club members only section

This thread is really only going one way it seems folks.
But I (as a forum member only) do feel that It's you guys, the more experienced people in the hobby, have the most valuable info to share.
Kev (stretnik) is probably the most active person on the forum, and his advice (and free asassin snails !) have helped me out on many a topic so his views in particular should not be discounted.

Also on a side note, and not to create an other issue, I know and have known people who are/were unfortunate enough to be afflicted by DRUG ADDICTION. I think the term "Junkie" is derrogatory.

Just my tuppence worth !

Paddy

The way I look at it is that there is already a dissapointing element of elitism on this site. This thread is just a manifestation of that in a more obvious way. Comments such as 'real African cichlids', meaning to the exclusion of Rift Lake fish, as well as the umpteen times I have read the snobbish view that somehow discus are not 'real' S.A. cichlids, does not help any newcomer to this site. I keep fish that fall into both these categories, so perhaps take those comments a bit more personal than others, despite the or that inevitably follow.

And now this suggestion that paid-up members should have their own Private Club is insulting. I couldn't agree more that this reeks of an 'US and Them' mentality. I have no issue with the idea that maybe group PMs can be used for private discussions, but why couldn't everyone have access to this option? Kev already mentioned that there is a Social and Rubbish section where, well, non-fish related social and rubbish can already be discussed. As for the question of what would be the consequences of such a Private Club being formed- I'd simply stop using this site and use another. If that's what the Moderators want, fair enough. As has been made perfectly clear, they have the right to vote on such a suggestion. And when Moderators make such swimmingly unemotive and balanced comments such as,

'Excellent idea number 2. The first one was a club members section.

Might be worth actually posting again.'

... I'm sure it would pass quite handily and all of us annoying newcomers could just toddle along somewhere else with our bothersome queries.

L

Us and Them
And after all we're only ordinary men...

And who knows which is which and who is who
Up and Down
And in the end it's only round and round and round
Haven't you heard it's a battle of words
The poster bearer cried...

just the whole idea of it is so snobbish and ignorant.as i said are the higher supierer admins and club members sick of hearing about our modest storys or problem s or new fish.



If this was to happen let them have there elite club members section. but block them from seeing our posts.


Let them have chit chat between friends and post there a4 essays to each other and we (the others) will stick to our part of the forum and try get it back buzzing.



I feel we took 2 steps forward after the lurkers thread now taking 15 back


in my opinion its people with that attitude that is turning people off the forum.


Craig

I think that there is some snobbery going on here throughout this thread in general.

To say there is a clique within the various clubs is utter crap.

I've been a member of a club here in ireland for less than 9 months, but I don't see a clique and didn't find a clique when I joined.

On the otherhand, maybe non-club members should be seeing the in-depth discussions on what chairs and tables are needed for the next show; maybe we would all get a PhD by knowing the heavy black cloth used for the show tables is difficult to iron.

We'd be lost without that private knowledge.

As for 'real african cichlids'.....I am sick and tired of the snobbery and elitism surrounding the idea that 'africans mean malawi and tanganyikans' but WTF has that got to do with setting up chairs, tables and projectors?


ian

Daragh_Owens wrote:

john wrote:

so if say at the next itfs agm it was decided that we wanted a private section what would the implications be.dont get me wrong here this would have to be put forward and voted on.

Excellent idea number 2. The first one was a club members section.

Might be worth actually posting again.


Daragh

I wonder why people are losing confidence in this site and not posting.

They only want the rest of us here as the sponsors won't pay for a site for about 20 people. I'd like a sponsors view of this idea.
Elitism will always exist, its usually out of fear of there ideas being challenged

Ian nine times out of ten if you don't notice a clique your in it. If your not talking about the A**hole across the road you are it.

where did projectors and black cloths come into this would love to know your looking from the inside out.

My opinion of fish show's would be cruelty to animals but that's a different thread and i wouldn't want to get into that.

By the way not calling ian an A**hole just in case there's mass offense

Ian,

Setting up tables chairs and projectors are for club meetings with an average attendace of 20 according to John G - nothing to do with this forum. As for shows, well, 180 fish displayed by a whopping 18 people.

Enough said.

Dave

Jambomac wrote:

Ian nine times out of ten if you don't notice a clique your in it. If your not talking about the A**hole across the road you are it.

where did projectors and black cloths come into this would love to know your looking from the inside out.

My opinion of fish show's would be cruelty to animals but that's a different thread and i wouldn't want to get into that.

By the way not calling ian an A**hole just in case there's mass offense

I take no offence.....anyone can call me what they want.
If I didn't expect my views to be challenged then I would not post them. I'm too self critical to be worried about what anyone says about me.

I was in fish societies for many years up until the mid 80s. I walked away from them because of the snobbery and elitism and clique that was going on especially as my sarcastic comments to snobs are not well received. I spot a clique when I see one.

There are more to fish clubs than shows......they were just the type of boring details examples I was using.
It was probably just a poor example to use, but you get the drift of what I'm on about (we could change the scenario to being organising the next talk or reviewing the budget accounts)

To give an angle from where I see things:
I have co-formed 2 non-fish national societies here in ireland. Both have had aims to tackle the problem of snobbery within the particular subject matter as that is one of my personal missions in life (yes...us hippies do exist even if we are mistaken or mis-guided).

Speaking from experience (and let's face it, our own experience is the only experience we have), it is easy to have a snob-ridden club; but a chairperson trying to lead a non-snobbery society is very difficult and can lead you into being unpopular (but I don't see things as being a popularity contest).

The waning of people on this forum is of concern, and possibly a topic for another thread.
In my opinion, one of the biggest problems is a lack of humour or taking things a bit too seriously too often.
Take your subject seriously, but never take yourself too seriously...would be a good motto.

As for projectors for 20 people, DJK, it doesn't matter if there are 2 people, 20 people or 200 people.
To suggest that 200 people is worthwhile and 20 people is not is a little snobbish to be honest.
But I guess that you were not suggesting that 20 people are not worthwhile.

ian

JohnH wrote:

"They only want the rest of us here as the sponsors won't pay for a site for about 20 people. I'd like a sponsors view of this idea.
Elitism will always exist, its usually out of fear of there ideas being challenged"

Let us get this straight - no-one receives a Cent from Sponsors...OK, the Club gets some help in the way of occasional Raffle Prizes for meetings.

The Sponsors are approached to give you - the Forum Members - Competition Prizes, nothing at all is kept for the Forum upkeep - this is all paid from the pocket of the Forum owner, Darragh Sherwin.

To suggest anyone receives anything from the Sponsors is - frankly scandalous.

Perhaps if you are suggesting otherwise you should think again and apologise to the people who give up their time and effort to keep this Forum up and running, having done it myself I can tell you it's a pretty crappy job when you have to listen to this sort of rubbish!

John

Scandolous a bit big i'm not talking about taking secret brown envelopes .
Sorry if in confusion the title sponsors thought it actually meant what they are. So they just advertise here for free i think then the name sponsors needs to be changed if that's the real case.

quick input here, and just my opinion, why not set it up this so called "paid members section" say for a trial period of 2 months, if it works well and good, if it dosent scrap it, i wouldnt like to segregate the forum this way, but if thats what the majority want then do it as a trial... this whole arguement seems a bit trivial, i joined the ACA & BCA site a while back, they have a members only section but the only time i dip into that part of the site is for their online fishkeeping magazine which is done a few times a year, otherwise its the main site for me.... so if this is what your aiming to do with the members site as a way of raising funds for the itfs to grow, well then i'd join for that reason, but purely to have a place to chit chat or talk about recent meetings, to me that would hold no appeal

just my 2 cents

So john they don't pay anybody in cash but in prize's is that right.

Like the women who can't pay the landlord. well we all know how that ends

John cash and payment in kind workout as the same thing as stated by yourself just kind of shot yourself in the foot there.

I think that JohnH was putting forward the context that “sponsors” do not pay monies towards the forum itself.

What the sponsors offer in prizes goes directly to the well deserved prize-winning-forum-members (as voted for by other forum members).

ian

John i'm clearly not trying to belittle any forum and sticking words in mouth won't make it so.

John its not my opinion of the moderators as others have voiced there concerns but you seem to single me out.Why?

John every post i have made on this thread has been to preserve this forum for everybody to have access to every inch (fair and square).

So if you come down from that ivory tower of yours and open your eyes you might be able to see things clearly.

John your comment could be deemed that your calling me a troll why because i don't your views on things.

The vast majority do not want this area set up, but yet people within the clubs think if they keep pushing the idea it will get through.

John so your all for this segregated area i take it