Water Problem ?

Hello Everyone.
First a bit of history about our tank.

Capacity 300Lts.
We have the tank about 6 weeks.
Our fish.
2 Catfish.
2 Swardtail,female.
3 Glowlights.
2 Thick lipped Gourami.
1 Fighter,female.

So far we have lost 2 fish.
Fighter female as a result of disease.
Catfish cause of death unknown.

We cycled the tank correctly & had readings of
PH 7.
Ammonia 0.
Nitrate 0.
Nitrite 0.
The fish have been added over a perion of 3 or 4 weeks.

On the Sunday 8th Feb we added 2 female fighters.
2 days later on Tuesday 10th Feb they showed signs of White Spot.
On Thursday 12th Feb we treated the entire tank with Blagdon (formerly Interpet)White Spot treatment.This is a 2 stage treatment. Treat the tank & 4 days later give a 2nd dose.
The White Spot was removed but 1 of the fighters did not look very well with damaged fins etc.We moved her to a quarintine tank & treated her with Melafix. She died yesterday.


On Tuesday 17th Feb we did a 20% water change,took tests & got results.
Ph 6.8.
Ammonia 1.5.
Nitrite 0.
Nitrate 0.

On Saturday 21st Feb we did tests & found the following results.
Ph 7.
Ammonia 2.
Nitrite 0.
Nitrate 0.
We did a 20% water change & washed out the filters in Tank water.

On Sunday 22nd Feb we added Ammo Lock to the tank & took readings.Results.
Ph 7.
Ammonia 2.
Nitrite 0.
Nitrate 5.

On Tuesday 24th Feb we did tests with results.
Ph 6.6.
Ammonia 2.
Nitrite 0.
Nitrate 2.5.
We added the 2nd dose of Ammo Lock.

On Wednesday 25th Feb we did tests & got results.
Ph 6.
Ammonia 2.
Nitrite 0.
Nitrate 0.
I contacted the LFS(our supplier)who told me to do a 25% water change & wash out the filters in Tank water + Re dose the Tank with Ammo Lock. We did all this.

Today Thursday 26th test results.
PH 6.
Ammonia 2.
Nitrite 0.
Nitrate 0.

We have made mistakes. First off we underestimated the capacity of the tank 250lt when it should have been 300lts.This was corrected by Tuesday 24nd Feb. Secondly we over fed the fish every day instead of every second day.This was also corrected by Sunday 22nd Feb.
None of our problems seem to start until we dosed the tank for the White Spot Also we have been told that with some meds & Ammonia blockers that you can get false test readings.
All the fish are fine & show no signs of distress in any way. The water is very clear.
Im sorry that this post is so long but as I wanted help I thought it only right to provide you with all the information I can muster.To the best of my knowledge the info provided is correct.
Anyone out there with any ideas?

Regards.
Tony.

Tony the Ammonia is a concern. Can I ask what filter you have and what its turning over.Ammonia can come from rotting food or / and dead fish also so water changes are vital,when you do the water changes have you gotten into the gravel / sand with a syphon?
Im just trying to piece together what could be the matter, I think you have stocked it too heavily early on also while it was still trying to come to terms with the cycle. What filter have you?

Gavin

Ammonia is too high, should be 0 but try and get it under 1.0ppm by doing daily waterchanges
is it possible the meds have killed of the nitrAtes

Hi Tony,

your post is not long in fact it is very useful. your ammonia is high but acceptable for a short period ideally it should be zero but it must not rise above this.

i note your pH readings are varying which i would be concerned about they should be be stable .1 is major change and you may be experiencing pH shock or you soon will.

i would suggest you fill a jug and allow to stand for a few hours then test this will give you a true reading i would suggest you do small water changes but prepare the water 24hours in advance of adding to the tank. change enough only the adjust your pH slightly 5 or 10 liters more only if your ammonia or nitrite rise above .2

ammonia lock a useful tool but it deprives your good bacteria of food thus should only be used sparingly or emergency.

REMEMBER you are aiming for readings of zero ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and a contestant pH

Mickey

Hi Gavin.
The filter I have is
Aqua One CF-1200.
I don't understand what you mean by "turning over"
I gave the gravel a good going over when I did the 25%water change yesterday. I use a siphon.
There should be no rotting food or much else left in the gravel & there are certainly no dead fish.It could be the Meds I used for the White Spot.All the fish look perfectly happy & show no signs of any kind of distress.
I refer you the following site.
www.algone.com/high_ammonia.php

Tony.

Hi Mrs Fishpatrick.
I have heard about the meds as well.

Tony.

The flow rate of that filter is 1,200 litres per hour. Its ok for your tank,Id consider upgrading it into the future to something more powerful.
Mickey has raised a very good point in relation to the PH, it varying alot, I would test you tap water also please and could you post results. Sometimes the water that is added to tank can change the tank results, particularly if the local water works have added some chemicals which can effect the readings.
The post is also not too long,its exactly what we need to get an idea of how to solve this. Key is to keep up the water changes but I wouldnt keep doing 20% at this rate until I know what the tap readings. Id be in agreeance again with Mickey on leaving the water stand for 24 hours, boil it if you wish also perhaps.Also was the meds you used in date and also do you add a conditioner to the water you add to the tank (is it also in date?).
Gavin

Hi Mickey.

What is Ph shock ?
I will do with the jug as you suggest. Why would letting it stand make a difference ?
Why does preparing the water about 24hrs in advance make a difference ?

Tony.

Fishowner wrote:

The flow rate of that filter is 1,200 litres per hour. Its ok for your tank,Id consider upgrading it into the future to something more powerful.
Mickey has raised a very good point in relation to the PH, it varying alot, I would test you tap water also please and could you post results. Sometimes the water that is added to tank can change the tank results, particularly if the local water works have added some chemicals which can effect the readings.
The post is also not too long,its exactly what we need to get an idea of how to solve this. Key is to keep up the water changes but I wouldnt keep doing 20% at this rate until I know what the tap readings. Id be in agreeance again with Mickey on leaving the water stand for 24 hours, boil it if you wish also perhaps.Also was the meds you used in date and also do you add a conditioner to the water you add to the tank (is it also in date?).
Gavin

Hi Gavin.

The White Spot treatmen expires on Feb 2011.
We use Tetra AquaSafe to treat the water before adding it to the tank.Would adding something like API Stress Zyme to the tank help in any way.I asked where we get our fish & he said " not at this time."
I know I keep going back to when I treated for the White Spot. Test reading before that were perfect.
I will do a test on the tap water as it comes from the tap.

Tony.

turn over is how many times your water passes through your filter thus why you have so many different filter sizes

i am going to google that filter out of interest.

do i have to say the size of filter depends on two things size of the tank and the fish you are keeping.


ammonia while toxic and i agree yours is not high enough for short period and is feeding your growing bacteria. it is present in all tanks at all times but is below a level that can be measured feeding your bacteria.

again i refare to your pH which i would have more concerns about pH shock is one of the biggest killers of fish

but as you have pointed out your fish are showing no signs of stress and your first post was excellent and informative it is clear to me you are taking all neccessary steps and hopefully we can help you avoid problems while learning from your example

Mickey

Mickey,
I had a look at the filter also,its probably fine for the time being but I would think a bigger filter would be necessary for a tank this size in time. Its turning 1,200 litres per hour.

Also I would say well done Tony on the effort you are putting in solving this problem,your showing great example to any new fishkeepers on here.

Gavin

Hi Mickey.

The filter is the one which came with the tank as a set.
Why leave water stand for 24hrs before adding it to the tank ?

Tony.

hi Tony,
sorry i type so slow!!!!!!

pH is part of the water chemistry and can be effected by many things eg strata, rocks, bogwood or Co2. the biggest reason one floots fish before adding to your thank is to ensure that pH are equal. chemicals and treatment effect them before they reach our taps and by letting them stand they will change. adding bogwood or Co2 will lower ph while limestone and coral sand will rise it.


when fish are suddenly but into lower or higher PH it will cause a major shock to the system. you could conpare it to a person being droped in to ice cold water our bodys go into shock.

now the difference between 6 and 7 is not much you would thing. but an exampleif 6 is 1 spoon of sugar then 7 is ten spoons of sugar. these are not correct figures just an example thus way pH should always be the same or changed very slowly

hopefully some will explain that better.

Mickey

Hi Everyone.

TEST RESULTS.

Tap Water.
Ph 6.6.
Ammonia 0.
Nitrite 0.
Nitrate 0.

Tank Water.
Ph 6.
Ammonia 2.
Nitrite 0.
Nitrate 0.

I have prepared 30lts of water treated with Aquasafe for use tomorrow if needed.

Tony.

for those who can it is always better to prepare water in advance. this allows the dechlorinator to work plus water chemistry stabilise. it also allows water temp to reach room temp which is good for you in that the heater has less work to do or boiling kettles which saves on the gas or esb bill:laugh:

airation will also remove more of the chlorine/ chloramine but water should always be treated.

hopefully you should see your pH stay at the one reading now which will be a big plus. the others will change but you will very soon reach the ideal zero reading. and with care and the attention you are giving you should have little problems but do not be afraid to post questions every question asked is a good question it lets us help each other while reinforcing our good points and practice while highlighting what we some times forget

Mickey

Did a water test yesterday Friday before lunchime & results were as follows.
Ph 6.
Ammonia 2.
Nitrite 0.
Nitrate 0.
I did a 10% water change.

Went to my LFS yesterday & they gave me AMQUEL instead of Ammo Lock. They said that they had been trying to get this product for some time & that it was better than Ammo Lock.
Came home & dosed the tank.

Today Saturday did a water test a little while age & the results are as follows.

Ph 6.
Ammonia 1.5.
Nitrite 0.
Nitrate 0.

So perhaps I am going in the right direction.

Tony looks lke its improving but still too high,keep up the good work and it will come down further,it wont jump down overnight either so be patient and you will see progress every few days.

Gavin

hi Tony
they are looking good and i see the pH is staying at 6! if it stay stable you should be fine.

the ammonia is high but as long as the fish are happy no sign of stress it will be ok but you are aiming to get it to zero

you should start to see your nitrite rise shortly again keep below 2and again aim for zero

this will rise and fall at which point you will see nitrate rise this we control by water changes again zero is your target.

for the moment small regular water changes are key to your success

and as your tank matures they will become less frequent

Mickey

Fishowner wrote:

Tony looks lke its improving but still too high,keep up the good work and it will come down further,it wont jump down overnight either so be patient and you will see progress every few days.

Gavin

Hi Gavin.
Thanks for the support & advice.

mickeywallace wrote:

hi Tony
they are looking good and i see the pH is staying at 6! if it stay stable you should be fine.

the ammonia is high but as long as the fish are happy no sign of stress it will be ok but you are aiming to get it to zero

you should start to see your nitrite rise shortly again keep below 2and again aim for zero

this will rise and fall at which point you will see nitrate rise this we control by water changes again zero is your target.

for the moment small regular water changes are key to your success

and as your tank matures they will become less frequent

Mickey

Hi Mickey.

Thank you for your support & advice.
Wlll the water changes keep the Nitrite down as well as the Nitrate ?
Should I do anything to raise the PH as it's as low as you can get ?

Tony.

Hi Tony,
you just follow the same system through out the cycle of small water changes keeping every thing as low as possiable but prefared would be zero. nitrate we remove almost always with water changes.


as for your pH well depends on the fish you wish to keep. but check with your LFS for local breed fish as these will most easily fill your needs if you chose fish which don't there are many simple ways to adjust it up

but that we can discuss at a later date. keep thing simple and not to much can go wrong.

Mickey

Sundays test results.
Ph 6.
Ammonia 1.
Nitritr 0.
Nitrate 0.

Did a 10% water change & added Amquel+ to the tank. That should eliminate any remaining Ammonia.I plan to do no further water changes for the next 2 days & just test to see what happens.

My partner has read a very interesting article on Ammonia. It stated that if the Ph of the tank water was low then a certain ammount of ammonia was no harm. Here is the link for anyone who is interested.

ezinearticles.com/?The-Truth-About-Ammon...-Aquarist&id=1892782

Tony.

Results have been steady now since Sunday.

Ph 6.
Ammonia 1.
Nitrite 0.
Nitrate 0.

Did a small 5lt water change & dosed with Amquel+ to try & get the Ammonia down further.
Fish seem happy.

Tony.

Hi Tony
looking good do i have to say i would have liked to some movement in the nitrite today being the third week. allow a little change in the ammonia upwards so skip a water change today but first what is your water temp sorry something just came to me probably nothing do.

Hi Mickey.

Water temp is 26'. The reason the Nitrite hasn’t gone up may be because of the water changes I have been doing trying to get the Ammonia down. It may also have something to do with the Amquel+.I have just noticed on the label that it also removes Nitrate & Nitrite so that may be the reason. Now today I have done a 5lt water change & put Amques+ in the tank but I will do as you suggest & skip water changes for the nest 2 days & see what happens.We made mistakes at the start with feeding etc so it may take longer for the tank water to change.
What also puzzles me is that the Ph is still at 6 but that is not a problem at the moment.


On a different question. What would put Ph up ? In our quarintine tank with no fish the Ph is 7.2 steady.Ammonia,Nitrate & Nitrite are all at 0.The tank is 31lt with an internal filter & heater & has been running for about a week now,

Tony.

Hi Tony,
well that explains a lot for me and handy to know!

as for your pH which i have to say is strange. thus a few questions

your quarantine tank what is in it?

coral sand? rocks?

in your main tank are you using Co2 or is there bog wood or peat?

Mickey

Hi Mickey.
My quarintine tank has nothing in it & I mean nothing. Its completely bare. I had the female fighter in it for a few days but when she died I scrubbed the tank with nothing more than hot water & refilled it with treated water.That was about a week or ten days ago.I have done a little water change to see if I could change the Ph but then I decided to do nothing more until the end of this week to see if anything changed.I test the water every day & so far nothing has changed.

As regards my main tank I have gravel which I bought in my LFS where I got the tank & all the other bits.There is a ship wreck in 2 parts & a few what look like plastic plants.Everything including the tank was washed in hot water before I set it up.
The problems started when I treated the tank for white spot.
Incidentally forgive my ignorance but what is Co2 & how would you use peat or bogwood in a tank ?

Tony.

Hi Tony
nothing in your quarantine tank mystery or what:unsure:

some times when you add a new filter it can effect your pH in the short term. this may be the case here?!?

Co2 is good for plants in some case its a must.
www.aquariumfish.net/pages/co2_systems.htm


bogwood as the name suggest is wood found buried in the bog were it may have been for hundreds or thousands of year. it is very useful in design and aquascaping aquariums and looks great while benefiting some fish

Mickey

mickeywallace wrote:

Hi Tony
nothing in your quarantine tank mystery or what:unsure:

some times when you add a new filter it can effect your pH in the short term. this may be the case here?!?

Co2 is good for plants in some case its a must.
www.aquariumfish.net/pages/co2_systems.htm


bogwood as the name suggest is wood found buried in the bog were it may have been for hundreds or thousands of year. it is very useful in design and aquascaping aquariums and looks great while benefiting some fish

Mickey

Hi Mickey.
I cleaned out the quarintine tank when the fighter died just in case there might be something lurking there so theres nothing in there but water.

I did a water test on the main tank today & the results are the same as yesterday.
Ph 6.
Ammonia 1.
Nitrate 0.
Nitrite 0.

The tests on the quarintine tank are also the same as yesterday.
Thanks for the Co2 link.

Tony.