diy sump

hello all
im thinking of converting a rio 96 into a sump/refuguim for under my rio 300 .
what im thinking is 4 compartments
1/ live rock
2/deepsand bed with calupra
3/ phosphate remover and heaters
4/ return pump
i have a couple of questions if any body could help i would much appreciate it.
q1 do i have to leave lights on section 3 24/7.
q2 should i swap section2 with section3 to keep light away from section 1
q3 ive read that i can harvest copepods in refuguim 'do i have to ntroduce a culture or what
should i put a bubble trap before refugiunm or after
q4 i have a hang on skimmer do i place this in section 1 or 3
i know this is a bit long winded but thanks again
john

Hi John. Your plan sounds fine but if i was to make any changes this is how i would set it up.
Firstly i think you would be better off selling the Rio 96 and making the sump from scratch. You can make one to suit your cabinet weather it be a long or a short sump.

1st. chamber; i would put a trickle tower. I have a few spare one's of these with media just give me a bell.

2nd. chamber; i would put the deep sand bed. The denitrifying bacteria dont like light so black out this chamber as much as possible.( If you do put the calupra in this section just use a deeper sand bed so the light doesn't penetrate to deep in to it).

3rd. chamber; i would leave for the heaters or any chemical filtration (carbon, phosban..).

4th. chamber i would put the return pump.

I would put the calupra refugium over the tank fed from the return of the sump. If you put it below the tank in the sump some of the critters (Copepods, amphipods..) will get chopped up by the return pump.
I would go with a reverse lighting period for the calupra. When the lights go off in the tank they come on in the refugium. This can reduce the normal pH swing that happens between lights on and off in the main tank due to photosynthesis.
I left out the skimmer because i dont know if it is submersible or not. Ideally the skimmer would be the first in line to remove any crap.

When you get the calupra it should have some critters on it to get the refugium going. I can also give you some to get you started.

howya darren
thanks for the reply
the reason im using the 96 is there is very little resale value in tanks at the minute and i just think it will be as cheap to convert it.
just wondering why you would use a trickle filter other than live rock,can the media not become a haven for nitrates or could i use both
as for the refuguim it is going to be a deep sand bed [linda wont allow it above the tank:lol:
regarding the return pump can i use a large power head would it do
talk to ye soon
john:

john gannon wrote:

just wondering why you would use a trickle filter other than live rock,can the media not become a haven for nitrates or could i use both

The idea of using the trickle tower is, it would be more efficient at converting the Ammonia - Nitrite - Nitrate. The section above the water (about 20%) would have plenty of oxygen for the bacteria rather than them taking it from the water.
The section below the water (about 80%) will convert Ammonia - Nitrite and some Nitrate.
The deep sand bed should help remove the rest of the Nitrate.
The calupra will reduce the Nitrate and Phosphate.
If i remember correctly you have a large tank with some largish fish. Large fish will have a big bio-load so IMO an efficient filter would be needed.
You could use live rock but it just works out more expensive.

The power head could be used for the return pump but it would be under a lot of pressure pumping the height to your tank. I dont think it would last long.
If i remember correctly you have a decent pond pump (Hayling). If this is suitable for salt water you could use that.

hi darren
trickle filter it is then,ill have to check whether the pond pump[bottle of blue wkd upside down in in a pint glass with other stuff:woohoo: ]will work with salt water as the packaging was soaked and thrown out.
could i also connect the nitrate reactor to the return pump back to chamber1 or 4
thanks
john

John i just think the trickle filter would be a good choice for a small sump on a big tank.
Just check the impeller shaft on the pump. If it is metal it wont work on salt or if there is any other metal parts that would be exposed to the water.

The return from the nitrate reactor would be fed back through the filter (top of trickle etc.). Sometimes if denitrate filters arent working properly they convert the Nitrate back to Nitrite so you just pass the water back through the filter just in case.

just wondering are trickle filters big and are they just gravity fed
and the how deep would the sand bed need to be and should there be a layer of crushed coral be placed on top
thanks again
john

You could make one any size you want. The trickle towers i have here are 6" square. You just cut them to what ever height you need.
Yes they are gravity fed. A hose or pipe comes from your weir or over flow box and goes to the top of the trickle tower.

I'm not 100% what depth the sand should be. If you are growing the calupra in this section the light will penetrate the sand to a certain depth. It would be unlikely you will get any denitrifying bacteria here so allow a little extra depth. I imagine 3-6" would do.
I haven't done this myself so maybe one of the other lads on here will have a better idea for sand depth.
You could put some crushed coral over the sand. It would be something to anchor the calupra to.

Platty, do you have any pics of your sump
I’m lost with all the trickle this and gravity that

LB

thanks darren i might call down some time this week if thats alright
john

No problem John. Just give me a bell beforehand.

Here you go LB. it's a bit of a bad picture but you will get the idea.

This sump is not underneath the tank it is over the top so the pipework feeding it is coming from underneath and pumped up.
On the right hand side it is gravity fed back to the tank. The water just drops down a pipe to the tank.
The mix match of media and the way this one is set up has been an ongoing experiment for the past couple of years with several designs along the way.
This will give you an idea of each section.
The tall part on the left is the trickle tower. Water from the tank enters here and flows through the media down into the submerged part of the tower.
From here the water flows from the first chamber in to the second chamber were an algae called calupra is growing under a light. This is used to remove Nitrate and phosphate just like plants do in fresh water.
At the bottom of this section i have a small bed of mud, John will have sand here. This is used for oxygen starved bacteria that consume Nitrate.
From there the water flows over in to a section for heaters or chemical filtration. I have heaters and polyfilter in this section.
The last section is were the return pump is where the water is pumped back up to the tank.

Hope that is a bit clearer LB.

Thanks for the pic platty, makes it a bit clearer

LB

hello darren
i checked my pump tonight to see how fast it was ,i pumped roughly the same height as it will be pumping and it pumped 7ltrs in 1 minute ,does these mean it will only pump 420 ltrs in an hour ,is this enough or to much because of refuguim
thanks
john

John i think 1300 LPH would be roughly recommended.
Mine flows through the sump at about 350-400 LPH and it works fine. Nitrate is more or less 0ppm all the time.
I would set it up at that and see how it goes. You may have to fiddle with how much media is above the water and how much is below untill you get the Nitrate right down. This is done over a couple of months.

right i built the sump and fitted it on saturday,while i was atit i pulled my system apart and rebuilt it [took out jewel box and cleaned everything].
i have a compartment inthe sump for a refuguim,its about 10x10x12 with a 5" live sand bed [4" live sand and 1" arrognite sand ] ,im just wondering what sort of light would be best for this ,could i buy a small florescent light from band Q and if so what wattage would it need to be
john

Yes John you can buy a light unit from b&q. See if you can get some of the small T-4's. You know the ones for under kitchen units. You only want the bulbs to be about 10" long.
Try one on it's own to see if this is enough light to get the calerpra to produce oxygen bubbles from photosynthesis.
If it's not then just add another bulb. I think one will be enough.