An old chestnut...

Hi John,

you raise a good point.

From personal experience, it tends to be the usual suspects that reply to posts raised looking for help and advice. That is not to say we don’t see valuable input from some of the newer forum members too. I think it was Kev recently pointed out that we should be cautious about treating "newbies" to the forum as beginners in fish keeping. Something we see quite a lot when new forum members post to their introductions, is that they have been viewing the forum for some time and decided to join.
I think that it can be daunting at times on the forum, do you post a reply on a subject where you have helpful input but don’t know all the details and science behind it? I have to be honest, I have often seen posts asking for help or advice and been somewhat reluctant to reply based on the fact that folks like Ian and Kev would have a much better answer than I would myself. I have on several occasions posted detail in response knowing this and had the lads can give a more solid explanation of the answer, and on occasion they indeed have done so.
I could take this as being a statement that I don’t know what I am talking about, or I could take it that they are actually giving solid advice to the person asking the question. I happen to take it that its the latter In such cases, I could think "what’s the point" and not reply to threads on water chemistry or plants, or actually do as I do, give the best input I can and take it as a chance to learn from the more experienced guys on the forum I think this is a key point! its an open forum, we are all here for the same reason and we are all still learning too. I don’t know anyone on the forum who considers themselves to know all there is to know on any given subject.
I am sure there are lots more people out there with vast experience in the hobby who dont post as they feel they dont have all the facts. As I said, this is an open forum, we all have to start somewhere and we are all learning more about the hobby all the time. If we can encourage more members to treat the forum as a chance to learn more about the hobby, then I believe we will get more participation. I have often posted replies and had Kev or Ian for example give better clarification on what i have stated. I have actually learned more from this. The fact is, not all of us are qualified chemists, horticulturalists etc, however a lot of members still have a valuable input based on experience.
I think too, there can be a reluctance to post what may appear to be a stupid or basic question. I think looking through posts on the forum, its clear that very few posts are treated as such. As they say, there are no stupid questions, there are however ignorant answers. I think its fair to say, we don’t see ignorant answers much on the forum.

We need to build an environment on the forum where people feel they can give an input rather than feeling the usual suspects are going to answer. If the forum goes down that road, we will end up losing members as posts go unanswered. We may as well just have a forum where you submit a question and have a panel of experts only reply to topics in their area of expertise.

So to finish my rant "Come on people, I know lots of you have significant levels of experience" so If you go to the trouble of logging in, then please make a contribution even the newcomers to the forum and new comers to the hobby have valuable input. It’s often a case of a fresh pair of eyes looking at a problem for the first time will provide a better solution

Cheers,

Bill.

BillG wrote:

I don’t know anyone on the forum who considers themselves to know all there is to know on any given subject.

well i know one or two that fit this category lol. although luckily they rarely last and most head off to buy and sell or donedeal.

but back to the main topic, i reckon more good threads would be started if there was more feedback or questions/comments which would serve to expand and keep the debate alive. there are loads of really good discussions on most subjects with great information and debate in the archives of the forum and it would be good to resurrect some of these to re open the subjects for those who missed them or to add new thinking or ideas.

My Bone of contention is the "that's a nice Tank, it should sell well" comments, they aren't beneficial, they only serve to bump the Post count numbers which seems to be motivation in the replies... is there a possibility that the post count scores could be removed leaving the status like, Discus, Guppy etc.

Kev.

this has come up before and does need repeating every now and then to try kicksstart things .i for one am a lurker i dont post half as much for the amount of time im on here.i also agree with what bill says about not posting because you know the lads can give a better explanation ,is it laziness or is it a fear of saying something stupid .personally my writing wouldnt be as elegant as somepeople and when i read back on some of my posts i feel as if i could of come across as a smart ass.
i do also agree with what kev says about post count numbers but with members being able to see how many post they have in their own profile.
im now off to start a thread ive been thinking about.
john

Some interesting points raised. I tend to be a 'lurker' as I am just looking for advice and information and previous posts can often give me some advice or information. So, if I see some good advice, (which I did not know I wanted to know), I then do not have to ask the question! I suppose I could put in my 'two pennorth', (can you tell I'm from Yorkshire?) for what it's worth, but when you look at the number of posts some people have, you tend to think that those people are the knowledgeable ones. Anyway, I am going to think of some questions I can ask now!

I don't really like responding to these sorts of threads,but you asked,so here goes!

I have gripes with any forum,just like any thing in life,there's always the little 'niggles'.

When it comes to fish forums,and in particular,ones based in this country,I find that they suffer from lack of interesting threads from the more 'established'and 'experienced' keeper.(I must point out here,that I know a few keepers who have amazing fish,and have bred real stunners,but have never been on a forum in their life.It seems some people seriously believe,if it hasn't been announced on a forum,then it hasn't happened) There are many people on this forum,and who were once regular posters,who have a huge wealth of experience and knowledge,yet they did not share it with the rest of us. They keep,and breed,species a lot of us would be surprised to even hear are in the country,yet never post of these experiences. Why? I don't know,is it that they are embarrassed,is it that they don't want us to know what they have,is it that they genuinely don't have the time,are they selfish? I can't answer these questions for them,as I don't know the answers. Some of these people don't post here anymore,and one or two of them have told me it's because "the forum is boring and dead",well guys,you're the ones who could have kept it 'alive'. Admittedly,some did put up very good threads,very detailed,but due to not getting huge accolades,got in a bit of a sulk and disappeared(check out live food culturing as an example).

I for one am well chuffed when I get a sought after species,and like to let everyone know when I do,if I manage to breed it,you'll hear all about it! I've nothing to hide,I'm not embarrassed about it,I don't think it's something to keep under the covers.

Maybe if these people put up the occaisional thread about these things,then maybe 'newbies' and the rest of us will be inspired,and maybe the forum will have some life breathed back into it.

In my opinion,that's just one of many things that could contribute to a forum not having the potential it could,there's many more,and some of the earlier posters have raised some of these valid points.

I'm being slightly hypocritical here,so I better go off and try take a half decent photo or two.

Very nice Dave.

Kev.

Ow bist?
Dunna know if ya ewkins withut rhotic isoglosses wilf si sum a bit daffish.
Burra, dunna tan cus wi rozzen-in so long as wi dunna be ovil

It is English for saying "Hi,how are you?" (ow bist?) and "some folk who are not necessarily in-the-club (ewkins, or folk not of our hills) or familiar with local speak (using a rhotic pronunciation) are often shy (daffish)", but that "so long as there is no arrogance (ovil), then don worry (dunna tan)simply go-for-it (rozzen-in)".

A forum is a place for people of all walks in life, all levels of expertise, all nationalities and use of language to communicate in whatever way to discuss a common topic.

It matters not what level of qualifications or experience someone has to enable them to comment on a thread.

I speak to people in shops or whatever, and often hear people say that they "don't know enough to contribute".....my query on that is what is 'knowing enough' meant to mean.

Surely, an opinion about a subject is as valuable as 'knowing enough'.
Since when was communication a reserved platform?

I was once a beginner, and was glad to have an environment where (as a beginner knowing very little) I could still air my views and learn as I went.

I am now not a beginner but still know very little, and still learning.

There are many people on this forum who are always willing to help out and unselfishly pass on whatever knowledge or experience that they have. That is really great to see.

I do, however, feel that some lurkers may even be a little selfish with their knowledge. That is a pity if that is so.

My take on such things is that I have gained my knowledge through listening to others when I was younger, and through being educated at the tax-payers expense.....hence, any knowledge that I have is willingly made available to anyone who wants to hear it (or, as in some cases even if they don't want to hear it ).

One point that I have noticed is that only a few Sponsors actually get involved with fish talk in sections that are not their own. I don't think being too busy is a good enough excuse.....surely people do not think that non-sponsors do nothing else in life apart from venture onto a forum? ummmm!!

As for topic subjects, I do get pretty bored talking fish.......favourite car, fav music, what tattoos?, and other often called 'junk' would tend to be the threads that I would spend most of my time on on some other non-fish forums.

On a final note (and I wasn't going to comment on this thread) is never worry about writing something that is 'wrong'. That something 'wrong' might actually be a bigger food for thought than something that is text-book 'right'.

ian

So Ian,any piercings?

Acara wrote:

So Ian,any piercings?

Now that would be telling.

We do have piercings threads on some reptile forums though.
The Music, Tats/piercings, cars, 'mug shots' threads are by far the biggest.
Mind you, being a moderator on them sites means that I always dread having to look at what has been posted in the Tats/Piercings posts.

i do enjoy reading posts where the more knolledgeable are helping the not so fortunate (me being 1 ) and although i know eventually it'll go over my head i try take in what i can... the way i see it is it may be someone elses thread but i'm sure they wouldn't mind more of us voicing our interest in the subject be it to learn or contribute.

on a side note i think ian may have raised a valid point that an off-topic section may bring more members to the foreground and maybe build their confidence to post...

davey_c wrote:

on a side note i think ian may have raised a valid point that an off-topic section may bring more members to the foreground and maybe build their confidence to post...

We already have that section

I would always say that it matters not if somethings goes over ones head. It should not stop anyone posting.
We can all have an opinion if Cadbury's chocolate tastes better than x-brand whether we understand the process or science of tasting or chocolate connoisseurism.

Has anyone ever been to a Wine-Tasting session? what rubbish you hear spouted by experts.....if it tastes like Sarsons Vinegar with a 50 quid price tag, then that is what it what it tastes like irrespective of appreciating the soil pH.

On the Social and Rubbish section.....I personally think that it's location on the forum is a bit rubbish to be quite honest.
I would guess that many people probably log-in to the site and look at the latest posts.....the Social and Rubbish does not appear there and is unlikely to tempt much traffic.
Generally, I only come across a thread in that section when browsing down the forum to look for an older post in a specific section for a link to post on another thread.

Ian

A change in status and name for the social and rubbish section was requested a few months back but it was decided that it would remain in the basement of the forum.I would compare the positioning of that section to an annoying aunt or uncle that you HAVE to invite to your wedding, you put them as far away as possible preferably near the kitchen or toilet.

There should be a more social side to this forum, as it stands the site is very one dimensional.To the "lurkers" who are watching we are all just a bunch of fish nuts that have nothing else in our lives .This is a forum to promote fish keeping and help people, but it does not have any time for socialising.I go through cycles on this forums where i see a run of good topics that i have an opinion on or have some info that i can share, but then i might go for weeks with out posting at all.I'm on here now about a year, just from asking questions and reading posts you never really get to know anyone, sure you know the names and who will give solid advice but never have a clue of what type of person they are.Not everyone can travel to dublin and meet up and have a few drinks and a laugh or go to fish shows and the like.I think there has to be a more social feel to this place or all that will be left is the forsale sections.

Some people might think that inviting this kind of chat to the forum will bring its own problems and issues and it will, but other sites have dealt with it and we should be able to aswell.But the benefits of more site traffic, more participation , more members will out weigh any problems that might arise.

Cheers Stuart.

I do know that this section on the forum can be very tricky to say the least but I dont think it's been utilized enough where it is.could we move it back up the forum above the sponsors and also keep it out of the recent posts on the home page .another suggestion would be to make it like the buy and sell where you have to have so many posts before being able to post here say 30 posts .at least then moderaters would have an idea who there dealing with,another suggestion is have an automatic response from the forum asking people to reread their post and resubmit it if happy .i don't know if this is possible but it could give posters a cooling off period of a couple of minutes .
John

The Social and Rubbish section does have the potential for lots of troll and angst activity, but considering that some of the worse cases of angst-driven trollism has occurred in innocent threads such as "which stones to use" or "is my tank big enough?", could angst get any worse in S&R section?

ian

Once the social and rubbish doesnt appear on the recent posts list I would feel it shouldn't matter too much where it goes although in saying that there was a time however that it turned into a social media site almost like msn with one word replies and witty comments dominating and eventually turning on another.Many regulars including myself got sick of the site for a small spell at that stage and that was a shame. In saying that of course we should look at ways to improve and indeed get to know one another better even if it is online given the geoghraphical spread of members. I'll reply more when I have time to this topic,but I know Ive been out of this site for the past 6 months and will make a more concerted effort to get on it and actively contribute more often.

Gavin