New Guy

Hi everyone,

My name is Matt, and this is my first post here. I just wanted to give a brief introduction. Don't know how active this board is, I only found out about it yesterday - but anyway.........

Big into keeping marines. Been keeping them ow since xmas '98...... so thats abotu 9 years..... had a good 10 years of freshwater before, of which a good 6 or 7 of them was large fish, Chiclids, and discus.

At the moment I'm between tanks - just finished having my house renovated - had a 6x2x2 tank for a couple of years (had various other tanks before that, including a 7 footer). Getting a new tank now built in - an 8x2x2. Not sure yet whether to go reef, FO or somewhere in between..... done all three in the past, but I'm a bit undecided this time around.... a nice big emperor or queen angel would be nice, along with afew nice triggers and wrasse etc..... but at the same time, a decent reef tank is hard to beat.

Anyway, thats my lot, what I'm doing in the hobby etc. By the way, I'm living in Co. Cork.

Just about to post in the "for sale" forum now...... I've got a 6x2x2 tank that needs to get shifted.

Regards,

Matt

So are there many marine fishkeepers south of Dublin? A friend of mine keeps marines also, has been in the game for about 5yrs I'd say - together with have a little "mini-society" in a manner of speaking...... sad isn't it!!! But he has a 5' tank, and a few nice fish too.

John - if I can offer any help to anyone, yourself included obviously, then do not hesitate to pm / post / email me. Sometimes its just that you need people to talk things over with, get opinions and ideas, for which I find these types of forums great...... I am so isolated here in Cork as far as the hobby goes.

Regards,

Matt

welcome matt,

there arent too many posts in this section which is a shame...but i suppose it needs time. im about 6 months into my first fish and invert system (240 litre) and loving it....so i suppose itll be you dishing out the advice!

i think the only members with marines are Fr.Jack, platty252, dave, conor and myself but theres prob a lot more.

good luck with your new tank,

fran

Hi Matt and welcome to the forum!

Since you are setting up a new tank and by the sounds of it covered all of your basis with experience to date, you have prompted me to ask a question!

Has anyone every kept native cold water marine species with a good degree of success? This is in a private tank not for an aquarium! It just seem to me that it is an underutilized resource, we are surrounded with sea water and the life in it and yet I have only ever read topics regarding the use of sea water for water changes.

I have read a small amount into what it would take it order to have a setup and the biggest added extra would be a chiller and that's about it! The below is a list of species that IMHO would make for a very impressive display (not all in the same tank at the one time). I have personally caught/poked/prodded all of the below species so obtaining them would not be a problem. This would also greatly reduce the cost in stocking a tank!!!

Let just imagine these species in a 8 x 2 x 2 tank. What would the major problems be? n.b. The larger fish on the list max out at about 1.5lbs

Fish

Gurnard - Grey (Eutrigla gurnardus)


Gurnard - Red (Aspitrigla cuculus)


Rockling Three Bearded (Gaidrosparus vulgaris)


Wrasse Cuckoo (Labrus mixtus)


butter fish


pipe fish


maybe a small species of flounder,soul,place for the bottom.



Inverts

Beadlet Anemone (Actinia equina)





Hermits


sea mouse


sea cucumber


top shells and barnacles


dog whelk



Plants

Carragheen moss (Chondrus crispus)


Dilisk (food for sea cumber and mouse)



or is the main problem that they just don't look as "pretty as tropical fish" and the missus wants pretty tropical fish or I not getting a tank?

The main reasons (in my view) that this remains an untapped resourse are:

1. As you rightly point out, they just aren't as nice looking. I mean even within the tropical marine hobby, why is it that everyone wants emporer angels, queen angels, majestic angels - yet no one wants the grey angels, french angels or koran angels - the latter are more hardy, easier to feed and less expensive after all........ I think the reason is obvious, they are simply less desireable.

2. This point follows on from the previous, since the demand for these animals is pretty non-existent, then availability of both the creatures in question, and the means to maintain them is strictly limited. I am not sure about salt mixes, but I believe they are specifically dsigned for use in tropical marine aquaria, and their make up (minerals, trace elements etc) would differ from cold water marines. Realsitically, who has the time to drive to a clean baech and fill several drums with sea water, or go collecting food or livestock?

3. These are cold water animals - even in out pathetic climate, it would get too warm in teh summer - and our homes in the winter are heated to near tropical temperatures - 20 to 25 degrees C. colwater marines would need temperature of half that....... so a big chiller would be needed to be run 24/7..... and expensive item to both buy and run.

4. I am guessing this, but I would suspect that our fish are far less companionalbe than tropical marine - if you have ever been diving in the tropics you will have seen how large numbers of fish commonly share sections of teh reef - that simply doesn't happen here. I would suspect that our fish would be much more territorial.


In my view, these are the main reasons that cold water marines are not a viable option - they are just not available enough, water temperature is too warm in our homes, and the resources required are simply not avaialbe eough - and they simply not are pretty enough to inspire anyone to make any changes to this situation.

Regards,

Matt

Another think is that most of our native species are migratory fish.
Even our Salmon and Trout are the same.
How could you mimic that in a 5 foot tank. Most would be tank busters anyway. I don`t think we have any species small enough to be kept in a tank.

PS.Cod and Whitning looks best Deep fried and battered and beside a plate full of chips.

Another think is that most of our native species are migratory fish.
Even our Salmon and Trout are the same.
How could you mimic that in a 5 foot tank. Most would be tank busters anyway. I don`t think we have any species small enough to be kept in a tank.

From my limited knowledge of our native marine species, it is MO that the majority are with us throughout the year. Some of the species move slightly off shore to avoid turbulent waters and the reduction in temperature. But I cant see this causing a problem, for instance. If you look at the amazon basin during the flood season the rivers swell for many miles either side of the river and the fish move out to feed from the main channels. But yet many people successfully keep these species from this area without mimicking such movements.

The migratory of species around Ireland are the pelagic species, these include mackerel, blue fin tuna, species of sharks etc. As for the other species that are around Ireland that move off in the winter these are the sub tropical species that cant tolerate the low temperature during winter. These include mullet, sea bass, john dory, bream, triggers, parrot fish etc. But since its getting warmer "thank you global warming" we are seeing more of these species overwintering with us.

As for the size issue, we have a large variety of species that would not grow over ten inches and these are some of the more colourful as they are usually the bottom of the food chain and they often use these marking to confuse predators.

But I have to agree with you. Cod does look great in its golden batter overcoat!

Yes I agree native marine are an untapped resourse, back in 1991, the original "national aquarium" was built by Micheal and Gerald Connolly and my self Sean Connolly, I am glad to say I am in no way related to them, and a lot of people ares stilled owed money even to this day, it was a bit of a white elefeant and finally taken over by a professional company call sea life that know how to do things the right way.

A lot of the tropical fish tanks I did not agree with it was just too many small fresh water tanks, and people got bored looking at rosy barb then tiger barbs, and their electric bill was enormous. (till the ESB cut if off!)

The only thing they done right was stumble on the idea of taking wrasses form the west coast of Ireland, they were more colourful than any of the tropical fresh water tanks and even the tropical marines, the reason for this is very simple the east coast of Ireland has cold meeky water and there lives cold ugly fish, the west coast has the "sub tropical gulf stream" there are beaches in the west coast that ever has coral sand although admittedly abit course its still coral sand, the fish particularly the wrasses that are all between 2 inch and 4 inch are amazing, they can even take Irish Winters/Summers what the difference I cam over from Majorca last August, and could not believe pople were in tee shirts when I had a shirt jumper and coat on.

Inverts as long as you get the inverts from very shallow water they are heat tolerate to and the live rock look great.(west coast)

Thumbs up for native marines provided you can snorek to 2 metres and you have a wet suit or even ski suit and are prepared to drive to the west coast. THe only thing worth taling from the east coast is run anet through the freshwater looking lake in blackrock park south Dublin, its full of shrimps that life on the bottom they are about 3 cm long, beleive me its a salt watre lake with a confrete bottom and its teaming with them. With my commercial pruduction brine shrimp procction I had going plus harverting these critters as live food to all of the shops in Dublin back in 1992/93 it paid for my bear money, if you get stpped by some one in the park just say you are doing a study into ther polution in this pond. Dont put more than 40 shrimp in a bucket or they will start to change from their clear colour to a white one (sign of not getting enough oxygen)