Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Fish Staying At The Bottom

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Buffy (Buffy)
Topic Author
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25 Apr 2007 15:12 #1 by Buffy (Buffy)

Fish Staying At The Bottom was created by Buffy (Buffy)

I need some urgent advice,I have (not for long by the look of things)
Black moors and shebunkins.I have had them for about 4 yrs. now.
I got 2 new black moors about a month ago and everything was fine.But since
last thursday I have lost 4 fish

The latest passed away tonight a black moor :cry: :cry: I went through all the posts regarding the cause on this site and I cant seem to come up with an answer as to what to do.I did see a post
about dying goldfish and the advice given was to empty the tank,which I have done 3 times since last night but still my fish are at the bottom in a corner all huddled together.Any advice appreciated
Thanks
I have photos but cant see a link to allow me to post them up.

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KenS (Ken Simpson)
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25 Apr 2007 15:14 #2 by KenS (Ken Simpson)

Replied by KenS (Ken Simpson) on topic Re: Fish Staying At The Bottom

Hi Buffy,

Welcome to the forum.

Can you give us some details on the size of your tank, how and when you do water changes. Do you use dechlorinator when changing water?

Do you have a test kit to give us some readings for ammonia, nitrITE, nitrATE? Do you know your pH?

In instances like this, the first thing to look at is water quality. Most diseases are caused by water quality issues.

Regards,

Ken.

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Buffy (Buffy)
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25 Apr 2007 15:35 #3 by Buffy (Buffy)

Replied by Buffy (Buffy) on topic Re: Fish Staying At The Bottom

my tank is 4ftx3 I do full water changes every month and do a 10% water change once a week.I havent done a Ph test .I know didnt think :oops: I have cleaned the filter 3 times today as well.Will buy a new test kit tomorrow
and see how the water is.I put stress coat in the tank before I put fish back.
Never used a dechlorinator T.B.H.

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ChrisM (ChrisM)
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25 Apr 2007 15:53 #4 by ChrisM (ChrisM)

Replied by ChrisM (ChrisM) on topic Re: Fish Staying At The Bottom

Cleaning the filter may have eradicated all of the nitrifying and heterotrophic bacteria which break down ammonia and other waste.Check for ammonia and nitrite,I doubt if nitrate is your problem?

It is also worth checking the things which are easily overlooked, such as a faulty heater, poisoning, flukes etc.

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25 Apr 2007 15:53 #5 by Acara (Dave Walters)

Replied by Acara (Dave Walters) on topic Re: Fish Staying At The Bottom

Stress coat is a dechlorinator.Amongst other things.

always on the lookout for interesting corys.pm me if you know off any!

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Buffy (Buffy)
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25 Apr 2007 16:07 #6 by Buffy (Buffy)

Replied by Buffy (Buffy) on topic Re: Fish Staying At The Bottom

I never had a heater in with these fish! Just a pump and large air stone.
The reason I cleaned the filter so much was because of the fish that died,
I felt there might be contamination in the water from them.I am beginning to feel a bit foolish now :oops: After 4 yrs of having these fish I didn't know they needed warm water I am totally confused about this :?

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ChrisM (ChrisM)
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25 Apr 2007 16:16 #7 by ChrisM (ChrisM)

Replied by ChrisM (ChrisM) on topic Re: Fish Staying At The Bottom

They dont need hot water,but temperature fluctuations can do harm.They will be happy in both, as long as it is constant.I reckon something was introduced with the 2 new additions, and it slowly broke down the existing fishes immune systems.
Sometimes there is no diagnosis,just head scratching.If you want to eradicate whatever it was i nyour tank, Anto is your man to talk to,he is well up on his medications and if that fails he has a big shovel :lol:

Seriously though,from what I have read it was well out of your control!I have lost my fair share of fish to mystery illness's!

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25 Apr 2007 16:16 #8 by Acara (Dave Walters)

Replied by Acara (Dave Walters) on topic Re: Fish Staying At The Bottom

No need to feel foolish,we are all learning constantly,nobody on this,or any forum,knows everything about fishkeeping.What works for one person and his fish,may not work for another.
You were quite right,a heater is not needed for the fish you have.
Sorry I don't actualy have any practical advice for your situation,but try to get those water parameters posted and someone will sort you out.

always on the lookout for interesting corys.pm me if you know off any!

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Buffy (Buffy)
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25 Apr 2007 16:34 #9 by Buffy (Buffy)

Replied by Buffy (Buffy) on topic Re: Fish Staying At The Bottom

Yes I feel you could be right about the new additions I added1 I thought about it too ChrisM.
Acara will post up the ph results tomorrow
and thank you all for the great advice.Appreciate all you help so far,I understand you cannot do a diagnosis without knowing the ph levels etc.
Will have as much info as I can tomorrow. :wink: :wink:

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KenS (Ken Simpson)
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25 Apr 2007 16:57 #10 by KenS (Ken Simpson)

Replied by KenS (Ken Simpson) on topic Re: Fish Staying At The Bottom

Hi Buffy,

You should never need to totally break down and clean your tank. As Chris says, beneficial bacteria develop and cleaning your filter and tank with tap water will kill them (chlorine in the water will kill the bacteria). Only clean your filter in tank water to preserve the bacteria.

You should aim at doing 25% water changes every weeking using dechlorinated water. Stresscoat is fine. Make sure the water you're adding is brought up to the temperature of your tank before adding.

You should also look at a heater. Many people who keep cold water fish use them but keep them set at 20 to 22c. This means that if the room goes cold, there won't be a major drop in the temperature. Major temperature fluctuations stress fish and stressed fish are more prone to disesase.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Ken.

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apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
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26 Apr 2007 01:10 #11 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)

Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: Fish Staying At The Bottom

"ChrisM" wrote:
Cleaning the filter may have eradicated all of the nitrifying and heterotrophic bacteria which break down ammonia and other waste.Check for ammonia and nitrite,I doubt if nitrate is your problem?

Nitryfing bacteria (Nitrobactors) break down nitrite to nitrate,nitrosifyers break down ammonia to nitrite:

NH3 + O2 + 2e- + 2H+ → NH2OH + H2O or NH2OH + H2O + 1/2 O2 → NO2- +2 H2O + H+

Nitrite to nitrate:

NO2- + 1/2 O2 → NO3-

Ok, enough of the chemical talk. Essentially Chris is right. Filter maintenance is important, more so with messy fish like goldfish.
Always clean in a bucket with aquarium or dechlorinated water.
I think this is probably the issue.
I would rule out temperature fluctiations as the cause of your trouble. If you keep them in a pond outside during the summer you will get them too and the fish don't mind.

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Buffy (Buffy)
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26 Apr 2007 10:41 #12 by Buffy (Buffy)

Replied by Buffy (Buffy) on topic Re: Fish Staying At The Bottom

just an update to let yous know I done the water test and it came up as 7
good or bad??I noticed today that one of the remaining black moors has some sort of injury on his back.If I can I will post a pic.The fish havent moved much all day,still at the bottom.Is there any way at all I can save the remaining fish??Should I move them out of the tank??Really disappointed this all happened suddenly after having these fish for years to see them the way they are now.I now beleive the new fish I added done the damage

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apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
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27 Apr 2007 01:49 #13 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)

Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: Fish Staying At The Bottom

Is that a pH test that came out as 7? That's neutral water and perfectly fine. What is more important in your case is ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in that order since they get progressively less toxic to fish. The picture you posted is a bit out of focus but by the looks of it your fish has a cut of some sort rather than an external infection.

Check your water again but I have a suspicion that your fish don't suffer from ammonia/nitrite or nitrate poisonomg or they would be more likley be at the surface gulping for air.

I would try a dose of eSHA 2000. Great braodband medication

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Buffy (Buffy)
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30 Apr 2007 10:50 #14 by Buffy (Buffy)

Replied by Buffy (Buffy) on topic Re: Fish Staying At The Bottom

Thanks everyone for all the advice and help,however all my fish died one by one over the past few days,velvet disease was diagnosed and it was too late to save them.I want to get back into keeping tropical fish again and wonder what measures I should take to make sure the tank is free from all parasites.
I will strip it down completely,should I get rid of all the acessories?Pump air stones,oraments stones etc.?And buy new?If not is there a good way of cleaning them?
Thanks

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KenS (Ken Simpson)
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30 Apr 2007 13:17 #15 by KenS (Ken Simpson)

Replied by KenS (Ken Simpson) on topic Re: Fish Staying At The Bottom

Hi Buffy,

Sorry to hear that you lost all your fish. It's best to have a collection of treatments to hand for some of the more common ailments. Therefore, you're equiped to react quickly if you spot an outbreak. The 12 hours to wait overnight to get to your LFS and pick up a treatment can be the difference between life and death.

It's also a good idea to purchase a small tank and set up as a quarantine/hospital tank. Therefore, any fish needing treatment can be isolated and treated. This avoids treating all your fish when they possibly don't need it. You should be able to set up a quarantine tank (20 litres is fine) for around €40 or less.

Parasites will not last very long without a host, i.e. fish. Therefore, since you've no fish, the parasite will also die off. Just clean everything with warm water and it should be fine - avoid using detergents as any trace is very bad for your fish. However, I would replace airstones and filter media.

Problems like velvet usually stem from water quality issues. Make sure you read between now and setting up your tank and understand the cycling process. A test kit is also a must.

I'm sure you've learned a lot over the last week. Unfortunately, this hobby has a habit of teaching us harsh lessons. We all have stories like this to tell.

Regards,

Ken.

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Buffy (Buffy)
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30 Apr 2007 15:12 #16 by Buffy (Buffy)

Replied by Buffy (Buffy) on topic Re: Fish Staying At The Bottom

Thanks for the advice Ken :wink: I will take on board all the advice you and others have kindly given me and I will get a small tank for quarantine,I will be buying all the test kits and treatments I can get my hands on before I set up my tank again,and of course will go through all the threads here and pick up all the tips before I buy any more fish. I hope to post up pics of my new fish in a few weeks time.
Once again thanks everyone for all the help.
Appreciated :wink:

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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Fish Staying At The Bottom