High nitrates

Hi there, fish in tank few days. Ammonia & nitrites zero but nitrates high 80-160 ppm. Did a 30 % water change yesterday. However nitrate still as high today. No nitrate in my tank water. Question is how often can I do water changes ? Seems to stress fish out as it stirs up all the muck. Have the test tube testing kits.

You need to be careful on drastically reducing high nitrates too fast.

The values you give of 160ppm are over double the maximum for even the toughest of fish.

A 50% change would only bring the levels to 80ppm (from 160), so to get it to the region of about 20ppm you'd need to do a 90% water change......not advisable.

What I would recommend is an emergency action of getting either JBL NitraEx or Polyfilter to gently reduce the nitrates over a period of a day........but don't drop it too much.

Then start on a series of daily partial changes for a few days.

If your fish can tolerate common cooking salt, then a little of that in the water can help protect against the effects of high nitrate (but don't solve the effects).

ian

Thanks Ian. For the daily changes what percent of water would you take out/change ? Will try get that product tomorrow. Thanks

What I forgot to say is to double check your readings....and wash out the test tubes thoroughly between tests.

What size tank is it?

You wouldn't need to go mad but 10 to 20% each day for a few days will help boost the water again.

If your nitrates are high, then other things that you don't test are also likely to be high.

ian

Water changes are the "ONLY" way to reduce your Nitrates!

Because your Nitrates are so high you need to reduce them gradually over a period of a number of days with daily small water changes just like Ian has recommended or else you will possibly shock and kill your fish....Fish need to be adjusted gradually to totally new Nitrate levels....

Eventually when you get them right down to acceptable levels (20 is good, 10 is better and if you can manage 5 your doing an excellent job) not only will your fish love you for it your tank will too as this will really help compete against our worst enemy the "dreaded algae"...... Excessive Nitrates are the number one cause of algae growth in fish tanks...

I would also if i were you try and get to the bottom of the cause of your High Nitrates..There are several possibilities (Overfeeding, Overstocking, not carrying out WEEKLY water changes and not cleaning the gravel properly once a week are the main reasons)

It is my opinion that fresh water aquariums should get a weekly water change of 50% along with a thorough weekly gravel cleaning (vaccing)....This maintenance regime has never failed me and because of it i never see any algae in my tanks....Now if you find that with weekly 50% water changes and thorough gravel cleaning your Nitrates are still climbing very high very quickly you are either overfeeding your fish or there are too many fish (or fish that are too big) in your tank....

Now you may think 50% weekly water changes are a bit too much but i can assure you 50% is the perfect ammount to change weekly as it is not too much to shock the fish and it is just the right ammount to keep Nitrates at bay and also to replace lost minerals fish use up over time...

Put it this way! Would you fancy being locked up in a box and having to live amongst your own pee and poop without it ever being thoroughly cleaned out...Probably not....

The motto is Fresh Water fish LOVE Fresh Water!

I also meant to say if you find pouring water into your tank is stirring up the gravel at the bottom and causing a mess try using use a plate to disperse the force of the water...

What i mean by this is hold a plate at the water surface and carefully pour the new fresh water onto the plate using a jug...This will disperse the water more gently over the surface and stop the bottom from being disturbed...Less mess and less stress on the tank inhabitants...Ya need a little more patience than ya would if you were just dumping buckets of water straight into the tank but its worth it to keep the tank clean and the fish less stressed...

It is not true that water changes are the only way to reduce nitrates........that's a myth.

Water changes are one of the ways to reduce nitrates but not the only way.

In a system that is mature enough (people often called it "fully cycled" for some reason) nitrates are removed by the system directly or by removing ammonia and nitrites before they get converted to nitrates.

Unfortunately, many tanks are probably no where near "fully cycled" in the first place....and, in which case, there will be a massive build up of ammoniacial waste products.

But that does not mean that one does not need to do water changes in a superbly mature tank: water changes are vital to "recharge" the RedOX system and to remove compounds that cannot be removed by normal biological filtration.

ian

I would do a good vacuum and 50% water change every day until you get your nitrate levels down to 20PPM.

Then count how many days it takes for the level to get up to 40 or 50PPM and then do another 50% change.

The number of days you get tells you how often you have to do a 50% change.

This is what has worked for me because I've got large and messy fish.

Alan.

Also when i'm doing a 50% change i make sure that the water is wihtin 2 degrees of the water in the tank and that is has also been conditioned

Thanks all. I couldn't get that product you mentioned Ian after trying two different shops. Will retest my readings today & if still high will do 20% water changes over next few days to try get readings down. Thanks for advice much appreciated

You must be well out in the sticks if you couldn't find either product.

Forgot to ask......what is the pH?

ian

Ha ha Wexford. Tried 2 shops in 2 different towns. The advice I have received in all the shops has been horrendous. Haven't tested ph but I will.

dee2011 wrote:

Ha ha Wexford. Tried 2 shops in 2 different towns. The advice I have received in all the shops has been horrendous. Haven't tested ph but I will.

Now....no naming the shops.........but go on.........let us know what they told you.

The reason I ask about the pH is that when your nitrates go that high there is a potential that your pH buffering has been sapped and you could get a pH crash from the high nitric acid.

ian

The ph seems to be high ie 8.6 or so. Nitrates still high even though doing 25 % water changes the last few days. Having said that 40 ppm & 80 ppm look v same on my colour chart for reading levels so hard to tell.

Well, one shop told me could put fish in tank after 3 days. I bought fish off them & one was dead before I got home.
Other shop was better but when I was buying tiger barbs didn't mention should be kept in groups of 6 at least. Also tried to convince me 45l tank was big enough to hold 2 cichlids . I haven't looked into it but I'm sceptical they would be a bit squished.

Any of the South American Dwarf Cichlids could easily live in a 45 litre tank in my opinion..But i wouldnt keep more than one specimen...

Rams and Apistos dont grow very big at all and are quite peaceful towards other tankmates "except" in certain conditions other cichlids...

Tank size is very important when it comes to cichlids..They need space to establish territories and generally the bigger the cichlid the bigger territory that is required...

In your case (45L) a single Ram or Apisto would live quite happily with small Tetras, Corries, small Barbs etc etc

You should test the PH of your tap water..To get a true tap water PH reading put some in a bowl and leave it sit overnight (24 hours approx) give it a little stir before you test the next day....

Your tank PH is a little on the high side..If you find the PH in your tank is much higher than the PH in your tap water there is something in the tank causing it to rise....(Possibly gravel,rocks etc etc)

Also test the NitrAte level of you tap water...Its possible you may have high NitrAtes in your tap water..Ya dont need to let tap water sit overnight to do NitrAte tests...

pH 8.6? are you trying for a Tanganyikan tank?

That is high.

The size of tank....it depends on what cichlids you are going for. It won't fit too many 18inch cichlids , but would easily fit quite a few smaller species.

ian

Nitrates in tap water only 5. Still sky high in tank. Just did another 25 % water change so will see tomor. The fish seem happy enough so that's a positive Altho all these water changes seem to be stressing the platys.

Just out of curiosity, what filter are you running and what way do you clean it out?
I had a few nitrate issues a while back and it turned out my filtration was partially to blame!
Not enough flow plus poor overall filtration thru the sponges!

Its a bit of a difficult thing to pin point most of the time

That's the other thing it's a biorb tank. One of the portrait tanks but they have them filters on the base of tank. Maybe it's not as efficient. Cleaned it out tonight in the discarded tank water. Have a new filter could change into tank but newish set up so am afraid new filter won't have proper bacteria. Oh it's all confusing

Seein so youve been carrying out 25% water changes for a number of days now im sure a 50% change at this stage will not harm the fish in any way..They have been gradually adjusting over these last few days and are probably ready to take a 50% water change without any problems....

Your current levels are either 80 or 40 (as you stated) so a 50% water change will halve this to either 40 or 20....This is definite progress because you started at 160 if my memory serves me right...

At your next water change do 50%...Then test your water for NitrAtes about an hour or so after the water change....Do another 50% water change the following day....

These 2 water changes will reduce your current level of 80 to 40 and then 40 to 20 over the next 2 days....

Basically a 50% water change usually halves the NitrAte level in an aquarium each time....

By the way how many Litres is this tank and how many and what kind of fish are in it?

Also what kind of feeding regime are you using (How much and how often)

45 litre tank. 3 small tiger barbs and 4 platys.

That is not overly stocked.

I'd be interested to see exactly how the nitrate has come to be so high.

If your normal aerobic filters are blocked then that will not, in itself alone, increase nitrates as they are the primary source (but not the only) of nitrate production in the tank.

The level of nitrates will be a cumulative build up rather an acute conversion of ammonia or nitrite directly to nitrates (if you had 160 mg/l of nitrite being converted in one go to nitrate then your fish would have been dead long ago).

Although your fish may be fine, there is a potential of lasting damage.

Check on whether the gills are curled out and whether or not the inside of the gills look a healthy pink or a dark brown (you can easily see that by having a magnifying glass when the fish get near the front).

I would say that if the gills are not dark brown inside, then you have probably not had a nitrate level that high.

Nitrate test kits are prone to problems in usage. They don't actually test for nitrates at all, and the method by which they work can lead to errors if the reagents are not added correctly.

I noticed that you originally said you had a range of 80 to 160.
That is quite interesting in itself as nitrate does not react in the same way as, say, ammonia would act in temperature or pH differences.

Now, going back to the pH.....at pH 8.6 there is a great risk of increasing the percentage of free (un-ionised) ammonia.

However, at a pH of 8.6 there is less chance of your biological filtration system crashing due to an acid crash.

ian

To be sure you are getting proper test results you must shake the hell out of the Reagent bottles for at least 2 mins prior to testing..The chemicals in the reagent bottles need a really good mix up before use...(Especially the number 2 NitrAte bottle) (This is assuming you are using an API Master Test Kit)

I shake the hell out of all my reagent bottles before any test (PH,NitrAte,Ammonia,NitrIte etc etc)

If its possible take some of your tank water somewhere it can be tested for a second opinion...(Just in case your test kit is dodgy)

Can you also tell us what you are feeding your fish, how much you are feeding them and how often you are feeding them....Overfeeding could also be the source of your problem...

gunnered1972 wrote:

To be sure you are getting proper test results you must shake the hell out of the Reagent bottles for at least 2 mins prior to testing..The chemicals in the reagent bottles need a really good mix up before use...(Especially the number 2 NitrAte bottle) (This is assuming you are using an API Master Test Kit)

I shake the hell out of all my reagent bottles before any test (PH,NitrAte,Ammonia,NitrIte etc etc)

If its possible take some of your tank water somewhere it can be tested for a second opinion...(Just in case your test kit is dodgy)

Can you also tell us what you are feeding your fish, how much you are feeding them and how often you are feeding them....Overfeeding could also be the source of your problem...

Exactly.

With the stock levels being quite low, feeding is a good thing to look at and then join that to frequency of past water changes.

With the test kits, most of the ones on the shelf are much of muchness in generally being the same test......ie 2 reagents, and the final result being a variation in pinkness/redness of the test result.
The first reagent being one that is likely to be a sulfanilic acid plus zinc mix....and that is one that if over-done will give big false results.

If the test is not washed out properly, then you are highly likely to get residue of the first reagent left in the tube to cause an overdose on the next test.

Then, as the test ki used is most likely to be one of the ones I'm thinking of, the final colour is more of dispersion of an insoluble red compound in suspension......not washing that out may add to the next test result.

Even if it is not an API test kit, it is still likely to be the same test kit as nearly all others makes....and all are prone to the same problem of measuring nitrates.

ian

Did a 50% water change today & tested nitrates 1 hour later & FINALLY they are down to about 20. Delighted as felt so bad for the poor fish being harassed with daily water changes. Thanks for all the advice. I have been feeding small amounts once daily of tropical flakes. How often should I test all water parameters now ?

Assuming you are happy with 20 ppm (I personally would do another 50% water change and get it down to 10) test daily for NitrAtes for seven days until you are ready for your next weekly 50% water change..testing daily for seven days will show you how much of an increase you are getting until the next water change is due...

Welcome to the world of 50% weeekly water changes...I swear by it..Not only does it keep your fish happy and healthy you will notice a considerable decrease in the levels of algae growth in your tank..

2 Mottos to remember when keeping fresh water tropical fish!

1 We are keepers of water not fish (Look after your water and the fish will look after themselves)
2 Fresh Water fish love fresh water

BTW dont change your feeding regime for a while yet...It is actually better to keep your fish hungry and alert..It probably sounds counter productive but its for their own good..Fish will just keep on eating every time you feed them and this will just lead to more waste and ultimately more NitrAtes..feeding smaller ammounts once a day is fine...I personally feed my fish once per day on Sat,Sun,Tues,Thurs, with a pretty decent ammount..It works well for me....(It is also a good idea to vary their diet) Remember your NitrAtes will be a good indicator of possible overfeeding...

As a side note, it is still interesting to read that some internet sites and published work still have you believe that "nitrites are converted to the harmless nitrates".

Since when have nitrates been harmless must have been before life started on this planet....so even after 3.5 billion years, some writers in aquatic magazines and websites (which often get a "useful link" put to them) still insist on uttering the danger to life based upon pre-3.5 billion years ago information. !!

Nitrates are not harmless to fish.
So if you see a website or article saying they are harmless then stop reading that article and find one that knows what it is on about.

ian

igmillichip wrote:

As a side note, it is still interesting to read that some internet sites and published work still have you believe that "nitrites are converted to the harmless nitrates".

Since when have nitrates been harmless must have been before life started on this planet....so even after 3.5 billion years, some writers in aquatic magazines and websites (which often get a "useful link" put to them) still insist on uttering the danger to life based upon pre-3.5 billion years ago information. !!

Nitrates are not harmless to fish.
So if you see a website or article saying they are harmless then stop reading that article and find one that knows what it is on about.

ian

Easy to be led a stray by what you read sometimes... I try to always double or triple cross check what i learn

I found that an easy way to help with nitrates is to have duckweed or other types of fast growing floating plants. while they grow they'll act as a phosphate and nitrate sink. may be something to look at

Xavier