My Ex Reef Tank

[img][img]http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p18/russellie/marine.jpg[/img]
Just thought I would show you my Marine Reef set up.
This was before I reverted back to Discus[/img]

Russell,

You continue to surprise. This was a magnificant looking setup. Don't know how you brought yourself to dismantle it.

I am toying with setting up a reef system but not until we get the planned (in the sense of yes we will, but not that planned....) extension done as it would be tank #4. Happy with my main setup of Discus at the moment though.

Monty

Hey Russell

Great looking tank! Quick question: I have read in a number of articles around the net that yellow tangs (I think that's a yellow tangs in the right of your picture) are not to be kept with corals, polyps and other types of inverts as they are considered to be grazers of such species. Is this true and if so how did you keep yours from eating its way through your live stock?

Don't you believe it Tangs do not eat corals or Polyp's[/
I had over 1000 euro's worth of corals & Live rock. and abot 500 in fish

I stand corrected! Thanks for clearing that up!

Tp those toying or even thinking about a reef or marine set up. Think carefuly!!! You need extreemly deep pockets not to mention time.

thats one stunning reef mate.i recognise some of the corals from previous diving trips,particularly the one top left and the one on top right,a sort of funnel shape.must have been real hard breaking it down.

The one on the left is the Fiji Elegans a beautiful yellow. hard to keep took a year to establish but produced 3 heads which were sold on. The one on the right is a Sarcophyton and grew to 2 feet across.

I think the most difficult element of changing from fresh water to reef is getting your head around stocking density.

For someone like me that had discus, and large chiclids etc, it was a bit of a culture shock to go from have several large (8-12") fish in a 7 tank, to having half a dozen fish, half the size. So, I did what most folks do, and I crammed the tank FULL of fish - I now know that I was way over stocked, but at the time, comparing the marine fish load to the freshwater fish load it appeared to my eyes that it was understocked. So I sturggled, and I tried to cut corners, and I tried to improvise and make DIY equipment - but no matter what, I just could not get nitrates down. I then got so hung up on nitrate management, reading about guys with zero nitrate levels, that I lost sight of the fact that the tank was in fact doing perfectly ok.

As far as cost goes - well setting up a marine tank is certainly costly, but it needn't be senseless. If you are comparing a Discus tank with a reef tank for example, then you really aren't comparing like for like - it is infintely more complex in terms of husbandry, equipment, requirements etc. But to me, comparing a discus tank to reef is like comparing a 'top-of the-line' motor bike and a 'top of the line' car - both are at the pinacle of the respective fields, and both are modes of transport (but so are buses)but what is there to compare?

My point is this - it is perfectly acceptable (and might even be a better idea) to set up a respectible sized marine tank, without matel hallide lighting, without closed loop circ systems, withotu live rock and live sand and all that equipement that folks outside the marine hobby think they must have. If you set up a 48"x18"x18" tank for example, stick in a couple of bags of ocean rock, a dusting of sand, get an overflow box and a small sump, a modest skimmer and a DIY trickle filter, or a canister filled with siporax - maybe even grow a little culerpa in the sump, and stick a two florescent tubes (one white one blue moon) over it, then you have the makings of a great starter marine tank. In that you could get some nice hardy marine fish, that don't have to cost the earth - I would suggest a couple of gobies (30 quid each), a yellow tang and coral beauty (50 quid each) a nice hawkfish (50 quid maybe) a nice wrasse (again 50 quid) and then a couple of other smll guys like a blenny, or gramma etc. You can add shrimps and snails, star fish etc, you could try a few feather dusters - all in I would be surprised it you ran into 500 quid stocking it....... a discus tank would easily run to that if ou put in a half dozen or so decent discus, along with cory's and clown loach etc......... and I can tell you that it will be alot less hassle and time consuming too.

Now you are comparing like-for-like. Now you are comparing family saloon's with hatchbacks. But by setting up the tank this way you have bought the toyota - a good reliable, middle of the range, ticks all the boxes type vehicle, with good resale potential. If you want to go further, and delve into reef keeping, then you can make some adjustments - change to T5 lighting, buy a box of live rock, do away with the canister, and your set. Your fish are already reef safe for the most part. Its all stepped really - just that as with everything in our 'must have' commercially driven society we see a picture of a reef tank and want to go from the motorbike straight to the S'class Mercedes. My advice to anyone thinking about changing over is to do it in steps (unless money is not an object).

In my opinion, the fish only set up I have outlined above is more colourful, more interesting, more active and less hassle than a discuss set up. It is not outragously expensive either. Comparing like for like, it is my exerience that marine fish have so much more charater than freshwater. In this case, less is more, and I would prefer a lightly stocked marine FO tank than a heavily stocked freshwater tank, any day.

The key to a hassle free, not-too-expensive marine system is a bit of careful planning, and sensible (read as very low compared to freshwater) stocking levels. If anyone wants to discuss this further...... feel free

Please don't read this post and think I'm suggesting marine's are "better". They are not. They are just different, and they bring with them different challenges and different rewards. For example there is no real "breeding" opertunities, not unless you really specialise. You gotta mix the water change water, which is a nuisance. Hardly no one keeps them, so like me you have to travel to get them, and if things go wrong you have to travel to bring them back.........

Regards,

Matt

Hi Matt
As you may/ not have noticed I have kept Marines since the Late 50's,
Each to there own and also run Discus tanks alongside also cultivated Corals and bred Discus.
Are we talking F.O tanks or Reef tanks. A BIG Difference
I agree F.O tanks are a lot simpler & easier. You don't need Metal halides a big expense ,nor do you need a Calcium reactor - Kalwasser. and high turnover rate usaly Tunze another expense..
I am talking REEF SYSTEMS. a big big difference.

IMy point is this - it is perfectly acceptable (and might even be a better idea) to set up a respectible sized marine tank, without matel hallide lighting, without closed loop circ systems, withotu live rock and live sand and all that equipement that folks outside the marine hobby think they must have. If you set up a 48"x18"x18" tank for example, stick in a couple of bags of ocean rock, a dusting of sand, get an overflow box and a small sump, a modest skimmer and a DIY trickle filter, But by setting up the tank this way you have bought the toyota - a good reliable, middle of the range, ticks all the boxes type vehicle, with good resale potential.
Regards,

Matt

Excellent post, in fact the best so far this month, a lot of bull has been written in the past put this is not one of them, when you got your ipod and ipod dock, you have completed your training and on your road the the dark side of the force, glad to see there is one more person on my wavelength, I dont agree with the blue peter Prurse Thrower Gardener approach to aquatics, your points are all in paragraph without the one liners and 2 dozen smiles post, the admin should uprade you from a gubby to the Oscar!!!

Keep up the good work.

The only thing is the Toyota reliability post have my copy right

I'm suggesting marine's are "better". They are not. They are just different, and they bring with them different challenges and different rewards. For example there is no real "breeding" opertunities, Hardly no one keeps them, so like me you have to travel to get them, and if things go wrong you have to travel to bring them back.........

Regards,

Matt

I never in the 2 years keeping Discus was able to breed them. Marines are dead easy. My first pair of clowns were the first to breed in the south of Ireland in the mid eighties.

Qes. What does water changes mean? I understand the concept of filling up the tanks so they have something to swimming, but changing the water what does that mean (marines)

Clown fish will breed with out an anemone. After a couple of years inverts shrink as need to be replace...to much hassle..plus the invert need water changes to... hassle hassle hassle, less drinking time with all the husbandry.

To summarise fish only marine system is easier (if given the right advise) than discus. Discus have a nice shape and form, but their colours are so dame ugly. you can get marine wrasse of the west cost that look better than a discus, and a rainbow trout in breeding season has also got more colour than them, the only thing they have go going for them is they have nice red eyes, discus are kept in spartan tanks so they dont hide, discus keeping is a geeky hobby, also marine inverts to as its also hassle.

African chiclids or a fish only marine tank (not butterflies) are as clever as convient hobby/display system.

I agree entirely with the point you made. use the K.I.S.S. aproach for Fish only. they are simpler and easy to maintain.
What I CHOSE to do was to replicate a miniture reef and knew the expense and time this would take.
Not for one minute did I regret it. my main intention was to raise some of the harder to cultivate Corals. Which I did taking cuttings and passed them on to others.
The simpler the system the easier it is to maintain, I studied and attended colledge to try and get a Phd in Marine biology. almost succeded but other unforseen circumstances curtailed the final months.
I have also visited the Great Barrier Reef and studied the diversity of Marine life. and also the damage Mankind has imposed.
I always advise on caution when people say I am thinking about setting up this and that.
My advise has always been read & read and when you think you know it all read it once again.
I hope you didn't take offence at what I said previosly.

Just noticed what I think may have mislead you.
I spent 500 euro's for rare fish stock Not 500 fish.
.

Russel,

I dont want to escalate this to an argument, but I think the marine invert system in the above photo is/was? very professional, I would be very proud if I had that tank, the only thing wrong is the reflection on the glass of the photo, the tanks is top notch, obviously your 95% of full training as a marine biologist has help you compete such as impressive set up.

My concern is the discus set up, the washing machine filter thing is so out of date without wet dry bio capabitily, If I had one of those things I would avoid posting it, how can the same person paint a Picasso and dismantle it and then paint a lessor thing?

I am so so so sorry I can nt word it better than that, if I could I would.

Hey guys,

Yeah, I'd just like to see a few more people get into marines. There is such a myth that they are difficult to keep. As per my previous, I am not talking about reef tanks - they are an entirely different animal..... but when it comes to FO, I see no reason why anyone with half an ounce of cop on could not try them.

I for one think it is unfortunate that the marine hobby seems to be decoming more and more "reef" orientated. Every magazine you pick up, every article you read is all reef reef reef....... every "beginers guide to....." seems to be recommending live rock as though it were the only option. Yes, I happen to agree it is the best way to go, that is how my 8' tank will go, but for someone about to get into the hobby they are more or less being told by all the current literature that they "must" have a reef tank, and that they'll need a skimmer, and 6-8 tubes of MH, they'll need 1-2lbs of LR per gallon, they need 4" of sand, they should test every immaginable water parameter, only use RO water and a refugium is a must...... again, I agree, if money is not an issue then that is the best way to gaurantee sucess.....but the reality is that most people have a wife to please, and plonking 3 grand down on a 4' tank is difficult to justify when you've been sitting on the same couch for 5 or 6 years, that you got from the mother in law in the first place.

My new 8' tank is being set up as a FOWLR. Once established etc, and in about 12 motnhs time when my credit card has recovered, I'll start adding corals.

I just think that if folks start out on the right track, get the right equipment from day 1, then their tank can grow to suit their pocket or interest. But alot of people who read say PFK think that changing from fresh water to marine is a very costly prospect........ they think that without all the above mentioned gear that really they are just wasting their time........ and really all you need is a skimmer, a sump, a decentreturn pump and some form of "removable" filter. I think if people realised this that we would see a bigger interest in the hobby, especially in Ireland where folks are far less inclined to lay out serious cash on things like fishkeeping.....

Last year I spoke with a fresh water fish dealer in cork, and mentioned I had marines.... his response was that "people simply aren't willing to lay down a couple of grand for a tank to keep a 'nemo' and the 'nemo' would cost then another 100 and it would probably die anyway coz they're really sensitive".......... and with what fols are reading about in PFK and the like you cannot blame that mentality...... I mean a few years back I can remeber an author in PFK writing that a 4x2x2 tank was required for an emporer angel...... the same guy is now saying it should be an 8x2x2 and should ideally be in a reef type setting............

Nice chatting guys.


Matt

Sorry about the reflection Jack but the fish room is open to all day sun Perhaps if I had put a polarising filter on it would have cut it out,
At least th turbulence is in the sump Not the tank. and it does have a settlement area where it calms down.
Can't please eveyone, only myself.

That is one stunning tank. :wink:
Is that the tank for sale? I would buy it tomorrow but the wedding budget has gone through the roof and I am feeling the pinch.

I'm selling a 6x2x2 tank - see the "for sale" forum...... going very cheap.

Sorry for the shameless plug in this post.

Matt

Hey guys,
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Yeah, I'd just like to see a probably die anyway coz they're really sensitive".......... and with what fols are reading about in PFK and the like you cannot blame that mentality...... I mean a few years back I can remeber an author in PFK writing that a 4x2x2 tank was required for an emporer angel...... the same guy is now saying it should be an 8x2x2 and should ideally be in a reef type setting............

Nice chatting guys.


Matt

Another excellent post I think I will have to retire from the marine forum, one good post after another, who needs to police the marine forum any more when one has disciples like Matt spreading accurate non bull marine post?

Holger (apistodiscus) wanted to set up a club in Cork a couple of months ago, may be in the forum alone there is enough to do it :?:

Promises Promises

wheres the picture gone to

i would love to see what ur all talking about

when i started to keep fish i was led to beleive by the lfs guy that i needed a skimmer,an ro unit,2 MH lights,a ca reactor loads of boxes of salt a huge tank and loads of the books he was selling, if this is everyones experiance its no wonder theres not as many people who are willing to take a chance on marines

i never really liked any sort of fresh water fish, most of them seem draap and color less to me, i gave them a try but got bored with them after a few months, so i just got rid of the big fresh tank i had and focused more on my salt water tank, for the first few months i stuck to fish and gradually got some corals,, i was actually building up the live rock as i went so i didnt spend a fortune initially,

i have a couple of fish and a load of soft corals, a few snails and crabs and a star fish

this hobby doesnt have to cost a bomb, and dont listen to anyone who tells u it will, theres different ways to skin a cat;)<br><br>Post edited by: buleetu, at: 2007/07/12 19:07