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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Koi Lying On His Side At Bottom Of Pond

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22 Nov 2011 20:00 #1 by JamesG (James Gargan)
Hi Guys,

In my post yesterday I mentioned my one bigger Koi seemed to be acting a bit odd and sucking on the liner on the very top of the pond. Now he is at the bottom lying on his side looking a bit contorted. I've stopped feeding them but it may be a bit too late for this one. I gave him a poke when I came home this evening and he moved a little on his side (inches). The temperature dropped quite a bit last night and this morning.

I tested water last night, PH about 7.5 and Ammonia 0.25.

Is there anything I can do to save this fish???

All suggestions welcome.

James.

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22 Nov 2011 20:14 #2 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: Koi Lying On His Side At Bottom Of Pond
Sorry if I bug you being the first to reply but what's your Aeration like? are the other Fish showing any negative symptoms like gasping etc?

Kev.

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22 Nov 2011 20:19 #3 by JamesG (James Gargan)
Great that you're online Kev. The others are fine. They are smaller only about 4 inches. Is there a test for Aeration? Sorry i'm a newbie as I mentioned yesterday.

I have an oversized pump and filter which supposidly turns the pond over 2 or 3 times an hour. The water drops from about a foot into the pond from four difference nozzles in the filter so I would have thought it was OK.

What do you reckon?

I have the pump on a winter 'sludge' setting. I could switch it to summer? The only thing is my sick fish is lying beside the pump.

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22 Nov 2011 20:28 #4 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: Koi Lying On His Side At Bottom Of Pond
What is his respiration like? fast movement in Gills or slow?
There is no real test for Oxygen concentration outside professional equipment, what size is the ill fish?
Your Ammonia reading could be the culprit, I'd suggest a partial water change, I'm guessing the Tap is outside, if that is the case there should be little in the way of temperature changes. Also, if you can get a lend of a Pond vac to remove waste from the bottom it will go a long way to curing the problem of Ammonia. PH has a bearing on the affect of Ammonia depending on how hi or lo it is, higher PH makes Ammonia tolerance lower.

Kev.

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22 Nov 2011 20:41 #5 by JamesG (James Gargan)
He not really moving at all. He on his side, contored with one gill wide open.

Tap is outside. I'll start a water change. 30%.

Should I turn up the pump to summer setting (faster). I don't know anyone with a pond vac or even a pond!!!

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22 Nov 2011 20:49 #6 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: Koi Lying On His Side At Bottom Of Pond
It will help if his cond is related to Ammonia, try to aim the water at the Surface rather than directly into the Pond, this will avoid stirring up any muck that may be on the bottom, sorry this is happening, it's a horrible thing to witness stuff happening that seems out of your control.

Kev

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22 Nov 2011 20:53 #7 by JamesG (James Gargan)
Pumped about 30% out in about 7 minutes (guy in the shop wasn't lying about the pump, neighbours garden probably flooded! I worry about that tomorrow). Putting fresh water in now. Should I put 'Fresh Start' in when pond full or now do you think.

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22 Nov 2011 21:00 #8 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: Koi Lying On His Side At Bottom Of Pond
Suggestions are when you have a Fish ailing and if it's possibly Ammonia related, not to, Chlorine should disperse if you spray the refill over the surface, is he listless or totally still, if there is a sign of life you could retrieve him from the bottom and gently hold him mouth first into the weakest part of the water returning into the Pond, your Filter should have sufficient bacteria to keep things going, if you wanted to, you could put some in tomorrow.

Kev.

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22 Nov 2011 22:13 #9 by JamesG (James Gargan)
I've done the water change. Got the fish out and held him the right way up for about 5 minutes (water is bloody cold). While I was holding him in the low flow he was breathing but did make an effort to swim away from me. When I let go he made best efforts to return to end of pond away from filter so I helped him along. Now lying on his side beside pump - furthest place awy from filter.

Is there anything else I can do?

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22 Nov 2011 22:47 #10 by k.galvin (Kieran Galvin)
could you put him in a tank and bring the water temp up slowly, I have read that a sudden drop in temp can cause swim bladder problems.
Down here in Cork it has been quite mild for November but last night got cold really quickly, everywhere was white this morning.

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23 Nov 2011 16:28 #11 by k.galvin (Kieran Galvin)
Silly Question James... But have you stopped feeding the fish? I normally stop around the end of October before the first frost and resume in the spring. The general consensus is to stop when water temp hits 10 degrees centigrade. You said in the previous post that the water was bloody cold... Just a thought.

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23 Nov 2011 19:25 #12 by JamesG (James Gargan)
I hadn't stopped feeding them and yes the temperature dropped significantly on Monday night and Tuesday morning. I only started the pond a few months ago and this was my best fish!!!

From reading up it seems I should have stopped feeding a few weeks ago. That coupled with the sudden cold temperature and 0.25 ammonia - I seem to have killed him.

Just got home this evening and he hasn't budged, I thought he was dead but seems like he's just about still breathing.

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23 Nov 2011 20:14 #13 by k.galvin (Kieran Galvin)
If you can get him into a tank with a little heat and aeration you might save him, nothing worse than losing fish, especially when you have only started :(

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23 Nov 2011 20:46 #14 by JamesG (James Gargan)
I've no tank but could use a cobble something together and bring him inside. No way to aerate though!?

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23 Nov 2011 21:54 #15 by BlueRam (Sean Crowe)
wat about something like this?

www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/fish/2723593

sean

Sean Crowe

ITFS Member

Location: Navan

Always Remember Surviving Is Not Thriving

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23 Nov 2011 22:37 #16 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: Koi Lying On His Side At Bottom Of Pond
IKEA sell some great containers, nice big ones and relatively cheap too.

Kev

Sorry he died, you didn't kill him, circumstances did, we have all done or heard of someone doing things the shouldn't have, as long as we learn from our mistakes it's a plus.

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23 Nov 2011 22:43 #17 by JamesG (James Gargan)
Has anyone any idea how much it costs to run a pond heater for 2000L's?

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24 Nov 2011 10:16 #18 by k.galvin (Kieran Galvin)
I think it would be quite pricey to heat the pond James, and I also think it is probably not necessary on the back of losing one fish (albeit your best one).
With the right care regime your fish will be fine I have only 250 litres in my plastic pond 36" diam x 15" deep and my 6 goldfish even survived last winter when temps got down to -15 at one stage, no food from end of Oct to beginning of Feb, 1" of ice on the pond most mornings (leave a couple of footballs floating in the pond and it wont ice over completely) but the fish came out the other end unfazed by it, and the waterlily had twice as many flowers as the previous year. It's sad to lose your best fish but you know why it happened now ,100% of fishkeepers have made mistakes along the line, so don't let it put you off :)

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24 Nov 2011 12:03 #19 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: Koi Lying On His Side At Bottom Of Pond
[quote="the waterlily had twice as many flowers as the previous year.[/quote]

It's funny that you should say that, I'm a Horticulturist and I specialise in some of the rarer warm climate species of Plants and this year they have flowered much more profusely than any other year, Plants under stress are forced to try to reproduce themselves and subsequently more Flowers are produced.

Kev.

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24 Nov 2011 12:29 - 24 Nov 2011 12:30 #20 by k.galvin (Kieran Galvin)
Did not know that Kev, the waterlilies were certainly under stress last year with the temps so low, could be wrong but I think it will be a bit less severe this winter. :unsure:

Kieran.
Last edit: 24 Nov 2011 12:30 by k.galvin (Kieran Galvin). Reason: spelling

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24 Nov 2011 20:01 #21 by JamesG (James Gargan)
Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the advice over the past few days, much appreciated.

Seems like I a bit to learn - very quickly! So the shopping list for the weekend is:-

1. A bucket for hiding from the heron.
2. A couple of footballs for the ice.

Is there anything else I need other than to keep checking the Ph, Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite?

James.

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