Yet another Ph question

I invested in a Gh Kh test today and while doing that I decided to test the ph while I was at it.
I nearly toppled over when I got a reading of 8.0- 8.2
I hadn't tested in a while as the ph normally always came back to me at around 7.2-7.4
I tested the ph in 3 of my tanks and 2 were at 8.0 the other one was 8.2
My tap water is 7.4
How did this happen??

Wow, that's scary to get such a huge jump. Are your fish doing ok?
Do you use anything in your filter other than the usual at all?

no nothing like that, and I just took some samples to my lfs, and the guy there was able to tell me that the ph in the water here in lucan is going up considerably.
Thank you Dublin CC:angry:

I need a method for lowering the ph and keeping it there,
who uses the almond leaves?
how stable is the ph with it?
what about Co2 (diy for now) can you keep the ph stable with it?


I know a stable ph is better then a fluctuating one but, 8.2 (I don't keep africans)

I would have thougth you could buy something to loweer the PH in your lfs? I know you can buffer the Ph can it not go the other way? I would recommend a big water change.

I do big water changes every 4-5 days, last 50% was done on sunday, on all the tanks, I know you can buy stuff in the lfs, but I would like not to add chemicals to the water.
I am in the process of setting up a shrimp tank (or 2 if I get my way:P ) and they would do better with a ph of 7.5 max.

Anyone knows how stable the ph is with the use of either almond leaves or co2?
Or even peat?

AS far as I know it takes a while for the PH to drop with peat, a few days as it take time for it to leech into the water. Sorry I cant be of more help.

I have time, not expecting any shrimp till the end of may, would be a bonus if I find them before that, but I am not counting on it anymore, how good is it at keeping the ph down and stable??

Why May and where are they comming from? WRT peat I am not sure how stable it is. I thought you needed a quick fix for the tanks now?? Am I wrong?

No I would like to get the ph down permanently to 7.5 max in a tank that is giving me readings of 8.0-8.2, there is a piece of mopani wood wich covers 75% of the floor of of the tank. (set up since october)
I have a relative coming over with my b-day presents the end of may:P

Have you tested Gh & KH this is important. you can have a high Ph but the kh & gh react accordingly. Example you can have a Ph of 7 But the Gh & Kh can be 2, this is where problems start. Lowering Ph can cause the Gh&Kh to drop to zero and results in Ph crashes. It would take a sackful of Almond leaves to get the Ph down as the proper way to use them is to soak them for about 10 days to leech out the tannins etc. and use when changing water so you would need a constant supply!!!
Peat granuels in the filter is also used but this can become expensive . Blackwater extract is another over stated product, The best way is A.D.A Amazon 2 soil, expesive but last up to 2 years. keeps the Ph around 7. mine is 6.5 It is easier to increase Ph than Lowere it

Okay hm I dunno if I read this right but Gh was 180 (added 9 drops to get result and had to multiply by 20)
Kh was 100 (had to add 10 drops to see result)
How can it be a single number like 2????
please help

Also, anyone nows were to get the ADA aquasoil? any of the sponsors here do them?

I just came across this Almond leaf guide on ebay of all places. It seems pretty good and has good ideas for how to use them in your tank.

reviews.ebay.com/How-to-use-Indian-Almon...idZ10000000004008374

I think i'll get me some of them

Your best choice whould be rain water. In case you need to you can mix it with tap water to achieve the ph you are aiming for.

mrs fishpatrick wrote:

Okay hm I dunno if I read this right but Gh was 180 (added 9 drops to get result and had to multiply by 20)
Kh was 100 (had to add 10 drops to see result)
How can it be a single number like 2????
please help

Astrid you multiply the ppm (kh 100ppm) x 0.056
This will give you GH 10 and KH 5.6

rclerkin wrote:

I just came across this Almond leaf guide on ebay of all places. It seems pretty good and has good ideas for how to use them in your tank.

reviews.ebay.com/How-to-use-Indian-Almon...idZ10000000004008374

I think i'll get me some of them

i remember a friend from Singapore used to send me ketapang teabags to try out and they were great ! 'vi not seen anything like that commercially available he just crushes them leaves and places them in some teabag type material and you just put it directly on to water or on your overhead filter water flow

Here's my own leaves I picked up one time:

The best way to guarantee your water stays stable is the use of an RO unit and add your minerals back in. That means you are keeping the water the same all the time at water changes, with peat or almond leaves you need to prepare your water well in advance of water changes. like Russell said 10 days + . With peat and almond leaves it only works well with medium kh gh , to lower the pH, It sounds to me the water is relatively medium to hard in your area now. (must check mine , usually up to now it was 2 degrees hardness,which is soft 2 drops of the test. ) In relation to pH (i'll probably get bounced off for this comment ) I found it is not as important in relation to just keeping fish healthy as opposed to the hardness of the water. I found stable pH can be better at a wide range once the fish become accustomed to it. Rather than messing around with it causing fluctuations which tend to stress the fish more. When you start messing with the chemistry of the water it can lead to more problems and pH has to be adjusted slowly. I would stay away from all those chemicals pH up and down etc I think they can cause more harm than good. The likes of Phosphoric acid can reduce your pH but will have no effect on the hardness like the other chemicals they drop pH but dont alter the hardness. If you are really concerned about your pH a RO unit is the best way to go, because you can bring your water to whatever readings you want. I re add minerals , but you can mix it with your tap water to get to the desired point. It is important that you do mix it back as pure RO water is very unstable and cannot be used on its own in a tank for loads of reason's , filtration , fishes osmotic regulation, etc. In relation to ADA amazonian soil you can get it from the green machine online , I dont think aquaessentials do it anymore???? I dont imagine any LFS here stock it , and its about 50€ for delivery plus £38 approx per bag for every 60 ltrs.

RO unit, dang........ how am I going to put that in front of the hubbie, I think I am doing quite well so far bringin 4 fishtanks in the house (working on the 5th:laugh: ) Don't forget I am only in the hobby for less than a year.

As an update, I tested my tap water's Ph
immedeatly 7.4
after an hour 7.8
after 24 hours 8.6

I want to get my ph, Gh, Kh down because the fish are getting a bit skittish and the 5th tank I am working on is a CRS tank I am planning for the end of may.

dilemma's dilemma's dilemma's

do any fish shops sell RO water?

Why are people so stuck on Ph. As Zoom & I have been saying Gh & Kh are the most important factors. R.O Water gives you virtualy O Kh & 0 Kh/ this is dangerous as it is. RO has no Body it is dead water -Pure- so you have to add some solids back, just a few. you can do this by Adding R.O Right or\tap Water. / or in my case I balance the R.O output via a T conector to the Pre membrane line.( Before it enters the membrane) to get tyhe Gh & Kh up to around 2 to 3. this is preferable for SOFT WATER FISH. To this you use Co2 to lower the Ph.

Now comes the problem, with a low Gh/Kh which is what we want for breeding , Using Co2 or ANYTHING ELSE, with a low Gh.Kh you can get a Ph CRASH unless you are experienced and needs careful monitoring or you could wipe out your stck.!!!!!!
I can have soft water with a GH/Kh of 3 and a Ph of 7!!!!!!
Realy unless you are a seriuse breeder of soft water fish just stick with your normal easy to run regime and enjoy your hobby.
Keep all readings CONSTANT and the fish will be happy.

As an after though here is an rough cost outlay for my wild stock,equipement etc.

5 Wld Tefe Discus 650
R.O unit 100gpd 150 an essential
TDS Meter 48 an essential
Ph controller 160
ADA Smazon soil 40
Co2 supply 50
diffuser & bubble
counter 15

To this add RO filters x 3 sets per year - Co2 replinishment as nescessary

A Basic initial outlay RO & TDS around £200 from U.K or 400 euro in Ireland.

Nothing worth doing is Cheap - Think before you dive in or it can be a costly mistake

It is not for fish, it is for CRS shrimp I want the water right, and yes I would like them to breed, as much as possible:)

There are a lot of knowledgable peope on the forums who have success in breeding many species, Myself I am a Discus man and have been for 50 years, John H is good for Apisto's & Killi's Platty for killies and Daragh for Cat's and I thinks he is into shrimps I may be wrong, and ther are many others. If it is specific advice on a species I suggest you post a request for people with experience in that field for advice. I have been trying to help you understand the pro's and con's of Ph which is what you asked,
Hope you get the answers to your questions. Best of luch

A different approach from the RO route (which is a bit much unless you're really really serious I think) is to get a water softner pillow and put it into your filter to soften the water already in your tank. You can then add bogwood, mopani wood or something else that will reduce your ph by releasing tannins into the water that will increase its acidity.
I know Aquatic Village have the softner pillow. I believe it works using Osmosis or somthing like that.

Anywho, what you need to do is reduce the carbonate hardness (Kh) which acts as the ph buffer. You don't need to focus on the General hardness (tho I'm not sure if changing one changes the other).
Once your carbonate hardness is reduced your ph changes will be more effective.

You might want to hold off on the shrimp for a while tho. If your water is difficult from the tap every water becomes a pain. I was doing 12L water changes through a britta water filter to soften the water. It was a real pain. The britta jug takes about 1L at a time so 12 fills of the jug, each time wating for it to drain. It really put me off the hobby. All so I could lower the ph.

russell wrote:

There are a lot of knowledgable peope on the forums who have success in breeding many species, Myself I am a Discus man and have been for 50 years, John H is good for Apisto's & Killi's Platty for killies and Daragh for Cat's and I thinks he is into shrimps I may be wrong, and ther are many others. If it is specific advice on a species I suggest you post a request for people with experience in that field for advice. I have been trying to help you understand the pro's and con's of Ph which is what you asked,
Hope you get the answers to your questions. Best of luch

And I very much appreciate all your comments, and everyone else who chimes in, I am taking it all in,
As for the shrimp, they will not be here for another 2 months so that is why I am doing the research now, and asking as many questions as possible, exploring all the routes that might lead to were I want to get.
thanks a mill

Your welcome and it's nice to see some one doing there homework before taking on a project, I hope all goes well, please keep us informed as we make be asking you for advice later. even me!!!! the RCS look nice.

I'd say i'll be picking your brain a lot more before I can actually give out advice:)

just wondering has anyone else noticed their ph making a huge jump in 24 hours
7.4 straight from the tap
7.8 after an hour
8.6 after 24 hours!
(this is not my tankwater but water I kept in a container seperate)

The ph in my tank is sticking at 8.0-8.2 in my tanks but I am worried about doing a wc right now.

Going to ring the council tomorrow and see wtf is going on

hi astrid very small partial changes can probably help while the tap ph levels are high, I noticed here in d4 it's very alkaline and hopefully adding another driftwood would help buffer it a bit to go higher

Ph is a subject in itself and influenced by many factore, to long to go into at lenght. Basicaly when the Ph in your water supply is very high to start with the supplier will add varios acids to lower it as a high Ph will corrode the pipework. the acids react with the ions in the water to reduce the Ph to the require level
When you take your first test from the tap it will read say 7.0 because it contains all the acids added by the supplier. as the water stands the acids etc start to loose there efficiency so a few hours later the water will start to restablish itself to its original level afte.r 24 hours the water Ph will settle out to the very begining as all the added chemicals deplete.

Hope this helps

So it is quite normal to make a jump up, i thought it should be the other way around, thanks for the info russel

The supplier adds the acid to lower the Ph from say 8.0 to 7.0 to stop a build up of basical;y "crud" from building up and restricting the flow. the high ph indicates high calcium contaents etc. so the acid reduces the Ph to a more acid side. more to a Neutral Ph of 7'0 All suppliers say they don't add anything but they do, the most common being sulphuric acid, imagine the outcry if the population were told they had sulphuric acid in the supply. the ammount is tollerated by us mere humans but not by our Fish.
If you to add "Ph down" you would see your Ph drop. but after time it will return to it's original reading The change being only temporery.