Is it time to stop buying Puntius denisonii?

www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=2477

Kev.

These torpedo barbs are always first in my list if i ever manage to set up a community tank; they sure look great and enhance any tanks. I have yet to see any that reaches the mature size of 5-6 inches yet tho.

very informative, thanks. will make me think twice about buying any wild specimines from now on

I'm a bit lost on the present high-profile of this fish.
I'd prefer a ruby barb anyday.

But, I think that if a fish is threatened then aquarists may need to think about taking a responsibility on not demaning wild specimens.

ian

I have yet to see any that reaches the mature size of 5-6 inches yet tho.

One of mine is about 5" .

igmillichip wrote:

I think that if a fish is threatened then aquarists may need to think about taking a responsibility on not demaning wild specimens.

ian

I agree, this is long overdue, and this fish is by no means alone in its current circumstances, but lets face it, for all the good will spoken on forums regarding such things, most hobbyists talk a good game then go and dump all their fish anywhere, for a new set-up and new fish.

I have several "rescued" fish I don't even want but have not found decent homes for them, so they stay in my tanks.

The hobbyist is totally and completely responsible for the depletion of stocks of certain fish. they as I have said talk a good game but when it comes ot it they will snap up a rare wild caught fish and then brag and show it off, and then come on here saying how bad the whole situation is with the above article.

Prats, complete numpties, you know who you are.

Mark

Hi we import tank bred stock from Asia as wilds from India are bad travellers .. so we stopped Nearly all suppliers in Europe and Far easthave these fish on there lists so importers dont need to get from wild stock anymore!! Hope they can conserve this stunning species
Oh and yeh, we have had dennisonis at 5-6" in a display tank many years ago.. they were stunning, more like colourful balas..

Just read the above artical by PFK.. adults are paler in comparison??? No way.. ours were amazing!!!!

I recall those ones Serratus,they were real stunners alright.

practical fish keeping are gas really..(thats a pretty old article)they were doing an article on how great they were with heiko a couple weeks back,I would imagine that it would create a surge in sales (it allways does with us at anyrate so I would say the u.k is the same but more wide spread.) remember the rasbora glaxias furore? No one imports wild anymore,they were way too delicate/expensive.

i recall about a year ago being told these where extinct already in the wild must of been talking crap as he was trying to get me to buy them for 45 euro

I tend to give PFK a wide miss since it changed to a colour format, and even when it was B&W it was not in the class of Aquarist and Pondkeeper. Even TFH has gone downhill.
There are just too many photo-opportunity 'celebrity' experts for my liking.

Anyway, conservation is a very tricky business. There are the mad extremes to which it may be easy to gavitate towards; but my feeling is that conservation needs to be about having something in the middle using reason, realistic responsibility and concerted efforts........ummm, that's a problem as that needs very careful planning.

On the one hand, it is easy to 'pronounce' the need to stop collecting fish on conservation concerns; on the other it is easy to say 'we'll collect what we want when we want'.
It is the bit in the middle that is a bit tricky....trying to juggle between both hands.

In general, I feel that fishkeepers have taken a realistic responsible approach to conservation concerns.

Even though there are anecdotes of where fishkeeping has help saved an extinct species, I don't think that that is a vlaid case supporting irresponsible raping the wilds of its fish. But, concerted captive breeding programmes using the large framework of aquarists may be an option that the world may rely upon in its conservation efforts.

There are fish that I would buy as 'wild', but there are fish which I would not buy as 'wild'.

If my buying of wild non-endangered fish supports a local trade route for the peoples of countries afar (even though we know that the locals get very little money for each fish they catch), then that is something that I also bring into my equation of concerted conservation efforts.

The case of the danisoni....OK, so it is a rather nice fish. But every so often fish come along that seem to be the 'fish to have' (how many large catfish have been on that list over the past 30 years?). There is a seemingly mad voice heard on such fish.....and it is that notion of the "fish to have" (or be seen to having) that concerns me wrt conservation.
OR, to put it more blatanly I think that when it comes to any concern on conservation then snobbery must take a back seat.
A beautiful 3 euro emperor tetra is just as much a pride as an illegally caught or traded 300 euro musthaveodon beseenwithii extinctoides

igmillichip wrote:

musthaveodon beseenwithii extinctoides[/i]

yep...i googled that, and i feel like a right moron.

thanks Ian

dar wrote:

igmillichip wrote:

musthaveodon beseenwithii extinctoides[/i]

yep...i googled that, and i feel like a right moron.

thanks Ian

Oh you didn't:) Well done matey, takes me back to the plastic fish in the petshop post:)



Well said Ian, but people being people will go on as before. The export needs to be controlled and or banned, certainly for certain species, not going to happen in piss poor countries and local economies. For the hobbyist to act, how can we tell whats farm bred and whats wild, if wild caught became taboo then we'd be told the reverse, that they are all "farm bred".

Mark

Hi i agree with what Mark is saying to a certain extent, i can only speak for ourselves.. we have lots of suppliers in many parts of the world.. we do not deal with "middle men" so we know where our fish come from:)90% are farmed, but some species are very expensive to buy captive bred or wont even breed in captivity. Maybe a quota like stingrays from SA might be the answer for rare/hard to breed fish... just a thought:)

that sounds like the best thing to do, drew. i think something like that will benefit everyone as it will still be available although possibly at a higher price (and hopefully the fishers get a good bit of this) and will be able to rejuvinate numbers. having it under CITES will allow a much stricter control of its export/import which will benefit the fish but the price of importing under CITES will cost so much that this (once) lovely community fish could be obsolete in the trade

i think the biggest problem is that the locals only give a hoot about the money, which is why they rape the waters. its only because of this raping that the numbers are getting low, and low numbers mean higher price which has led it to become even more sought after and further raping of the wild stocks

the problem is going to be how to convince the indian government to impose very strict fishing controls on a fish that basically helps support their economy, when they are classed as a relatively poor country? wont happen unless it is taken to CITES level

The trouble is Joey, that the Fish collected in these poorer countries are collected as an alternative source of income/revenue to harvesting Tropical hardwoods which leads to deforestation. This is evident in the harvesting of Cardinal tetras, if the locals make sure local Rivers and Streams are kept pristine they know that the Fish will be healthy and reproduce. It suits them to keep the Forests in tact.

What is needed is for the Governments of such Countries to get involved and to manage a natural resource, we and millions like us thrashed billions of acres of Hardwood and coniferous Forests when settling new Lands, we weren't aware of the total anhialation of many species in our act we just wanted to live, eat and raise Families and I'm sure these locals feel the same, yes there are ring leaders of unscrupulous people who would use a tea strainer to remove every living organism from the Water if it made them money, that's why it needs to be licenced and independently monitored.

We don't have the right to dictate people to people in THEIR Countries what they should or shouldn't do, we can hope our concerned People can make representations via our governments and advise on how the species of interest should be managed to ensure their proliferation in the future.

A good example of supply meeting demand is perfectly shown with the recent interest here in L numbers, where do these come from? who is monitoring their removal from their ecological niche, what are the knock on effects on their biosphere? like Sharks being killed, something else is affected, either positively or negatively.
Most are NOT farmed but taken straight from their home, starved to reduce pollution in the Bag and so many die that they are priced highly to recoup the losses.

The final responsibility lies with the purchaser of the goods, if anyone feels aggrieved regarding the situation in the wild for anything, be it Tigers, Teak, Ebony, Orchids or whatever, don't by the goods, simple.

Kev.

point taken, i think my wording was a bit off it came out a bit wrong
thing is, we can make choices as individuals but there is a real danger to the wild stocks and unless there is some form of intervention, it could end in extinction of these creatures in the wild, much like i hear that is the fate bestowed upon (correct me if i'm wrong) the endlers guppy