverts.ie/fish-tanks/1000ltr-water-tank/8688213 35 euro quick grab this cut off the top and ideal for holding your fish with a good volume of water.
Paul is not online I see so if someone knew his moblile number and gave him the heads up as its for sale in Dublin and his profile says Dublin if its the answer to his problems I,m sure he would appreciate it,cheers...
Last edit: 20 Aug 2015 21:10 by nomad (pat murphy). Reason: p.s

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21 Aug 2015 09:30 #20 by paulv (paul vickers)
Replied by paulv (paul vickers) on topic toxic gass release.

www.adverts.ie/fish-tanks/1000ltr-water-tank/8688213 35 euro quick grab this cut off the top and ideal for holding your fish with a good volume of water.
Paul is not online I see so if someone knew his moblile number and gave him the heads up as its for sale in Dublin and his profile says Dublin if its the answer to his problems I,m sure he would appreciate it,cheers...

Thanks nomad. Holding the fish is not my biggest problem, it's catching them. I have 2 200l barrels I can use.

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21 Aug 2015 09:40 #21 by paulv (paul vickers)
Replied by paulv (paul vickers) on topic toxic gass release.
Because I'm running the tank on organic aquaI can't get readings for water parameters, I'm judging the water quality by the fish health and behaviour. Recently I had an outbreak of fin rot, an indication of poor water quality. I'm blaming the old substrate. I have 3 large pleco in the tank, 2 sail fin and a black line royal. They are very sensitive to nitrite and ammonia. All 3 are healthy and eating good, it's just the nitrates that are high in my tank. PH is stable at 6.2.

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21 Aug 2015 09:50 #22 by paulv (paul vickers)
Replied by paulv (paul vickers) on topic toxic gass release.
Just a word of caution to anyone thinking of buying large plastic tanks like the one nomad kindly told me about in adverts. ie. I'm a truck driver and transport many of these tanks, called IBC, most of them contain dangerous chemicals and no amount of cleaning will make them safe for fish, unless you get them from the food industry and they're used for sugars or distilled water only.

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21 Aug 2015 10:09 - 21 Aug 2015 10:10 #23 by paulv (paul vickers)
Replied by paulv (paul vickers) on topic toxic gass release.
I'm inclined to agree with ger, after losing one very large fish after only removing 1/10 of the sand at one time, perhaps more vigorous and frequent gravel cleaning using my syphon, will keep the water quality more on the good side. I'm lucky that the fish I keep are tolerant of not perfect water quality.
Last edit: 21 Aug 2015 10:10 by paulv (paul vickers).

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21 Aug 2015 14:44 #24 by alan 64 (alan)
Replied by alan 64 (alan) on topic toxic gass release.
The problem u have with more frequent syphoning of the grave is that will go against ur organic aqua regime so maybee it's best to remove the fish and strip the tank out mate

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21 Aug 2015 17:02 #25 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
Replied by igmillichip (ian millichip) on topic toxic gass release.
This is a serious problem that will not be helped by a divider or addition of oxygen (as that is not how Hydrogen Sulphide works as a poison).

It is not going to be easy to ascertain the concentration of H2S (if that is what it is)....and so you may have to assume it is high enough to kill [it is highly toxic note].

The best solution is to transfer the fish to another container with as much undisturbed water as possible and then carefully remove the substrate.

For the future, you need to have a healthy balance in the tank such that H2S levels cannot rise.
Anaerobic areas of the tank are the problem............avoid allowing the nitrates going to zero will also help.

ian
Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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22 Aug 2015 02:16 #26 by paulv (paul vickers)
Replied by paulv (paul vickers) on topic toxic gass release.
Looks like there is no easy way out. I'm sure in the long run I'll have a cleaner and healthier tank. Thanks everyone for their input.

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22 Aug 2015 11:10 #27 by irish-zx10r (James feenan)
Replied by irish-zx10r (James feenan) on topic toxic gass release.
Sorry to hear about your catfish Paul this is a serious matter and needs to be discussed over a few pints lol if you move all the fish to barrels and use 1 inch pipe to suck out everything then half tank of water change would it work. Only other option is swap your tank for my 6ft and i will even give it a clean lol
Something fishie going on here

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22 Aug 2015 12:42 #28 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
Replied by igmillichip (ian millichip) on topic toxic gass release.
Main thing at first is to make sure any remaining fish are safe by simply storing them away from the existing tank before you get to work on riding any H2S.

Once all fish are removed, and assuming the levels are not too high as to be high risk to yourself, you should aerate the tank as much as possible first.....and allow stirring of the substrate.
Then add some normal chlorine bleach (no perfume etc etc and no soaps in it)........even something like Milton.
You can use a decent dechlorinator afterwards to remove residual bleach.

A good old washing of the tank.........and you might as well throw away the old substrate.

Easy enough..........but don't try to treat the H2S with fish in the tank (it can be done.............but the risks are high).

ian
Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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22 Aug 2015 18:30 #29 by paulv (paul vickers)
Replied by paulv (paul vickers) on topic toxic gass release.
Thanks for the solid advice Ian, my tank is due the monthly water change tomorrow, I'll just go ahead and do that and over the next few weeks try and get a landing net that won't catch most of my synodondis fish's fins and harm them catching them.

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22 Aug 2015 18:32 #30 by paulv (paul vickers)
Replied by paulv (paul vickers) on topic toxic gass release.

Sorry to hear about your catfish Paul this is a serious matter and needs to be discussed over a few pints lol if you move all the fish to barrels and use 1 inch pipe to suck out everything then half tank of water change would it work. Only other option is swap your tank for my 6ft and i will even give it a clean lol[/quote

I'll concider swapping the kids but the tank stays.

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