Bad water quality

I beleave there is a problem with the tap water from the Ballymore Eustace supply.

I currently have 15 tanks of sick fish and 4 that are ok.
The tanks that get the larger water changes are the most effected.
The 4 that are not effected have not got a water change in the last 2 weeks.
There is no cross contamination between the tanks and the range of illnesses is across the board.
Over the counter and non over the counter medications have little or no effect.
I think the illnesses are only secondary to what ever is in the water.

I have plecos stuck to the glass above the water line.
Killi's lying on wood out of the water only going back into the water to rehydrate.
Nocturnal cats swimming at the surface during the day.
Fish constantly jumping from the water trying to escape.

I have polyfilter in all tanks and use it in-line with my water before water changes.
I have removed all phosphates (max0.5)from my tanks and reduced the Nitrate (max40ppm)as much as possible.
I have tried toxivec, carbon and puregen with no effect.
I have also increased the oxygen levels.

I am running out of ideas so if anyone has any ideas please let me know or if they want to see really sick fish or a grown man cry give me a shout.

I am having the water tested on Monday and i will post the results when i get them.

In the time it took me to write this i seen 1 butterfly barb, 1 L333 pleco and 1 killi die.

Darren 0861737853

Have to agree, I am having similar non-descript problems and similarly it is the tanks that are due a water change that are showing less issue. My situation so far is not as bad as yours, but I have lost about 10 fish in the last 10 days.

I agree the ailments appear to be secondary as they are varied and I am assuming that the fish are succumbing to illnesses because they are weakened by whatever is causing the problem. The only common factors between my tanks affected are water and that they all get brineshrimp, but I don't even allow the dropper touch water and any salt water ailment should not be trandferring to freshwater fish, so that just leaves the water itself.

I can't go the RO route as I have too much water to deal with I would need a monster unit and a storage tank to match, so hopefully we can identify the cause a rectify as soon as possible.

All suggestions welcome.

hi darren
i think i'm on the B.E. reservoir as well. i did some water changes recently and noticed adverse reactions from some fish(esp angel fry) no losses though. the fish seemed jumpy and nervous so i used polyfilters and things improved. At this time of year the water does be super charged with oxygen and who knows what the authorities add to the water. i can only reccommend to continue osing polyfilters and check kh and ph values and maybe ring the water board and they might advise you.
derek

I know Darren is using polyfillters and I am too, two breeder packs spread over all tanks, they are not showing any strange colour or discolouring any faster than normal, they may be working, but they are not solving the problem. Interesting to hear that you are affected too. Only points more and more to water issues.

I have been on to the water board and they will be out on monday to test my water.
i have been down this road before with the water board and i gave them a hard time. So much so they remembered me when i rang today and i still dont think they like me.
I will also be getting it tested independently.

The last male of my butterfly barbs just died.

Let me know how you get on.

I have a contact in the Central Lab in Dublin City Council, i'll get in touch with him on Monday.

Peter.

Cheers Peter

Are there any roadworks/waterworks going on in the surrounding areas.We all know any crap can get in to the water lines after these waterworks as we have all seen brown water after works on the water lines!!

For fish to be affected so adversely I imagine that there is a powerful toxin in the water.Would running your fresh water for water changes through activated carbon do anything?You could always put a small internal filled with AC into your water vats and run it for a few days!!!

There has been verry little water works on the south of Dublin in the last 2 weeks.
There is a lot on the north side at the moment.

I have tried carbon in some of the tanks and it has made little difference.
I also run my water through polyfilter before it comes out of the tap.

Keep the ideas coming.

For how long does the fresh water pass through the AC or PF?I always thought it would take a few days to removes nasties??

The water passes through an in-line filter.
The filter contains a stone (i forget the name) that blocks large particles and the polyfilter is just a precaution for any nasties.
It dosent have a long contact time, but at the end of each month the cartridge has quite a bit of sediment in it and the polyfilter is totally exhausted( dark brown).
So it has to be doing some good even if the water dosent get as much contact with the polyfilter as would be desired.
Flow rate is about 2 Gallons in 10 minutes.

There is water problems down here in cork too. i have lost 10 fish in 4 days without any sign of illness. one minute they are swimming around fine, and the next they are floating.Unfortunately for me its affected my betta barracks, but i have had no more deaths in the last 2 days. Usually bettas can live in the poorest water quality so it has to be something very nasty in the water.

Darren I have a 180 vision empty (well, one damaged blue dolphin moori in it)
Ph should be about 7.5-8.0 (I'll check it) if you have anything you want to temporarily rehome to 'safe' water then feel free. I'm in Rush btw.

@ rico10; Jamie most of the fish i lost had no signs of illness. They just keeled over.
i cant imagine the problem is related since the water is from 2 different areas. You been in Cork and me in Dublin.
Betta's can be hard to kill so i would keep an eye on the rest of your fish.

@Didihno. Thanks for the offer. Thats verry nice of you.
I would prefer to keep all the fish here so i can keep an eye on them.

I think i have a temporary solution.
One of the tanks most effected and with nearly all the deaths i added some Easy-life vloeibaar filtermedium.
This removes all types of metals and impurities.
Since i added it this morning the pleco's are no longer hanging on the glass out of the water.
The only problem using this is i cant add meds. since this will bind them and make them useless. I need to change water to remove this from the water.
I have now added some polyfilter to remove the Easy-life filter liquid.
I will keep you posted how this turns out.

Darren.

Can you not take water from the north side and bring some over for a few tanks would be happy to help..

Hi All
I SYMPATHISE WITH ALL THOSE HAVING WATER PROBLEMS.
What happens is the water table usualy gets contaminatef with the run of from fields, One of the main culprit is Farmers spraying there liquid fertilizer in bad weather. high nitrogen and other chemicals get into the water table and the water companies will pump a load of Sulphuric acid through to clean out the pipes. you end up with a leathal cocktail that will cause stomach upsets in humans and you can imagine what it does to the fish!!! Ther are also dangers of Ph crashes.
The water board will only tell you that it is perfectly safe. to cover there own backs.
Unless you have an unlimited RO supply and a few empty tanks you can fill with RO & pre membrane water there is no good in doing water changes, you will simply be adding to the load.

Please don't shoot the messanger.

Hope you all come through it, I know it can be devestating
All the Best
Russ

that could explain the death of my angel and the reason for the sudden ph drop. It also explains the reason why its effecting dublin and cork.
Makes sence to me anyway.

@ Phil; i have taught about getting some water from the north side but the lack of transport is one down side. The other is the ph tends to be higher on the north side meaning i would have to bring down the ph with the use of acids.
The only acid i have to hand is sulphuric acid which IMO dose not stay stable in the water for verry long and could leave me with a fluctuating ph. especially since most of my tanks have a KH of 2-4 which is dangerously low at the best of times.
I think this would be the nail in the coffin for most of the fish.
But a good suggestion, keep them coming.

@ Russell. I can see were you are coming from and that is a verry valid point.
At this time of year you would expect a change in ph weather it is from pipe flushing or just the rain and leaf litter making the water more acidic, but my ph has not changed.
I have one tank in particular that when i go to do a water change in it i check the tap water. This keeps me in a routine of checking the tap water.
It is quite possible that what ever is in the water was run off from fields.

I changed the polyfilter in my in-line filter last night and checked it today and it is an orangey red colour.
This indicated there is traces of metals in the water, possibly Aluminium.
I dont know of anything metal based that would be in fertilizers.
I think the iron(fe)in fertilizers is safe for fish. After all it is used in planted tanks and clay based fertilizers (laterite) contain iron (fe).
I intend using RO for the moment. See link;
www.irishfishkeepers.com/cms/component/o...w/id,25579/catid,24/

@ Cillian; It is possible this is related to the death of your Angel, but you couldent be 100% sure.
Are the rest of your fish skittish and uneasy in the tank?
I would add some polyfilter to your filter or put it in a flow in the tank just to be sure.
You will get polyfilter in most shops but be warned it is expensive.
I would test your kh. If the kh is 2dH or lower your ph could crash causing it to change rapidly resulting in possible dead fish and the bacteria in the filter could be wiped out again resulting in dead fish.
It would be wiser to invest in a kH test kit.
I dont think there is any connection in the water problems i am experiencing and the problem Ricko10 is having.
They may be similar but not directly connected.

Sorry for the long winded reply. I will keep you posted with any developments.
Keep the ideas coming, Darren.

Darren,
I am terribly sorry to hear the ordeal you are going through at the moment ! I posted on your discus preis minerals thread that you could use a little cup provided with cough syrups to measure your 15ml powder.
(You could move to Galway, we only have cryptosporidium ! ).
I sincerely hope you are going to get sorted out soon!
Valerie

Darragh mentioned today and I forgot to tell you earlier that the water levels at Ballymore Eustace had been falling recently and were very low. I wonder is it possible that we are getting the dregs, or would that make any difference.

I have decided that I am going to do water changes tomorrow in several tanks. A few are well overdue now and the fish are not looking 100% and I don't know at this stage whether that is as a result of previous water changes or the lack of them.

Another death to add to my list was my one eyed otto, that has been around for over a year. Was fine this morning, dead this evening. It was in a tank that I am 1000% sure there was no cross contamination with as it was in the tank of labyrinths that I have been treating on and of for a couple of months, nothing gets crossed with that tank ever.


PS. If you want water from the Northside, transport is not a problem, you should know that!

while i agree that the water is most lightly the problem i would not totally exclude other factors e.g bad batch of water conditioner been one possible source we can never totally rely on these been a constant standard accidents happen.

but if water is aerated for 24 hours it will remove the chlorine and some pipes and sponge charcoal will make a usable filter.

Has there been any major pip work carrie dout in the past week. I know people will
disagree and with me but I heard Dublin corporation do use chloramne after major water
works. Adding dechlorinator that does not remove chloramines will
cause an ammonia spike.
Have you tested for Ammonia.

I know that i will probably never figure out why it died but thats what annoying me the most.
i will get some polyfilter and try that. What is kh? and any idea how much a kh test kit is?

Hi
Whilst the accepted practice for flushing mains water supplies is Phosporic acid most major suppliers are using Sulphuric Acid.
This will play havock and is extreemly unstable. ie can & does react with Heavy metals. Personal oppinion is that some form of Toxicity has enterd the system. Alluminium is one that breaks down very easily and couds give rise to problems!!
When I say the farmers spray the fields ,I was refering to the liquid waste produced by cattle and stored in tanks on the farm and then sprayed dirrectly onto the grass for Silage.

@ Daragh Owens;
I wouldn’t rule out the fact we are getting the dregs from Ballymore Eustace but I don’t think this is why there were nasties in the water.
If it was from the dregs I would still be getting Traces of whatever in the water.
I will explain this at the bottom of the tread.

@Micky Wallace;
The water conditioner I use is Aqua plus made by Hagen. It is the same bottle I have been using for the last couple of months so I would see this as safe enough.
This also removes Chloramine which is added from time to time to the water. Confirmed by the water board.
Aerating the water for 24 hours will remove the chlorine but I don’t think it will remove the chloramine’s. With my luck there would be chloramine’s in the water if i just aerated it.

@ Anto;
The only water works been carried out near me started on Friday. After the disaster.
There is a lot of work been carried out on the north of the city at the moment.
Ring the water board and they will give you a list of areas were work is been carried out.
Water services Ph. 012220600
I only test the mains water for hardness and ph. This is normally ph. 6.8-7.2 gh 2 and kh 2-4. On occasion there is 0 kh but the ph remains the same.
I usually have to buffer my water slightly. Just to keep the kh up a little

@ Cillian;
Kh is the buffering capacity of your water. This is what keeps the ph stable and is probably why you had a ph swing recently.
I would suggest keeping it at 4 or above. Less than 4 and it needs close monitoring.
Here is a link with some info that might5 explain it better than me. If it dosent make sense post in the water chemistry section and it will be explained more clearly.
www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html

@ Russell;
There was no change in the ph of the mains water so I ruled out flushing with acids. I should have mentioned this earlier. The water board claim they never use any form of acid in the water. Do we believe them???????
“When I say the farmers spray the fields ,I was refering to the liquid waste produced by cattle and stored in tanks on the farm and then sprayed dirrectly onto the grass for Silage.”
Us City folk can be a bit slow on the uptake. I taught you meant spraying the fields with fertilizers like phosphates, nitrates iron etc.
Russell can you think of any metals that would turn polyfilter a yellow / orange?

I placed a piece of polyfilter in a small filter and added it to a bucket of tap water this morning. This evening it was still snow whit. Looks like what ever was in the water is gone. I did not test ph etc.
This is typical since the water will be tested tomorrow and i didn't keep any of the bad water.
Before hand the polyfilter had been going yellow, orange, light red. Anyone know what chemical or metal causes these colours?

Q. What is the best remedy for pleco's with internal bacterial problems. Some of these i dont think i can save and if i can i would say it will only be a temporary fix.

Anyone holding off doing water changes i would say it is safe to do some now.
I would only do small water changes. Max 10% and have some polyfilter in your tank just in case.

Why i was so badly hit was because i did some large water changes (50%). The tanks with smaller water changes have had no deaths. A lesson learnt.

Darren.

Very pleased to hear that things are getting back on track for you too. Hopefully you will be able to keep any fish that have been damaged by whatever the mystery extra was in the water.

As I said earlier I planned to start water changes today, as I reckoned whatever was in the water would either be gone or greatly reduced and if it wasn't my fish, especially in my stock tanks which are heavily loaded were starting to suffer. I did water changes on two tanks late last night and as things looked pretty good this morning I continued on and spent the afternoon doing water changes all around. I have about 5 tanks to go. As I am only diluting whatever was there in the first place, I plan to repeat the process for all tanks again over the next couple of days at least. I am just glad I don't have a water meter fitted!

Polyfilter turns red with Iron, according to their instructions in the breeder pack. I had extra polyfilter in every tank for the last week or so, but none turned red, just the the usual off-white, then brown.

My bristlenose breeding tank has always turned polyfilter red, blood red. I don't know why, but it has since I first installed it 12 months ago. I always assumed it was something to do with the media in the filter compartment, it has an unknown make of ceramic rings and I guessed they maybe be causing the problem, but it never affected any of the fish.

For reference, blue with copper. Green with ammonia

Been away for a week so couldn't give my two cents.
You are experiencing exactly what happened to me earlier this year. I did one water change and my entire discus tank went belly up.
For me it RO water all the way. Buffer with Preis Discus minerals. No more fatalities.

If your polyfilter shows signs of alumium I would almost bet that it has been washed out of the soil when the soil had fertilizer spread on it. The nitrate will make the soil acidic and once the soil pH drops below 4.2, aluminium will be washed out. aluminium is highly poisonous, even in small amounts and also the cause of the effects of acid rain.

Hi All

Like I said Proboably the run off the land.
Out here in the outback we have our own water supply Funded by an E.U grant and is monitored 24-7. Some weeks back I found one of the men that run the station running of thousands of gallons into the manholes. when I asked why he said due to the heavy rain and the spraying of silage that the water was polluted!!! it had enterd the water table and into the borehole.
That Sunday at Mass, the Priest informed the congregation that all drinking water must be Boiled. No mention in the Paper or on the news. so unless you attended Mass you became very ill. So much for our caring authorities.

With all the work going on around the Dublin Area, the water mains are proboably getting cracked, perhaps some are out dated and corroded.

Needless to say I never knowingly drink tap water. it's always filtered.
If it can make you sick immagine what it can do to your fish!!!!!

I am glad to report that whatever it was it seems to have passed. I did water changes in all tanks on Sunday and the fish are the better for it. Though I was not as unlucky as Darren, I think he must have down all his changes or bigger changes when the water was at it's worst.

Just a quick update.
The water board have been out to test the water.
I finally got them to answer the phone on Tuesday (18th dec)
They said \"the water they tested at my house was suitable for drinking.
So i asked for a copy of the results. \"they will be sent out late January-early February. If they dont arrive by then give them a ring\".
I was down this road before in 2005 and they still never sent the results.
I never got a chance to get it tested privately. Just to busy during the run up to Christmas.
I will try get a chance to update this over the Christmas.