posting comments

ye chris im sure ther was a post about this before but it would be great to get more tips up ther again or maybe like every thing else its probably just practice .hope this is not interfearing with the original topic and if so sorry lads ,cheers ciaran

wylam wrote:

Melander wrote:

I think it would be very bad if it came to a point where members (new and old) will feel that they have to post just for the sake of posting. Quality over quantity.

This is my last post for a few days btw.

Melander

I see your point but I was just giving an example of the way I do things. I wasn't suggesting that everyone spam the forums with junk posts, because as you said quality over quantity.

Cheers Stuart.

I know that, looking at my post again my example was prob. the extreme. Perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Melander

Certain people have different views on things and some people can take a discussion without getting perceived as potentionally perceived as (personal)and some people might have read things or heard things and decide that they are right and are not willing to listen to other sides. we've all delt with people that are always right and can't be wrong no matter how much proof there is and thats not down to age thats down to certain personalities.

I haven't been here for a while as some of my comments misinterpreted and this discussion has been long needed and even in this certain discussion people being misunderstood(ironic).

As regards photo competition some people might not have cameras that will do as low as 1000 pixels either side
and possibly also to do with sponsors of certain comps being a 100+ miles away its not worth winning for some.
Maybe if there could be a website voucher that could be in any sponsors shops and that every single sponsor would contribute to everymonths prize so that just the sponsors that willing to do so don't have to foot the bill.

By that i don't mean every sponsor gives 50 euro but the entire prize fund be devided between.

Hope i made some sense and not MISUNDERSTOOD?

Ok let me clarify what i meant.

1. AS regards 1000 pixels comments as i would like to enter but as many possibly have cameras that aren't capable of that low a setting and if it was if the 1000 pixels limit was increased you might get more participants.
2. The sponsorship thing as in if we have prize fund of 600 euro over 12 months that can be devided lets say by the sponsors.Lets say 20 sponsors (not accurate number) which works out 30 quid each and then this site can lets say a have voucher system that can be used in any sponsors shop which solves the problem of distance as some potential participants perhaps in donegal but see's he has to travel to limerick or some place is a headache.
Plus i take you might not always have a sponsor lined up for each potential month which would mean you wouldn't have to worry about that and i take it not all sponsors are willing to neceserally sponsor a comp which would mean you don't have approach the same sponsors over and over again.

I think most people do things to get something out of it it may not be something you can hold or cash it could be something as simple as nice fish or you have great tank.Or some people get a great feeling when can actually help people with potential problem. i'm sure everybody doesn't sign up just to never comment they may all be fairly new to fish keeping and believe that they could give bad or inaccurate advice and not somebody to lose fish.

Fish keeping is about making mistakes and learning from them i'm sure we've all done. Website running is the same things happen and its just about learning from it.(Rome wasn't built in a day)

Hope it shed some light

@jambomac.....the whole discussion and philosophies about correctness is a big ball-game.

It even brings into question actually is 'right' and what is 'wrong' and what is 'proof'.

Different people come from, or approach from, different schools of thought: maybe by deduction; or by induction; or by convention; and all the other schools of thought.

I've seen threads where someone has mentioned something correct, and all replies to it have brought up incorrect 'proof' against it.
How do we tackle those scenarios?
Should the person who is actually correct back-off in view of everyone else showing incorrect 'proof'?

Interesting.

On the photo competition.....if I were to enter, then I'd simply reduce my pictures to 1000 pixels (easy enough with most software); it would not be so easy to increase and not lose quality by expanding upwards to 1000 pixels.

In the competition rules, it does rightfully allow for normal processing of images (if the rules didn't then it would be effectively barring anyone with a pro DSLR taking RAW images)....and maybe that is something that a thread on how to 'legally' process photos to make the best in a competition would be a good idea eg cropping for effect (I have seen some potentially good photos ruined by having the odd heater wire trailing on the top right corner).

ian

igmillichip wrote:

@jambomac.....the whole discussion and philosophies about correctness is a big ball-game.

It even brings into question actually is 'right' and what is 'wrong' and what is 'proof'.

Different people come from, or approach from, different schools of thought: maybe by deduction; or by induction; or by convention; and all the other schools of thought.

ian

it can be a minefield. different sense of humour, levels of sensitivity, articulation, intelligence, temperament.
thats why a degree of care must be taken when replying to posts. when i reply, i try to take into account the nature of the person (based on their posts, if i dont know them) that i'm responding to (hard neck or sensitive soul )
all a bit "walking on eggshells"

Interesting topic and one that is fairly pertinent. I think that a lot could be achieved here if members were mindful of fairly Standard Forum Etiquette (click hyperlink to view the 25 forum posting tips).

1. Always be aware of the fact that this forum is public. It is not private. It is NOT the forum for a private conversation or rebuke aka Mick McCarthy school of management. Private conversations should be taken offline.
2. The real context of a message is often lost on a forum without intonation and body language so sometimes a comment with the best of intentions may offend. Its best if the reader assumes no offence was intended and if needed privately enquire with the poster for clarification. Always count to 10 before posting a heated response.
3. Not all fish keepers are at the same level of competence or technical ability. Personally I find this forum invaluable and I find myself becoming a real fish geek as I spend a lot of time reading peoples posts and picking up some nuggets.

For me personally, fish keeping is a very rewarding and life enriching pursuit. There are a lot of very knowledgable people on this forum. I'm not going to name anyone in an effort to avoid offending anyone

As an off the wall idea, one suggestion that might be food for thought would be a grading process regarding fish keeping knowledge. I'm thinking of a martial art that I've recently restarted and every student's standard and next goals are clear according to their current grade/belt. With this system no novice gets judged at the same level as a black belt. Also a junior student is clearer as to who are the senior advisors when looking for advice i.e. in every walk of life we meet "experts" with no real clue.

I want also to convery my sincere appreciation for those members who take the time out to post and help the fish keeping fraternity. Its these people who keep our hobby vibrant. I for one will make a genuine effort to contribute more postings going forward. Looking forward to many years of fishkeeping learning with all involved!!

igmillichip i think you answered your own question in a way.
igmillichip quote=Different people come from, or approach from, different schools of thought: maybe by deduction; or by induction; or by convention; and all the other schools of thought.

I've seen threads where someone has mentioned something correct, and all replies to it have brought up incorrect 'proof' against it.
How do we tackle those scenarios?
Should the person who is actually correct back-off in view of everyone else showing incorrect 'proof'?

I totally agree that is a minefield and walking on egg shell's dealing with multitude of people with different attitudes and ways about going about things.
There are those who gunho and go head first and and those who bide their time before doing things.

Maybe where a bit more like the things we keep in our tanks some are great in communities and love to show what we know and others do are work at night and are little more reserved of others and afraid to get things wrong.
Of course there are those who belong only in species only tank and not matter how good the fishkeeper you can't win.

I agree there about the rating suggestion by roscelt as people tend to get a better rating down to the amount of posts. whereas that means somebody highly knowledgeable could be fry and somebody that like just say hello
to everybody could be seen as higher ranking and more knowledgeable but be practically new to fishkeeping.
But how do people than there new rankings more so down to people hitting thank you button when give good advice?

Jambomac wrote:

I agree there about the rating suggestion by roscelt as people tend to get a better rating down to the amount of posts. whereas that means somebody highly knowledgeable could be fry and somebody that like just say hello
to everybody could be seen as higher ranking and more knowledgeable but be practically new to fishkeeping.

But how do people than there new rankings more so down to people hitting thank you button when give good advice?

I see where you are coming from there but in fairness, it doesnt take long before you can suss wether the poster with many counts is a complete empty head or not. If a numpty with many counts is dishing out bad advice and newbies are lapping it up, generally on forums, this one included, someone who knows what they are talking about will step in and put a stop to it.

As for the question, you will have to clarify that one bro...






Jay

Yeah very true Jay, it doesn't take long to see who the experienced guys are.

Stuart.

dark deep well of dark deep wells !!

It would be almost impossible to give 'knowledge rankings' to people......the best is to suss out who is who yourself and go from there (but, then again if someone is starting out...how could the suss out the good from the crap??)

As an anecdote, I've been in discussion with people who have said 'so and so said this...and they did a degree in zoology' (ie quoting a ranking qualification).
My reaction to that is that at university many of my peers were zoologists (or other subjects as well) and were as thick as two short planks then (fail after fail after fail) and are probably still the same today: and I would not have believed a word they said in favour over what an experienced fish-keeper might say.

Like Mensa IQ tests, ranking is really only a self-fulfilling exercise, and says nothing more about a person than the ranking (or the mensa IQ test result) itself.

ian

igmillichip wrote:

It would be almost impossible to give 'knowledge rankings' to people......the best is to suss out who is who yourself and go from there (but, then again if someone is starting out...how could the suss out the good from the crap??)
ian

I guess the answer to that might be to hope others weigh in and point you in the right direction, but of course, you have to take their advice with a pinch of salt too. Besides arranging to have a few at a reputable establishment, I think all one can do is put some time into a forum and and weigh off each individual as you get to know them, or at least their online personalities. I met a guy here from the forum a few weeks ago for the first time and one of the first things he said was "you are not how I imagined" or words to that effect. That said, he was spot on about a few things we talked about and that was purely through sussing things out and picking things up from posts. Its amazing whats given away after posting for a while to those that are paying attention...

Jay

Viperbot wrote:

igmillichip wrote:

It would be almost impossible to give 'knowledge rankings' to people......the best is to suss out who is who yourself and go from there (but, then again if someone is starting out...how could the suss out the good from the crap??)
ian

I guess the answer to that might be to hope others weigh in and point you in the right direction, but of course, you have to take their advice with a pinch of salt too. Besides arranging to have a few at a reputable establishment, I think all one can do is put some time into a forum and and weigh off each individual as you get to know them, or at least their online personalities. I met a guy here from the forum a few weeks ago for the first time and one of the first things he said was "you are not how I imagined" or words to that effect. That said, he was spot on about a few things we talked about and that was purely through sussing things out and picking things up from posts. Its amazing whats given away after posting for a while to those that are paying attention...

Jay

so how did this guy imagine you as being?

ummm....that is worrying.....do people start to imagine what we are?
Gosh....it is just as well that I am totally normal and sane.

Maybe that is an idea for a fun thread......draw an imaginary written image of each user here...

(no...only joking).

ian

Ian that could be a dangerous thread
but i agree with the above sentiments in this thread, its easy to see after a while who is knowledgable and who is just reguritating stuff from previous threads and other forums, as they say you can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time, heck I've been keeping fish near on 30yrs at this stage and will freely admit to myself i'm still a novice, trying new species etc can put you back to the "crap what should i do next" phase of fishkeeping, i am constantly learning from this forum and others plus many many books in my fishkeeping library that i'm slowly amounting in my bedroom (my otherhalf calls it my fishporn )
i may not post as regularly as i did but i will if i feel i can help or offer advice and i find nothing more satisfying than helping another fishkeeper out if i can. thats what this small community of ours is all about, yes people can pick anyone up the wrong way, i remember an incident when myself and wolfsberg where having a bit of banter and the thread was stopped as it was felt it was a bit contentious, we both got a good laugh about it through pm's but it goes to show, we meant no harm yet someone else reading it thought we where having aggro, suppose it goes down to knowing your audience,
thankfully i know a lot of people on this forum personally and would consider most i have met as mates yet there is the odd 1 or 2... enough said on that one.. but as i was saying because i know some people i can have banter with them but wouldnt go as far with newer people banter wise till i got to know them as it may be misinterpreted.. as they say Knowledge is power but a little knowledge in the wrong hand is dangerous..
just my thoughts
Seamus

sheag35 wrote:

. but as i was saying because i know some people i can have banter with them but wouldnt go as far with newer people banter wise till i got to know them as it may be misinterpreted.. Seamus

good point shea.
on a personal note i am more inclined to respond to threads when i know the writer is a regular contributer to other peoples threads. there was a very good poster on a while back who put up excellent articles and pics, but he never contributed to any other posters offerings, and eventually i and others began to drift away from responding to this individual, as it was apparent he was on a selfish mission. so when the adulation decreased he sulked off.

derek wrote:

sheag35 wrote:

. but as i was saying because i know some people i can have banter with them but wouldnt go as far with newer people banter wise till i got to know them as it may be misinterpreted.. Seamus

good point shea.
on a personal note i am more inclined to respond to threads when i know the writer is a regular contributer to other peoples threads. there was a very good poster on a while back who put up excellent articles and pics, but he never contributed to any other posters offerings, and eventually i and others began to drift away from responding to this individual, as it was apparent he was on a selfish mission. so when the adulation decreased he sulked off.

You're almost sounding cynical there Derek.

That has made me think though, I'm not too sure that I have actually started many threads: I should check and maybe get starting new ones instead of jumping onto other peoples threads (but, then to start a thread means I have to come up with ideas first. Ummm)

ian

igmillichip wrote:

That has made me think though, I'm not too sure that I have actually started many threads: I should check and maybe get starting new ones instead of jumping onto other peoples threads (but, then to start a thread means I have to come up with ideas first. Ummm)

ian

i would regard you as one of the very best contributers to this forum. you have started many interesting topics and are quick to respond and offer expert help and/or encouragement to others. i and am sure most people, appreciate your efforts. (sounds like a school report )

based on recent events on this forum it is with some trepidation that i revisit this topic, but hopefully some of the more reasonable and responsible posters will voice their opinion and stand up to be counted. i feel it is important to try to get back to our main purpose as a forum where fishkeepers can share knowledge ask questions and make suggestions without fear of being ridiculed or insulted.
it is particularly galling to see even a sniff of cyber bulling or ganging up on a poster who dares to make a suggestion or express an opinion. it is not possible for all people to agree on all subjects and a good clean debate is healthy and educational, but we must accept opinions and agree to disagree without resorting to overly emotive and insulting responses, esp when hiding behind an alias such as jam sandwich etc.
accusations or comments about cliques and inner circles are tiresome because thats the way human society works and we cant change it, we only have to look at the state of this country to see how the system of inner circles prevails.
my pet hate on this and all other forums is the use of an alias to hide behind when involved in heated debate. i have no problem with somebody using these nicknames when discussing normal subjects. it is just that if someone wants to throw out insults i want to at least see their name.
ps have absolutely no problem when the nickname user is known or puts their name at the end of the post such as viperbot who we all know is jay.
anyway just a few viewpoints and would hope any response is reasonable and objective, but i have no intention of falling out with anyone with a different opinion.

What are the chances that some of the Posters might " dumb down slightly " the advanced content and Language used for the benefit of those in their, say, formative years in education or should we include a Rogets Thesaurus link on the Page too?

Kev.

OK forum name jambomac name james.

What did that prove? To get initial approval to post i had to give a lot of details that i don't think everybody had to supply as i don't see the same kind of information underneath their avatar and with hackers being able to hack sony what is this sites chances.

It's not that their are cliques it's the denial of them that annoy's people. I don't take kindly to bullies and if i see injustice i'm not afraid to speak up as you may see some of these cliques try and act against members that don't benefit themselves.

I hope the jam-sandwich isn't in reference to anybody.

As Darragh Sherwin, the OWNER and SOLE FINANCIER of the Forum has just said on the "Club" post, it would be an absolute nightmare to have anything resembling a seperate chat-room , Club or whatever and I think this is where all of this originated.

Just ask questions, if you know the answers or think you do, offer them, let others inject their theories and if they disagree with a former answer, say so while backing it up with examples of their own experience. What I really want from a Forum like this is anectdotal references, things that we have experienced and how we rectified problems through experience, as simply as possible without either scaring off potential posters or new members.

I remember my first post where I said something like, " I know this might seem like a stupid question but " and the reply was the old one, " there are no stupid questions only stupid answers" why can't we just use that as the Forums Motto?

Kev.

Sorry guys, lost in the mists of Knackeredness, I didn't even check the Date of this Thread, my apologies, dismiss most of what I wrote above...

after reading this thread , and after self admittance to recently being ( for want of a better description ) " a lurker " , i must agree with all sentiments so far . Yes the forum is a learning tool , and without doubt we have the benefit of numerous extremely knowledgeable fishkeepers here . There are certain people here who contribute way more than others ( and i am one of the others ) and these people are an asset to us all as hobbyists .

I guess everybody's situation differs greatly from time to time , and i know in recent months since staring a new job , i just have not been on line as much as i used be . I have however been keeping an eye on the forum everyday and thru my new job ( not naming names as not a forum sponsor ) i have sold quite a few aquariums to new fishkeepers , each one with the recommendation of logging on to the forum , becoming a new member , and reading the beginners section to start .

Would hate to think that a resource as valuable as this forum would ever take a down turn as i have enjoyed every minute of my time on here , and thru a few trips ( by 2 culties ) to the big smoke , have met numerous people who i would consider good friends .

Regards

Martin

Hi All
Just a couple of points on this topic,
1) I am an inexperienced fishkeeper and am unwilling to offer advise too freely in case I lead someone else astray. I only ever post on topics I can offer my own personal experience on. This makes me an infrequent poster and as a result I am one of those that the forum in several different threads has an issue with.

It is not that I am just taking what I can get, it is purely that at this point I cant offer too much. Who knows maybe in the future I will be posting loads of replys as one of the more experienced guys(yeah right)

2)it is up to every respondant on a thread to read thoroughly the original post and see whats required.
Sometimes a thread can be a genuine plea for help even if its not clearly written.
We must all take care not to offend while not compromising the truth.
There are ways of saying things and the suggestion to read and re read is excellent.

When I took on the job I am in now I was advised to save all emails to drafts for an hour especially those written in anger. A message sent cannot be taken back. re read after calming down and then click send.
Anyway enough waffle from me.
Pat

That facility exists in the PM section, you can retract it before it is opened by the intended recipient.

Kev.

Now you tell us Kev

LOL

Kev.