We have lift off ! SFF breeding

Our male and female betta splendens are copulating. First time breeders, just lucky I guess, I hope this results in some fry.

So here's the history, one pleasant Sunday up in Aquatic Village there was an offer on a Sub-Tropical setup bowl, into which we put in 2 WCMM and a beautiful male Siamese Fighting Fish and a small filter (low flow), something my daughter was very pleased about. After nursing him for a few weeks and ensuring temps didn't fluctuate we noticed some bubbles forming on the surface, then last Wednesday 1st Oct we noticed a film appearing on top of the water, which once netted out/cleaned it appeared again a few hours later.

So on Sunday the guys in AV said he was ready for courting and we chose a female who was also quite ready for the dating game.
We got our old plastic goldfish tank out of the shed, cleaned it out with some water I had ready for a water change on my Rekord 70, placed the female in the upturned lid of the test kit and put her in the glass bowl, I guess it was a sort of beauty pageant scenario, he puffed himself up and she sashayed and swayed around. Their reactions were astounding! In the interim we got the plastic tank setup with the filter and the water heated to 25, put both fish in with a cabomba plant and gradually raised the temperature. Needless to say we spent Sunday evening on YouTube looking at SFF spawning videos. Then last night, only 24 hours later, he started buidling his bubble nest, and now the are in a romantic embrace under the bubble nest and the eggs are dropping. I'll update this tonight with progrees and if my new dad hands aren't too shaky maybe a photo or 2.

ALL ADVICES VERY WELCOME.

Congratulations !!

First thing you should do now is to think what are you gonna feed the very small fry in a few days. Try some liquifry but I think some eggyolk will much better do the job. After they finish spawning don't forget to take the female out or she might get killed. Let the male with the fry till they are freeswimers. Getting them spawn is the easy job raising the fry it's a bit more of a challenge:). Good luck and if you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask.

Hi Andrew, congrats!!! WOW i know i said they would prob. breed in a week or so but 2 days!!!
There are a few breeders of SFF on the forum, one who i know defo. has is Ioan, i have seen his fish n they are nice!!! Think Darren (platy252), JohnH and Daragh plus im sure others may have bred them to.....
One thing is they are sensitive to drafts a few weeks in after they reach the water surface as the labryinth organ begins to develop you need to keep the air warm and humid (i have bred them in a fish house before, easy as the air was already warm and humid, got about 20-30 fish up to saleable size) there are a number of ways to do this, but ill let one of the more experienced SFF breeders tell you as i only got a small no. of fish to adults!!!!

Well done on the breeding.That was fast.Thought it would have taken longer than that.Do you have any pics of the bubble nest.

Nice one.Stretching cling film over the top of the tank helps to keep the air humid and warm,as Drew says they are VERY susceptible to drafts.

Hi Xeon, can you please explain the egg yolk feeding. Is it fresh or cooked, the freeze-dried stuff and what quantities. Thanks for all your good wishes, I'll get some photos and maybe a little video later on.

Hi Serratus & Acara, thanks for the advices, I'll be in touch, in the meantime here is a link to my photos on Google.

picasaweb.google.com/AndrewTaaffe/FishFun?authkey=hekpwY3NSrw#

BTW Drew, one of the frogs I got croaked it last night (sorry for the pun) the other 2 are in great form and are very curious swimmers
Andrew

Nice videos !

Precocious fry ... the eggs have just been laid and there are already baby babbles on the sound track !!

Thanks. Valerie

the baby babbles are the children my wife minds as well as our own, she was trying to hold off our 3 yr old while the fish did the \"dance of the seven veils\"

well the eggs are hatching and the fry are emerging, BBS ready to feed them.

That is brilliant news ... Get the camera working !

Good luck.
Valerie

a little tricky, i have the tank wrapped in clingfilm to keep the heat in and maintain the air temp as close to the water temp as possible, but here is a shot of his paternal instinct and returning the fry to their bubble nest

oops forgot the url, was a little trigger happy on the old mouse

picasaweb.google.com/AndrewTaaffe/FishFun?authkey=hekpwY3NSrw#

HELP on next steps.

The fry are a week old, they are swimming around, well slow-gliding is really what it looks like, around the cabomba.

Filter is turned off - to stop the wee fellas being sucked in or pushed around the tank, it's been off for 9 days now and we've topped up the levels from evaporation.

Water temp is a constant 27.

Tank is covered in cling film to keep air temp surface water in line with below and draughts out.

Sitting under kithcen counter lights - beside a 70 ltr trop community, and the plant looks healthy.

Solid regular diet of artemia.

So the questions are:

Is the above setup ok?

Can I change some of the water?

What are my next steps?

Is there something I should be looking out for?

At what stage can I move them into another tank?

How do I know if deformities exist and when could these be spotted, I guess > 4 weeks old.

Andrew

hey andrew im a big fan of betta's and every thing your doing is fine my only answer i can give you is wait 6 weeks befor you will be able to do much with them, all you can do is a 5% water change every now and again for them and try get some blood worm and you can trun your fillter back on and put your net over the intake part if there is anything else you need to know just send me a pm
best of luck
regards
karlo

Did you leave the filter in the tank?If so,the bacteria would die off and pollute the tank.It should be removed,or if a built in,then all media removed.I guess,however,after 9 days you should have experienced any spikes.

Dave

Hi Acara

I removed the whole filter from the betta tank and then put it in my main tank to keep the bacteria going, so now it's back in the betta tank and all looks well. Ammonia was zero yet nitrite had risen, probably due to uneaten food. Now the guys are popping around and generally enjoying themselves - I hope but i did find a tiny snail on a leaf so this was hastily removed.
Thanks for your advice Dave

Nice one.

Hi Andrew...welcome to the betta craze...I have been breeding bettas for the last 6 to 8 years and lately i trying to develop my own strain. from the setup you wrote, I would say it is more than enough. In the meantime when breeding bettas, keep in mind that you can use large tanks so that you can always increase the level of the water and live comfortable as their grow out tank instead of moving them around.

Secondly, filters should be added from week 6 to 8 when they are large enough to withstand some movement especially when they are developing the labyrinth organ. It is important that the bubbles help in removing the top scum from the surface to ensure proper oxygenation.

Some indian almond leaves extract or the leave itself would help to keep PH low and help the fish in their growth.

As for first food I go for microworms for a few days and then go for BBS. Though I found that starting off with BBS does not in any way effect the growth of the fry. I would avoid commercially prepared fry food for the first few weeks and even egg yolk or liquifry. They tend to pollute the water rather than help in feeding.

Add some small snails in the tank to clean up any uneaten food. There is also a relationship between fin burn and microworms which tend to deposit at the bottom and cause the pectoral fins to cause them to 'burn' due to bacterial infections. By now male should have been removed.

The most important issue is jarring which is the biggest headache for any betta breeder...funnily enough, males tend to show aggression after they are jarred rather than when they are with their siblings...

Ok, now the fry are 3 weeks old and happily making their way around the tank. One or two are not the shyest of creatures. The numbers have dropped but at least I hope we get a good size crop from our first breeding outing ! With Christmas coming these little beauties could be great gifts and maybe get some family members could join the shoal:woohoo:
So what are next steps?
Can I feed them bloodwork if I mush it into a fine food by pushing through - say a tea strainer - ?
Can I turn the heater temp down from current 28 ? When can i do this and of course over how long should I gradually reduce the temp?

When is the best time/most appropriate time to "jar" them? Which jars are best and should they be prepared in a certain way (I'm thinking of boiling some jam or honey jars and then soaking them in water from my main tank).

Here'd the latest video

picasaweb.google.com/AndrewTaaffe/FishFu...#5261989289276896274

Andrew

Can I feed them bloodwork if I mush it into a fine food by pushing through - say a tea strainer - ?

My reply would be to feed them newly hatched brine shrimp for at least some weeks until they can be fed powdered food.

Can I turn the heater temp down from current 28 ? When can i do this and of course over how long should I gradually reduce the temp?

Keep this temperature for the time being as a difference might kill the fry. Cover the top of the tank so as to maintain same temperature between the air and the water. This is because in a few weeks time they start developing their labyrinth organ needed to breathe from the surface. The difference in temperature might cause various problems.

When is the best time/most appropriate time to "jar" them? Which jars are best and should they be prepared in a certain way (I'm thinking of boiling some jam or honey jars and then soaking them in water from my main tank).

Jarring occurs at 8 to 10 weeks when male characteristics start to show up such as flaring, biting, fin-nippping.

How are your fry getting on.Any changes in the tank or any color in the fish yet.If you could put up a video or some pics it would be great.I think we all would love a look.

sorry, haven't forgotten about this, the fry are doing well. The numbers have come down and a few are a decent size, some are a lot smaller.
Here is a snap i got today.


Andrew

sorry photo didn't load, here it is now

hmmm file size too big, so here is the link for the web photo
picasaweb.google.com/AndrewTaaffe/FishFun?authkey=hekpwY3NSrw#

They seem to be looking good.
Well done.

congrats Andrew, the fish are looking great and coming on nicely

a little video always helps...
picasaweb.google.com/AndrewTaaffe/FishFu...#5270167057119909362