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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Improving a pond

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17 Jun 2010 18:29 #1 by Penny (Aedh Byrne)
Hey, the other day I was at a friend's workplace to pick up something and noticed the small pond out the back in a sort of courtyard garden. It is about 1m sq, possibly a bit longer but not very deep. There is a very gentle gradient so only the very middle has any decent depth - i'd hazard a guess at 2-3 foot max. There are some plants in the middle at the deepest part which pretty much take it over. The water is coloured green and the 1 goldfish looked healthy but wasn't moving about much. I asked my mate about it and she said they put a few gallons of fresh water in each day to try keep it oxygenated.

So basically, any suggestions on how to improve the water quality for the fish? I was thinking of getting her one of those algae treatments to try clear the suspended green algae, (but would that kill the plants?) and seeing if she could remove some of the plants to clear space in the deeper area. I asked is there any chance of pond filters etc or even moving the fish elsewhere but as it is not her pond and not her fish she's not in a position to do something to it, but she was certain there is zero chance of them adding a filter, air pump or powerhead. It isn't really positioned anywhere near an electrical outlet either.

It was hard to see through the water but it doesn't look like there is any sediment on the bottom apart from detritus so would adding a gravel base help waste be broken down?

Thanks for any advice :)

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17 Jun 2010 20:38 #2 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
There's not much you can do if there's no filter. Algae treatments are very hit and miss and would only have a short term effect.

Anyway, algae won't really bother the fish, it's the build up of ammonia and nitrite that will cause them problems and you can't do much about that without a filter.

Regards,

Ken.

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17 Jun 2010 20:48 #3 by JohnH (John)
Replied by JohnH (John) on topic Re:Improving a pond
I don't think gravel would especially help as it would only create a trap for the detritus to settle into.
Sooner than remove plants I would actually suggest adding rooted potted plants (I would suggest Papyrus Reed or similar as it doesn't get as 'out of hand' as bigger reeds), these might help to absorb some of it.

Floating plants such as Water Lettuce and Water Hyacinth are good, but not always easily obtained.

Your friend's ploy of changing some water daily is a sound one but it would be better still if she removed water beforehand, replacing it with fresh - preferably from a hose, 'sprayed' onto the surface...this would help both in oxygenating the water but also in dispelling much of the chlorine in the tap water.

I hope this helps a little.

John
ps how are the Cacs?

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


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17 Jun 2010 21:42 #4 by dar (darren curry)
john quick question, is spraying water acceptable? i mean surely it will help slightly but is it satisfactory, could this be recommeded for all fish?

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17 Jun 2010 21:43 #5 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re:Improving a pond
Here are two links to a totally organic and tried and trusted method of algae removal, the first is the science behind it and the second is the commercial product.

www.irishscientist.ie/P67.htm

www.johnstowngardencentre.ie/algistraw--...rol/algistrawpd.aspx

I've used this and if you live in a rural area and have acces to organic barley straw you can float it in a nylon sock.


Kev.

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17 Jun 2010 21:54 #6 by JohnH (John)
Replied by JohnH (John) on topic Re:Improving a pond
darrencurry wrote:

john quick question, is spraying water acceptable? i mean surely it will help slightly but is it satisfactory, could this be recommeded for all fish?


Darren,
I've done this down the years with no ill-effects, it helps oxygenate the pond water and dispel much of the chlorine in the tap water (as suggested).

I'm saying this with reference to the small pond scenario.
In fact a lake I used to fish ad an oxygen depletion problem and the Fire Brigade set up two huge pumps spraying water across the surface and that saved the Fish stocks in there.

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


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17 Jun 2010 22:15 #7 by dar (darren curry)
cool cool, it's just i read a bit on it and got two options , 1 it removes chlorine so it's ok and 2 it doesn't remove or nutralize everything thats harmfull in tap water. i was thinking of spraying water in2 a water butt and leaving it for a day or two, that's the basis of my question, would this be ok?

p.s sorry to hijack the thread wit a question

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18 Jun 2010 00:00 #8 by JohnH (John)
Replied by JohnH (John) on topic Re:Improving a pond
A lot of people used to use that as a method of neutralising chlorine in the 'old' days, it gets dispelled by the power of the water and is emitted as gas.
The Water-Safe type stuff would be more effective, but you would have to use rather a lot for pond use.
If you spray it into a water barrel and let it stand for a day you should have rid it of chlorine, but there again if you merely let it stand that long the chlorine should have gone anyway. If you could aerate the water that would be even better, I'm assured.

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


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18 Jun 2010 09:02 #9 by Gerry The Chip (Gerard)
Yeah im finding my pond turnin a dark green every week now because of the sunlight, i change all of the water once a week and use an internal filter to help keep it clean and have an air stones going most of the day, can anyone suggest something else i can do to keep my water clearer for longer. Any treatments going that are good for this? Gerry

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19 Jun 2010 15:45 #10 by Penny (Aedh Byrne)
Thanks everyone :)

There is a hose in the garden for watering so i'm sure they could spray the water in. Will say to her about trying to put a few gallons down the drain each time she adds some as well.

Stretnik, so that's what was in the pond! I noticed a small handful sized net full of straw in the water but didn't know what it was for. Someone else must have been concerned about fishy as well. :lol: Maybe it just needs some fresh straw to clear it up a bit.

John, the cacs are doing great. :) They have picked a cave and are getting along with everyone and feeding really well. I'll have pics up very soon.

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19 Jun 2010 16:03 #11 by JohnH (John)
Replied by JohnH (John) on topic Re:Improving a pond
I'm pleased they settled in well.

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


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19 Jun 2010 16:34 #12 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re:Improving a pond
Hi Penny,

By Sue Speichert
Originally published in Water Gardening Magazine, March/April 1999 Reprinted with permission.
Aquarticles

As the story goes, one warm and sunny summer day, a bale of barley straw fell into a farmer's pond in Scotland. He wasn't particularly worried about the straw in the pond and simply left it there. Several weeks later, the farmer noticed that there was less string algae in the pond than usual. The farmer's haphazard discovery made its way to the Centre for Aquatic Plant Management in England. The Centre undertook studies to investigate whether the presence of barley straw in water could affect string algae and blue-green algae. The studies confirm that barley straw does, in fact, stop the growth of all forms of algae. According to the Centre's published findings, barley straw is a"cheap and environmentally acceptable way of controlling algae in water bodies ranging from garden ponds to large reservoirs, streams, rivers and lakes."

In a nutshell, barley straw works by releasing a chemical that inhibits the growth of algae. It doesn't actually destroy algae that's already growing in the pond. Instead, it stops the algae before it has a chance to get started.

Barley straw works it magic as it breaks down and decomposes in the pond. It's a gradual process that's very temperature dependent, accelerating as the water warms. Once the straw becomes effective, it continues to inhibit algae growth until the straw is almost completely decomposed. As a general rule, the straw lasts for about six months.

According to the Centre, the precise way in which barley straw stops algae growth is "not fully proven." The Centre believes that when the straw rots, lignins in the cell walls are released into the water. The lignins oxidize into humic acids and other humic substances. When combined with sunlight and dissolved oxygen, these humic substances convert to hydrogen peroxide. Low levels of hydrogen peroxide have been proven to inhibit algae growth. Peroxides only last a few minutes; you would need a constant flow of fresh hydrogen peroxide into your pond water in order to keep algae at bay. When there's decomposing barley straw in the water, the peroxides are continuously produced (given sufficient sunlight and oxygen), and so the algae continuously inhibited from growing.

It's not known why barley straw works better than other forms of straw to keep the pond free of algae. Yet studies have found that barley straw is significantly better at ridding the pond of string algae and blue green algae, forms that beneficial bacteria is unable to keep at bay.

Barley straw only works if it is put in the pond before the algae begins to grow. It will not remove algae that is already present. Once the algae appears, it has to be removed by other means for the barley straw to go to work. This means manual removal of the algae or the use of some type of algaecide. Once the algae has been removed, though, the barley straw will be able to keep the algae from returning.

When determining how much barley straw to use, the important consideration is your surface area of water, not your water volume. The Centre recommends, as a general rule, that pond owners use about .03 ounces of straw for every square yard of water surface. If you've always had a lot of string algae, then you can use more. Once the algae is under control, you can scale back as you gain more experience with barley straw's effectiveness in your pond.

The best way to use barley straw in a backyard pond is to bundle it in a loose bag or nylon stocking. You can attach a string with a weight to keep the bundle from floating all over the pond. Remember, though, that as the straw becomes wet and waterlogged, it will sink to the bottom of the pond. It's important to keep the straw near the surface, because that's where there is more oxygen and also where the straw will have its greatest effect. Attach a cork or a plastic soda bottle to the bundle to keep it afloat.

In large, natural bodies of water, whether ponds, lakes, or streams, the straw should be loosely bundled in onion or potato sacks. It's better to use several smaller bundles rather than one large sack. Place the bundles at intervals so that the most amount of water surface is exposed to the straw's useful effects. In lakes, reservoirs, and ponds, the bundles should be held in place with a weight and kept from sinking by use of a float device. For streams, the bundles can be held in place at the shore and let to float out into the water, again using a float device to keep the bundles from sinking to the bottom.

In a backyard pond, one or two bundles will probably be sufficient. If there is no moving water, the bundle should be positioned in the middle of the pond, so that the anti-algae chemicals are able to disburse outward in all directions. If there is a stream or waterfall, then the bundle should be placed nearby, to take advantage of the increased oxygen and the additional dispersion of anti-algae chemicals throughout the entire pond. A header pool is an ideal location for a bundle of barley straw in a backyard garden pond.

It's best to put the barley straw into the pond early in the spring, so that it will have a chance to break down somewhat before algae would appear. The warmer your climate, the sooner you should place the barley straw in the pond. In mild or cool climates, February or March would be optimal. As a very general rule, it will take up to a month for the straw to become effective. When the water temperature is 70 F or warmer, the straw may take only a month to spring into action. If the water is cooler than 60 F, it can take up to 8 to 10 weeks for the straw to go into effect. Don't put in fresh bundles of barley straw during periods of prolonged hot weather – decaying straw combined with dying algae may deplete the amount of oxygen in the water.

If you live in a warmer climate where algae can be a problem even in the fall and winter, it's wise to place a new bundle in the pond in the fall before the old batch has completely rotted away. This will allow the new straw to become effective by the time the old straw needs to be thrown out.

As a general rule, new straw should be added every six months. This is just an average, however, and it's best to keep a close watch on whether new algae appears to be taking hold in the pond. Don't wait until all the straw is gone to add a new bundle. Add the new one while the old bundle is still working, so that there is an overlap. That way, the new straw will already be activated in the pond once the old bale of straw should be removed.

You can use straw in combination with algicides, either applying them when the straw is already in the pond, or using the algicide first and then waiting a while before adding the straw. The sooner you put the barley straw into the pond, the sooner it will inhibit the algae's return.

The Centre's studies have found that barley straw has no an adverse effect on aquatic plants or wildlife. In some cases, submerged plants have been able to grow better once straw was applied, most likely because the absence of algae allows for greater penetration of sunlight and facilitates photosynthesis in the plants. Straw has had no adverse effect on invertebrates such as Water Shrimp (Gammarus spp.) which eat waste and debris. They have been found to grow well and rapidly in the protected environment of the straw. Many invertebrates are in fact a benefit to the pond, since they eat decomposing organic matter, and some eat algae. As the straw decomposes and the number of invertebrates increases, they float way from the safety of the straw bales and are consumed by fish or birds, enriching the food source of these larger pond-lovers. Their numbers also increase and health improves from the presence of the barley straw. Again this is likely because the lack of algae allows for an increase in plant life and small animal life in the pond, which is an important food source for the fish and birds.

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19 Jun 2010 17:19 #13 by dar (darren curry)
guys is meadow hay the same jazz as straw? if so penny i'm in tallaght and i have some if you want it, it's still in it's packaging

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19 Jun 2010 17:22 #14 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re:Improving a pond
No Darren, hay is from Grass, its the flowering stalk, straw is Barley's flowering stalk.

Kev.

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19 Jun 2010 17:30 #15 by dar (darren curry)
cheers Kev

well if any one has small pets and wants it, your free to have it

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