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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Fish Pedicure shouldn't be legal

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11 Oct 2011 15:52 #1 by lambo111 (kevin)
I had heard of people getting fish Pedicures but today found out a family member of mine who runs a salon was going to install one she hasn't a clue about how to care for a gold fish neither do the people supplying the fish.

They store between 60-100 garra rufa fish in individial tanks that from what i understand is no bigger than 100 litres of water at most.

No idea about heaters they don't even know if the water will be filtered or how to mature a filter.

Is this legal in Ireland these fish cannot last very long in tanks that small

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11 Oct 2011 23:27 #2 by JohnH (John)
I would agree that these spas should NOT be legal here - or anywhere else, for that matter.

But, as is so often pointed out, abuse of Fish just isn't on the agenda of most of the 'do-gooders'!
If dogs, or even cats, were subjected to such ill-treatment people would be up in arms!

In Poland, to give you an example, Fish may not be allowed to be kept in bowls (the traditional 'Goldfish-type' bowl), and yet, still over here - and in the UK - they are sold openly.

The import of these Fish really ought not to be permitted, it's not as though they could ever be regarded as an 'attractive Fish' and would readily be overlooked if in an LFS for sale to regular Aquarium keepers, certainly an interesting Fish, but would never win any prizes in a Fishy 'Beauty Competition'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not deriding them, just trying to point out that most Fishkeepers wouldn't give them a second glance - so it's pretty obvious to me that they are mainly imported to supply to the owners of salons.

As usual, the advice I would give is that if the LFS is selling Fish you do not agree with (and here we bring in the dyed and tattooed - as well as the deformed, often hybridised, monstrosities) vote with your feet and shop elsewhere.

John

(please don't let's allow this to descend into a 'witch hunt' mentioning shops stocking undesirables...that is potentially against Forum rules anyway - we must just avoid those shops).

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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12 Oct 2011 01:20 #3 by zappalot000 (chris)
Surely the ISPCA must have a problem with that too, once they knew..

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12 Oct 2011 01:32 #4 by fishmad1234 (Craig Coyle)
The most fish i seen in one fairly big tank was 30 i asked about filtration its a built in filter under the seat the water was 25 degrees.the fish swim around eat dead skin witch if it was bad for them they wouldnt do.


Lets put it this way the fish in the pedicure places look a lot happier then the ones i seen in shops

at the end of the day it becomes nite

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12 Oct 2011 01:36 #5 by fishmad1234 (Craig Coyle)
And id like to know why they shouldnt be legal.


What harm comes to the fish


whats the difference between them being sold in shops and being used in salons


People buy fish fry or breed them as live food should that be illegal

at the end of the day it becomes nite

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12 Oct 2011 01:39 #6 by fishmad1234 (Craig Coyle)
Ispca are you serious the fish are not being slaughted or hurt they graze on dead skin on peoples feet


so tell me what is so bad about that

at the end of the day it becomes nite

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12 Oct 2011 01:49 #7 by fishmad1234 (Craig Coyle)

I had heard of people getting fish Pedicures but today found out a family member of mine who runs a salon was going to install one she hasn't a clue about how to care for a gold fish neither do the people supplying the fish.

They store between 60-100 garra rufa fish in individial tanks that from what i understand is no bigger than 100 litres of water at most.

No idea about heaters they don't even know if the water will be filtered or how to mature a filter.

Is this legal in Ireland these fish cannot last very long in tanks that small



thats your family member that has no answers to your questions.

Is that to say every where that stocks them are as clue less about the fish s care

at the end of the day it becomes nite

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12 Oct 2011 09:15 #8 by calvusklein (David K)
Interesting article here
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12733...-dead-skin-feet.html
although it is the Daily Mail, so cant really refer to it as an article!
Without sitting on the fence, there certainly seems to be pros and cons. If salons were to put the money into appropiate facillities (such as filter, heater, UV filter, etc), then what harm is there. But unfortunately reality is another thing, the more cynical side of me would suggest that many of these salons arent doing it right, and are probably just cashing in on a current craze. The fish are probably cheaper to just replace rather than buying the equipment and acquiring the knowledge required to keep them happy.

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12 Oct 2011 09:58 - 12 Oct 2011 10:06 #9 by Valerie (Valerie)
Replied by Valerie (Valerie) on topic Re: Fish Pedicure shouldn't be legal
These fish seem to cost 5 EUR a pop if you were to buy them in the fish shop today. They might not be this price if you were to buy them bulk but it still would be an expensive mistake to kill them all regularly through neglect.
For the welfare of the fish, I hope the systems delivered along are filtered/heated and that there is some 'training' for their keeper along with the delivery, otherwise, it's a dead investment before it even has started (18EUR/30 min in one of these establishments Galway as per as quick search in Google).
I wonder if dead skin is a good and enough of a nutrient for them too.

Personally, it's more about hygiene that I'd be more concerned about ... you can't just throw some bleach in the tank to sterilise it. :blink:

So, IMO, if all the points above were being fulfilled and verified ... fine ... but from what I can gather, it doesn't seem they are. It brings back the whole debate of animal (and human in this case) welfare : the bowls, the monster fish ... There has been more 'progress' made for the protection of dogs, cats and horses but there is indeed a need to extend policies.


Valerie
Last edit: 12 Oct 2011 10:06 by Valerie (Valerie).

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12 Oct 2011 10:00 #10 by Acara (Dave Walters)
Until a law is passed,these salons are going to continue to operate. No law is going to be passed,the country has a few more important things to worry about.
So,is it not better that if it IS going to happen,that these salons are supplied by reputable suppliers,ie the LFS we know and love,who can give them the appropriate advice,training and equipment they need? They can then get ongoing contracts to help maintain them in a favourable condition. The other option is that we all pack a sad with any LFS that supplies the salons,so they stop supplying them,the salons get the fish in from the UK,and they die in large numbers due to lack of care. Dosn't take a genius to see what the best option there is.

always on the lookout for interesting corys.pm me if you know off any!

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12 Oct 2011 10:07 - 12 Oct 2011 10:07 #11 by Valerie (Valerie)
Replied by Valerie (Valerie) on topic Re: Fish Pedicure shouldn't be legal

These fish seem to cost 5 EUR a pop if you were to buy them in the fish shop today. They might not be this price if you were to buy them bulk but it still would be an expensive mistake to kill them all regularly through neglect.
For the welfare of the fish, I hope the systems delivered along are filtered/heated and that there is some 'training' for their keeper along with the delivery, otherwise, it's a dead investment before it even has started (18EUR/30 min in one of these establishments Galway as per as quick search in Google).
I wonder if dead skin is a good and enough of a nutrient for them too.

Personally, it's more about hygiene that I'd be more concerned about ... you can't just throw some bleach in the tank to sterilise it. :blink:

So, IMO, if all the points above were being fulfilled and verified ... fine ... but from what I can gather, it doesn't seem they are. It brings back the whole debate of animal (and human in this case) welfare : the bowls, the monster fish ... There has been more 'progress' made for the protection of dogs, cats and horses but there is indeed a need to extend policies.

Valerie


oops ... forgot to add my conclusion to this ...

... as a consequence, I'll be voting with my feet !!! :lol: :lol:
Last edit: 12 Oct 2011 10:07 by Valerie (Valerie).

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12 Oct 2011 21:17 #12 by Jambomac (James McConville)
I just thought i brought up dodgy topics :woohoo:

First of all if the I.S.P.C.A got involved fish fry culling would be banned.

Fish shows would probably be banned down to stress of moving the fish around.

Breeding fish related to each-other for pretty varieties but a weaker species would be grotesquely opposed.

Many other fish would be banned for imports for the many abuse's with how they are caught.

So i think if many knowledgeable fishkeepers do questionable things to fish can you really question what the un-educated of fish do.

Be careful what you wish for :cool:

“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.”

quote Bruce Lee

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12 Oct 2011 22:46 #13 by Jim (Jim Lawlor)
Here's two reasons why they shouldnt be legal:

www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3469

www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3693

That's enough for me, even before fish welfare comes into it.

I did read somewhere that the death rate amongst the fish used for pedicures is rally high, but cant find it.

Plus, there was a recent story (discussed on this forum) about an English girl getting her hand amputated due to an infection she picked up from cleaning her home aquarium. You shouldnt put broken skin into a fishtank, much less go looking for fish to nibble on your corns and bunions.

Lastly - I passed the salon in St. Stephen's green the other day and there was a bloke peeling all the manky plasters off his feet before putting them (his feet!) into the water. I wouldn't want to be anywhere he's been!

Jim.

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12 Oct 2011 23:34 #14 by Acara (Dave Walters)
Jim,I'm not disagreeing with you,but the 2 links you've posted are very 'tabloidy',the 1st says 'could' not 'proven scientifically',the 2nd says it is 'to be investigated',so are many things,we have serious criminals arrested,and 'a file is sent to the dpp',but dosn't mean that person did wrong. They probably did,but this place is so hung up on what might offend amnesty international(+anks),that we can't be real anymore.
I agree with you,and especially on the bloke and his plasters,but have you ever used a public toilet,say in a pub,or a shop,or a shopping centre,or even your own toilet after a mate has used it,did you wash your hands,so did the last person,and their hands were 'dirty' when they turned the tap on,the same tap you turned off with your nice 'clean' hands.
Food for thought.

always on the lookout for interesting corys.pm me if you know off any!

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