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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Re: Article on fish transportation

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14 Aug 2013 04:46 #1 by Gonefishy (Brian oneill)
www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/13/shippi...hotos_n_3748727.html

Reduced water = reduced shipping cost = greater profit

Just increase selling price! I would certainly pay a few quid more than have fish put through this. I know it's stressed in the article that its typically 1/3 water, 2/3 air but the pics just scream cruelty to me. Maybe fish do not 'scientifically' 'feel' pain but I doubt it as they are 'clever' enough to stay away from predators, hide when hurt etc...

I hate seeing articles like this as I don't like the idea of supporting this type of thing, indirectly through the actual keeping of fish (which all of us on here love doing)...

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14 Aug 2013 08:42 #2 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
Fish transportation methods are a concern to me and always have been.

The unfortunate thing about that article is that it is written without an appropriate knowledge of the fish it is reporting upon. That makes a double evil and doesn't really do much to address the real issues.

As for leaving a hybrid and long-time selectively bred fish such as those shown "in the wild" is a bit of silly statement if that report wishes to place credibility on the reporter.

Maybe it should have focused on inappropriate shipping 50 Corydoras in a small bag instead.....that is where I have issues with maximising profits at the expense of fish welfare.

There are multiple parties to blame here.....suppliers, retailers and customers who are looking for cheap fish.

In our role of customer, our demands for fish should also place an ethical question in our head of how many fish can we accept as "transport losses" in order to secure our 6 or so for our tanks?

ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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14 Aug 2013 08:50 - 14 Aug 2013 08:51 #3 by JohnH (John)
The video was 'down' when I just tried to look at it but I've seen how Bettas are received in Ireland and, while it isn't pleasant to see, very few arrive dead. My own personal view here is that what is often worse is when these arrive at their retail destination I have seen them kept like this, sometimes for days at a time, they really should be released as quickly as is possible
I fear we are partly to blame for this shipping method - we all want to pay as little as possible for our fish and transport costs are a very large part of the final selling price. Importers - so inevitably Shops - have to pay shipping costs, which are ultimately passed on to us, the customers.
That's not to say I agree with the transportation methods, or condone them (indeed I am totally opposed to them), I'm just trying to show the reason why they are shipped in this manner.
But...even if each and every fish keeper agreed to pay more for our fish to stop this practice these methods would prevail and the 'extra' price we agreed to pay would just be swallowed up in profit for either the importers or retailers!
(Just trying to get a conversation going - thanks GF for bringing the article to our attention).
John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.
Last edit: 14 Aug 2013 08:51 by JohnH (John). Reason: Spelling - again!!!

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14 Aug 2013 09:51 #4 by davey_c (dave clarke)
I remember the last time I helped a friend acclimatise an order, this particular order missed its scheduled mode of transport so were reoxygenated before it caught the next 1... but anyways this was a large order for large fish store and most fish arrived in small bags like that including affrican cichlids. Unfortunately though only half the consignment arrived alive and a fair few had dried up.... realy I did feel disturbed over how they were shipped but know myself it wasn't the shops fault.
I do try not to dwell on it because at times I don't think the lfs share much of a thought for what they sell tbh considering how some are kept.. then there's the fish that end up as shop pets because they won't sell!!
Then there are our breeding projects... must be a very sad igsistance to be trapped in a bare aqauarium ye we all have them!!
I try not to get all moral and ethical about it but when I do I often think maybe its the lucky ones that perish :evil:

Below tank is for sale

my plywood tank build.

www.irishfishkeepers.com/index.php/forum...k-build-diary#137768

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14 Aug 2013 10:12 #5 by Melander (Andreas Melander)
Interesting topic,
I agree with most of the above, like Ian suggested it might have been a good idea to have used another example like wild Corys or maybe Otos, it might have been more graphic.

I think the root of the problem lies in that fish are generally considered to be lower standing than other animals. We as keepers are allowed to treat our animals far worse than keepers of cuddlier pets like dogs and cats and the same probably stand for the regulations on animal transports. I have very rarely heard of anyone being prosecuted for mistreating fish for instance.

What John suggests also makes sense, that a higher price eventually will be absorbed by a higher profit. My suspicion is that the regulation on this is underdeveloped and that this is where a change would be possible.

Andreas

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14 Aug 2013 11:28 #6 by JohnH (John)
I have to agree Andreas, likewise with Davey's point that "I often think maybe its the lucky ones that perish".

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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