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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Tetra - safestart - not so safe?

  • 2poc (2poc)
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16 Feb 2007 03:15 #1 by 2poc (2poc)
Tetra - safestart - not so safe? was created by 2poc (2poc)
Bought a new 50 litre tank at the weekend to sit on the kitchen counter.
I intended on bypassing cycling by adding substrate, bogwood, water etc. from my established tank.

The chap in the shop explained that there was no need for cycling the tank any more that tetra's new product was excellent & would bypass the process.

So I decided to give it a try & left the shop with the tank, safestart & 3 lovely (but expensive at 15 EUR each) juvenile pearlscales.
Went home & followed the instructions for safestart - got the tank set up & heated the water to 20 degrees before adding the safestart then the fish.

Yesterday - 2 dead pearlscales & nitrite reading is off the scale..
Rescued the last pearlscale by getting him into the established tank...

So now two lovely little fish are dead & I am down 30 quid..
Not a happy camper....

All instructions were followed to the letter......

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  • apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
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16 Feb 2007 03:26 #2 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: Tetra - safestart - not so safe?
If I recall correctly, it states on the back of the safestart packaging that you should wait for 48 hours before you add fisch. Your nitrate could be high because the dead fish were already decaying.

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  • Didihno (Didihno)
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16 Feb 2007 03:30 #3 by Didihno (Didihno)
Replied by Didihno (Didihno) on topic Re: Tetra - safestart - not so safe?
I have learned that there is only one way to cheat the cycle, and thats to use the American product Bio-spira (which we can't get).
All other products do not instantly cycle tanks.
Read this:

badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article34.html

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16 Feb 2007 03:31 #4 by Didihno (Didihno)
Replied by Didihno (Didihno) on topic Re: Tetra - safestart - not so safe?
Why does this keep happening?!!!

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  • russell (russell)
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16 Feb 2007 03:37 #5 by russell (russell)
Replied by russell (russell) on topic Safestart
I agree! Ther is no substitute for proper recycling, all you have done is add a bit of bogwood and some water from an existing tank. this will be dilluted into the new water. The beneficial Bacteria is in your substrate & or fiter. Why risk loosing your fish due to being impatient???
An expensive lesson and 2 less fish'.
Recycling takes time but is less costly in the long run.

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16 Feb 2007 04:07 #6 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
I would agree too. If you have an established tank, then just use some substrate, decorations and filter media. Just add fish slowly after that and you should be fine.

Regards,

Ken.

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  • Anthony (Anthony)
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16 Feb 2007 04:08 #7 by Anthony (Anthony)
Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re: Tetra - safestart - not so safe?
Best way is to kick start from an existing tank by squeezing thr bi med from a sponge.

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16 Feb 2007 04:33 #8 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: Tetra - safestart - not so safe?
Ok, this discussion was had before. Nitrosomas and Nitrobacter can both form spores that are potentially viable for years, i.e. they can survive without food. It is absolute nonsense that they need to be refrigerated or else biological weapons like anthrax would also have to be refigerated. Kind of hard to do considering they are strapped to a missile.
I don't want to go into the whole science of spore production in bacteria but here is a short outline:
-minimisation of the viable cell through water loss
-build up of a multilayered cocoon like structure
-calcium salt and cipicoline acid built up and storage in the inside of the cell, which in turn will make proteins and nuclei acids more resistant to heat and other outside influences
Putting bacteria in the fridge will do very little for them.
There are a lot of non-sensical webpages out there. Most of them sponsored by the maufacturers of one product or another. Don't believe it just because it's on the net....

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  • 2poc (2poc)
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16 Feb 2007 04:54 #9 by 2poc (2poc)
Replied by 2poc (2poc) on topic Re: Tetra - safestart - not so safe?
Ok, just let me clear a few things up…

Firstly - I have an established tank already. My intention was to add substrate, water & bogwood from this
tank. This also has an external canister filter which I could have taken some biomedia from if required.
If I was that eager to get the fish I could have even left them in the main tank while I was cycling the other one.

Secondly - I told the chap in the shop (established shop, good reputation on this site) that this was my intention & he recommended safestart as an alternative.
He sold me the tank, fish, safestart & told me to heat up the water to 20 degrees, add the safestart then add
the fish - that the whole process should take about 2 hours.

This is exactly what I did.

I certainly don't see this is an expensive lesson due to impatience on my behalf.
Had I stuck to my guns & used the materials from the established tank like I intended in the first place I'm sure the fish would have been fine...

What the actual problem was - I don't know..
I'm blaming safestart as its the variable in the equation.

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  • ChrisM (ChrisM)
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16 Feb 2007 05:05 #10 by ChrisM (ChrisM)
Replied by ChrisM (ChrisM) on topic Re: Tetra - safestart - not so safe?
Bottom line is there is no quick fix when it comes to chemical additives in regard to cycling.When I cycle a new tank I make the new tank filthy with filter and sponge squeezings.It doesnt look good starting off but at least the bacteria is present in large numbers and the fish are ok.

One thing I havent heard mentioned yet is the use of Ammonia to speed up or increase bio load.Anyone ever heard or tried this?It has been done before but Ammonia differs too much in strength from brand to brand so its a bit too risky.

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16 Feb 2007 05:07 #11 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: Tetra - safestart - not so safe?
This does not make sense. Why 20 degrees? Nitrosoma and Nitrobacter work better at around 25 degrees. Well, actually even better at 30 degrees but you will have issues with oxygen supply in the aquarium environment. You would have to add supplementary food for them to stay active.
However, even with safe start you are not supposed to stock after only two hours. i'd go back to the shop and slap the guy in there senseless with the bottle. read the instructions on the back of the bottle...

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16 Feb 2007 05:08 #12 by JohnH (John)
My suggestion is that you go back to the place you bought all this from, tell the man what happened and ask him his observations...take the dead fish back too.

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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  • 2poc (2poc)
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16 Feb 2007 05:11 #13 by 2poc (2poc)
Replied by 2poc (2poc) on topic Re: Tetra - safestart - not so safe?

Bottom line is there is no quick fix when it comes to chemical additives in regard to cycling.When I cycle a new tank I make the new tank filthy with filter and sponge squeezings.It doesnt look good starting off but at least the bacteria is present in large numbers and the fish are ok.

One thing I havent heard mentioned yet is the use of Ammonia to speed up or increase bio load.Anyone ever heard or tried this?It has been done before but Ammonia differs too much in strength from brand to brand so its a bit too risky.


But in this case then Tetra Safestart is just a little bottle of lies as its selling point is add product + fish on the same day??

The last thing I would want to do is put the welfare of the fish at stake.
BUT when an expert recommends this way over the traditional method.. Wwell for me I thought I might just give it a try..

P.s. I have read something on here about adding Ammonia before so you might find something if you dig around.

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  • 2poc (2poc)
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16 Feb 2007 05:14 #14 by 2poc (2poc)
Replied by 2poc (2poc) on topic Re: Tetra - safestart - not so safe?

This does not make sense. Why 20 degrees? Nitrosoma and Nitrobacter work better at around 25 degrees. Well, actually even better at 30 degrees but you will have issues with oxygen supply in the aquarium environment. You would have to add supplementary food for them to stay active.
However, even with safe start you are not supposed to stock after only two hours. i'd go back to the shop and slap the guy in there senseless with the bottle. read the instructions on the back of the bottle...


It also says on the bottle that the water must be at least 20 degrees before adding the product - it was actually at 21 when I added it
(which took about 4 hours). I was looking up the web for safestart & its selling point is add fish & product on the same day so this is how it is designed to be used.
Also - like I said the shop is a very reputable place - in fact definitely in the top 2 ranked on this site...

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  • apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
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16 Feb 2007 05:27 #15 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: Tetra - safestart - not so safe?
Shouldn't that post be moved to the coldwater section. Pearlscales, after all are only glorified goldfish. I misread the post and thought we are talking about pearl gouramis. My apologies.
Goldfish at 21 degrees?

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  • 2poc (2poc)
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16 Feb 2007 05:40 #16 by 2poc (2poc)
Replied by 2poc (2poc) on topic Re: Tetra - safestart - not so safe?
The guys in the shop explained that they are not like typical goldfish & do better at 20 degrees.

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  • russell (russell)
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16 Feb 2007 12:35 #17 by russell (russell)
Replied by russell (russell) on topic Safe start
Well spotted I thought it was a pearlscale Gourami!!!!!!!!

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