Property Tax.

I recently received this from a Friend and thought I'd share.

DON'T PAY THE PROPERTY TAX !!!!!!!

Household Charge – how to LEGALLY avoid paying it
How you don’t have to legally pay Household Tax!!- You wont get a bill because the charge is a Statute. People need to understand this: A Statute is a “legislated rule of society given the force of law by the consent of the governed.”(Blacks Law Dictionary 4th edition). Who are those it governs? Us, the public.
This household charge is a Statute, otherwise known as an Act of Government and only carries the force of law upon you if you consent to it which means that your legally obliged to pay if you consent or in other words go on to householdcharge.ie and register. Your silence and inaction will also give the appearance of consent. If you do not consent, a Statute cannot affect you in any way whatsoever.
The courts know this and the last thing they will do is tell you. In fact they will hide this from you at every opportunity they can. On the other hand, if you tell them, they will accept it because they know it is actually true. According to the above definitions a statutory instrument is a contract. If you register for this “charge” you are consenting to this statuate ie: signing the contract. This is why the Government are ASKING the people to register and not just billing them instead.


Kev.

This 'message' has indeed been doing the rounds on the internet and encourages tax evasion which is illegal. If people want to investigate the validity of this statement, they should use Google, look at sites such as boards.ie or politics.ie or consult the legal profession.

I doubt the fundamentals of this particular advice :
If you register, you consent to it and if you don't, your silence means you are consenting to it too !

Valerie

The Bloody Bank owns my house, until the mortgage is payed off, and I get the deeds, so the government can chase them for the property tax !!!!!!!

i'm sorry to say, but there is no legality to not paying.
Next year this is going to become full fledged law, and you will have no wiggle room whatsoever.

Personally i don't see what the fuss is about. For the price of a bottle of coke per week......

People here complain far too much on being over-taxed. Bollocks. Here an average of 30% of all your earnings are taken in tax. On the continent the average is 40% and in scandinavia this climbs to 50%!

But what do they get for their monies? Top class public services, well run and efficient, on top of all the notable charts for quality of life, etc.

Here we get the shitty service we pay so little for.

So much hot wind over €2 a week......

@Crusty, the bank does not own your house, you do. the bank has a legal contract with you to say that if you do not keep up repayments they can sell your house to cover their losses.But from the day you signed the contract with the bank you are the sole owner.

@Cruel, What the government are doing now is setting up a data base of all the home owners in the contry, they want your social number they want to know if you're on mains water or have a well and they want to know if you have a septic tank or not.this is all just collecting info so that when the real charges come in they know who to target and how much to charge.The 100euro is just a bluff , it nets them only 160 million this year and thats just a drop in the ocean.But when the real charges come in in 2013 they will be much higher.On the continent they pay 40% you say? we are ranked 5th in europe for cost of living but rated second last in europe for quality of service in the public service sector and and health sector.I would gladly pay the money for something in return.But this is a smoke screen for the government to get their hands on more of your money.Minister Phill Hogan in 2010 was earning 110,000 euro a year and he was asked to take a 10% pay cut, he said NO as his personal circumstances would not allow it.What about all the people out there who are not given the option of saying no? "so much hot wind over E2 a week" wait till its E1600 a year, is there anyone here can afford to pay E32 a week for the pleasure of owning their own house?

Cheers Stuart.

In Scandinavia you get your Money's worth, here you are screwed from the exit of the Birth Canal in Ireland , I'm so sick of the it's only 2 Euro a Week brigade.... these probably make up the majority of the 500+thousand Sheep who are afraid to engage their Spines!! Do you actually know what people get for their Money in Scandinavia? do some research, you'll find they have a better quality of life in their Golden Years than we do here.

Why do people insist on harping on about 2 Euro a Week, it is the invasiveness of the whole thing that annoyes People, the lack of fairness, it's the moaners and complainers etc that has you able to survive a Car crash because some moaner deemed it unacceptable to have people dying in car crashes, , you can use soaps and shampoos because some lefty moaner/complainer decided that it was unfair to have people getting damaged eyes and Skin because no one tested the ingredients, the list goes on but right now... I'm too tired to even bother.

Kev.

I have to advise you that the use of profanity is unacceptable on this Forum, we have young kids browsing here from time.

You know what ? I really think you are wasting you time, On Politics.com and Boards.ie, two Fora I am a member of by the way !! you have those who oppose this underhanded Data collection ruse and those who support it and the degree of ignorance to the reality defies belief, you get the It's only 2 Euro a Weekers copying Enda and you get the yis are all moaning, it'll be fine crowd and you know what, to Hell with them , if they are happy to get fleeced, after all , they are all Sheep, they'll probably enjoy it.

I understand that you want quality services for your money.

But the simple fact, is that you have to pay now, so they can build up the services before you get them.

The cost comes first. Unless we want to as a nation continue to collectively spend more than we earn then this will take time, and payment in advance.

As for wells, etc, this is all information that they should have already, given that you needed permission for it all first.

Also, if that €32 per week led to services worth giving a damn about, then yes, i would be happy to pay it.

Taxes are far too low here. People want advanced medical facilities, special needs schools and teachers in every little village, guards on patrol in every street, etc etc etc. But then when it comes to paying for it all, they wail and moan.

It is not possible for a country (especially one with bugger all natural resources to exploit) to go from dingy 2nd worth S**thole it was in the 80's to beacon of the world in the 2000's....It is simply not possible for a country to develope this fast. The boom raised people expectations far above sustainability.

As the rule of the Forum states " thrash the Post and not the poster" or words to that effect, the same should apply to the ones responsible for the current situation, go after the Money that the Banks stole, not the Public. Before this debacle services were dreadful even though people paid their Taxes in full.

Please don't tell me, after posts making comparisons to other countries and in particular Scandinavia that those comparisons stand up to an Iota of scrutiny, the Countries cited in those comparisons enjoy a much higher standard of living than we do.
If you are going to make comparisons I wouldn't include Scandinavia.

Most of those who argue about the sum involved continually insist on saying it's the sum involved that's the problem or in question , listen up!! IT ISN'T, I am fortunate at a young age to be able to retire tomorrow so the cost isn't the issue it is the blanket charge across all lifestyles and incomes, 100 if you live in a Million Euro House 100 if you live in a 150,00 Euro Flat... Tell me THAT's fair!

I constantly hear, that's just this year, a fairer more eqiuitable Tax weiil be sorted out next year, if that's so, why bother pushing this one through ? Why not do it next year? And do it right then!

What proof have you got that it's going toward Local amenities, please direct me to where there is concrete proof.

Kev.

It'll go to the state, and presumably it'll be divied up from there. There is no proof, but then again, some minister talking about "ringfencing" is never enough proof.

Yes, people pay their taxes in full. But the point i was trying to make is that taxes in full here is not the same as taxes in full in Holland, Germany, France etc.

As for being able to retire now if you wanted, fair dues, you either worked hard or your family did, all of which deserves its reward.

I agree that the system isn't fair, but this isn't a reason to avoid paying altogether. instead of campaigning for change, the people protesting are campaigning for abolition altogether!

Standard in Europe is the annual household tax is made on a percentage of your property value. But this isn't fair either, as this neglects the income going in.

A 100k house with incomes of 200k is more able to pay than a 1 million house with income of 20k.....

A fair, or fair as you can get system, would be a composite of earnings and home value. But this will never happen.

Now, i'm happy to continue this debate, but just realize it is one without end and would one day hit 50 pages....

I do not believe that this tax is being used to improve Domestic Progress.

If a tax is not used to improve measurable domestic progress, then it is a poll tax on people to feed into an economic model that is not appropriate at this time of a crisis.

There needs to be a massive increase in the money spent on public services.

The economists who say that you need the money to do that are the ones who are simply messing around with archaic GDP numbers rather than getting a proper forward thinking life and looking at measuring domestic progress.

Now, I hear people saying....but there is not the money: rubbish.

The UK were pretty much ruined in the 1940s.....they had no money, and owed quite a bit elsewhere....and they built the Welfare State.
To my mind that was one of the most progressive and revolutionary political move in modern politics.
In the 70s, the UK hit rock bottom financially on the GDP scale.....so again they decided to put money into public spending (and I can qualify the quality of education and health that I got under that).

I will get on a soap-box and say that I am appalled at the undermining of the Welfare State in the UK in recent years.

Finland fell through the ground financially.....so their method was to improve domestic progress (and put money into education.....which is one of the best in europe now).

On this household charge, the 'only 100 euro' is a dangling carrot tempting the 'only 2 euro a week' economics to have their special soap-box.
It is the principle.

I am not too sure that places such as Boards dot ie are the best place to discuss this. There are simply TOO many loopers there.
But I don’t really want to get into the side-chat on where such a discussion should or shouldn’t be.

I believe that there needs to be a revolution in the way the government and people think.

I believe that things such as the VHI are means used by Governments to abrogate the successful setting up of a proper National Health System.

There should not be a 2-tire state funded education system (that is why I supported the abolition of Grammar and High Schools in England);

there should not be a 2-tire state funded health system either (that is why I do not have health insurance as it would only partly pay for my treatments, and the tax-payer often pays for the rest).

They are means to jump a queue in profoundly state funded ventures.

I have heard some peers of mine say that they 'paid for their education at university'....... there is no way that their 5000 pound a year towards a PhD in chemistry paid for the multi-million pound worth of equipment they were using. It would have taken 10s of thousands of paying PhD students to pay for such equipment and research facilities.......the tax-payer subsidised the majority of those facilities.

I get really narked when some of my own peers do not recognise that they have a duty to the tax-payer for funding their education.

It is a con-trick to get people believing that 'private' this or that is NOT state funded. There is a lot of state-owned facilities within many so called 'private' ventures.

I used to be on a council committee 30 years ago full of people with their own vested interests...... I had to walk out from the nonsense I was hearing and experiencing.
I was younger had political beliefs, they had financial believes….and I am not a so-called ‘socialist party’ person either. !

Anyways, I am in a ranty mood today.

Ian

Join the Queue Ian, I had the best Night of sleep in ages after being in heated debate with a Labour Party TD on and off all day yesterday.
Victor Meldrew would be hard pressed to find anyone more Ranty than me these Days.
I feel, after all of the truth that has emerged since Haughey and his 1500 Punt Shirts up to the very recent disclosures from the various tribunals, that none of them are to be trusted so to believe them now on any promises that may fall from their lips is beyond me.

It would appear by a demographic I came across recently that the vast majority of Households that have paid up are from Affluent areas, Rentes is a very big Nursery in Kildare, being a Family member would this be why you are in favour? I use the M50, I pay the Toll, I don't give two Fingers and say eff you M50, It gets me from A-B and quickly, It does what it says on the Tin, no ambiguity so I am very happy to pay, in addition, there are alternative routes I can take if I want to avoid paying, it'll cost me in fuel but at least it allows me to choose, this Tax doesn't.

The Horticultural sector is suffering terribly in the current economic Climate and the up coming treaty, something I will be voting no to too by the way, will have detrimental effects on the industry, I'm not trying to be personal here but not everybody has Parents with Money in the bank to build Johnny a House and help with the Bills.

Kev.

My being a Rentes has nothing to do with my being for the tax , and instead everything to do with my seeing the need to balance the public books.
We have a choice. We can either double taxes, or half expenditure, today. And that will only balance the books.....
Rich or poor, everybody has a duty to contribute. It is not fair now, maybe, but it is still a requirement of the bailout we received, the absence of which would have seen us bankrupt.

If you go through my earlier posts you will read that i am in favour because we need higher taxes to fund better public services. I would rather have a high tax high services like on the continent, or no tax no services. Not this crappy middle of the road we have now.

Yes, most people who have paid are from wealthier walks of life. But this isn't really an excuse as people from poorer families complain over the "back-breaking" nature of this tax, all €100 of it, and then have no problem at all paying for €3000 worth of cigarettes each year, or another couple of grand on booze.

As a renter, i am not required to pay the household charge anyway, but i'm still in favour of it.
This will inevitably be passed down to me in the form of higher monthly rent, but i'm still for it.

I'm on the fence on the treaty. Its a choice between being tied further into europe and having access to finance or going bankrupt on our own. bad or worse.... Not so sure it would have a negative impact on my industry though. We don't export so the only thing which would be of concern to me is the health of the home market, which with access to finance from europe would improve in my mind.

The horticultural sector is actually not doing bad at all. Ok sure, landscaping is dead in the water, but garden centres on average are reporting growth in sales. We ourselves are showing sales growth also.

On a side note, has anyone had council staff knocking on doors like they were threatening to do?

does anyone disagree that we need to increase taxes in order to get out of the current mess?
What everyone is against is the half arsed way the current batch of elected fools are going about it.
They are being extremely underhand and devious.(standard political practice)
A straight couple of percent on each tax band would hurt but would be an honest to goodness straight forward attempt to get us out of the crapper.
They haven't got the bottle to do this so instead go a round about way of getting the cash.

Pat, the reason they did it this way is to get your details in order to ease the new Taxes in next Year, that's it, no other reason, well, and the Money too, there is no logic in the whole procedure, apparantly, he was in the Ferryman's yesterday and had a Pint poured over him!!

Kev.

@CruelCoin......yes, the theory of having higher taxes to provide better public services is fine.
But did not Ireland have rather high taxes in the 80s ?.....and the public services were pretty awful?

ian

That was a direct result of the chronic "cute hoor".....

Irish people have always has this weird kind of "screw the man for all he's worth" attitude.
People were in favour, and indeed admired, those who screwed the system and dipped their hands in the pot.

This is far less now, and we should see more bang for our buck.

As a society there is now much more collective outrage over corruption, and the rate of it is plumeting.

Anyways, this is all besides the point. We CANNOT continue to support 50+ bill of services on 30 bill of tax take......
The tax has to rise, or the services have to drop. There is no point arguing that.

igmillichip wrote:

@CruelCoin......yes, the theory of having higher taxes to provide better public services is fine.
But did not Ireland have rather high taxes in the 80s ?.....and the public services were pretty awful?

ian

Very true Ian, anectdotal references to those days are merely that, anectdotal, anectdotes cannot convey the true feelings of that era, one has to have experienced it to have a true understanding of it.

Kev.