Discoloured sand

Probably nothing but just curious...
I have sand as the bed in my tank and I have noticed that some patches have become darker. Now I presume it is just poo etc. that has changed it but in case it were anything to worry about is this normal and should I just ignore it.

Thanks in advance.

Hi Processor,

I wouldn't ignore it although it may not be anything too serious

I take it that this is the tank you have that has recently finished cycling..

Do you clean your substrate with a gravel vacuum or similar ? (since I've never used sand I don't know if the vac would suck it up. Hopefully someone else can shed some light on this or provide a different method)

It may be a patch of localised algae growth on the sand. I had something similiar when cycling recently.

Have a closer look and report back on the colour. Understanding you water readings may help - do you know what they are ?

In any case, even if it is 'poo' you should vac the substrate as part of your water changes.

Monty

Thanks for the reply Monty,

Yes it is the same (and only) tank I was on about before.
As for the colour well the normal sand looks light beige...well sandy looking...sorry I'm not great on colours.....anyway the tainted sand looks the same as wet sand if you know what I mean.
The entire forum is now falling about the place laughing their heads off.
OK what I mean is if the tank were empty of water and I wet some patches of sand it would look darker..... hope you know what I mean !
When doing my water changes I use a length of hose with some mesh at the end to syphon out the water and droppings but also some of the darker sand but it doesn't seem to be going away.

Oh and to cap it all my ammonia levels have gone through the roof (0.0 > 1.0)since Wednesday so I am changing every day sometimes twice.

Time for a confession now : I did get 4 small (1.5 inch)angels on Tuesday.I know it was probably too early but being a begginner and having zero levels for over a week I figured I was ok so I went ahead. One died last night.
Ya I know I probably shouldn't have yet but ........ .
This sand thing has been going on for quite a while and not just since the introduction of the angels.

Thanks
Processor (feeling foolish).

Depending on the type of sand you used, blackened or darkened areas on the substrate are generally a sign of anerobic spots, which if left for prolonged periods, can release toxins into the water.

Raking it with a fork or equivanlant every week, usually sorts it, although some bottom dwellers IE corydora sp or botia sp can help also.

Hi Processor,

Understand your pain. One of the most difficult things in this hobby is the patience needed. We start looking at empty or sparce tanks for weeks on an end and have difficulty not leaving the LFS with something.

Suggest that you do what Dave suggest and rake the sand on a regular basis and keep it clean. I've just looked up on the anerobic spots he mentioned and they can be nasty - releasing toxins and leaving you wondering what has gone wrong...

Now for the Ammonia - adding fish will increase the level of ammonia in the tank and the necessary bacteria need to catch up to change it to nitrite and then onto nitrate. You can have the mini-cycle.
However adding 4 small angels into a 240 litre shouldn't be a huge problem unless you are overstocked or overfeeding.

I'm guessing, since you have a 240 litre tank thats it's a Rio 240 with an internal Juwel filter - even if I'm wrong I'd add a second external filter if I were you. It will be worth it in the long run and makes the cleaning easier as you just tackle one at a time, happy in the thought that the other is working away.

Monty

Thanks for the reply Monty.

Correct and right about the Rio 240.
A second filter sounds like a good idea alright, I think I'll have that sorted out by the weekend. Perhaps this might also help the water a bit quicker.

As for the sand I have been removing the dark patches by syphon when doing the water changes and it seems to be gone but obviously I know it could come back so I am keeping a watchfull eye.

Don't think I am overstocked as you know its a Rio 240 and I have :-
5 Dannio
6 Tetra
4 Neon
4 Angels
2 Rainbow
1 Albino Corydoras
1 Pleco - 4 inch

All small fish with the exception of the Pleco...who by the way has turned very pale/white from the tail to about 1/5th up his body ???

It just gets better doesn't it.

Anyway off to work on a 2nd filter and will keep you posted.
Many thanks again for your input I do appreciate it.

Processor.

Another idea is to get some fish that move the sand around a little bit... maybe some loaches :wink:

Processor,

You're not overstocked for your 240 but I'd be concerned about the pleco. You had better start and provide all of your current water parameters and temp.

I hope you are feeding the pleco with some sinking wafers or such. Some cucumber form time to time goes down well too. Don't rely on him living on algae in the tank. - Has his stomach become sunken ? I've seen my lighten or darken based on what he is lying on but never become pale in a section.

As an aside - In your fish list you mention 4 Neons - anything I've read on them indicates that you should keep at least 6 of them. You mention 6 Tetra - what type of tetra are these (note the Neon is a tetra too) and finally on the rainbows - are they Neon Dwarf Rainbows ?

If you are still looking for the second filter I'd recommend the Tetra EX.

Finially, if you are thinking about getting some loaches - I love clown loaches and think they are great fun characters. I have 5 and they all 'dance' up front against the glass when it is close to feeding time.

Monty

OK firstly and sadly the Pleco died. I had been feeding him with algae wafers which the catfish and 2 rainbows also enjoyed.He had a greenish colour on his stomach something I had not seen until I removed his body from the tank.

Present parameters :
Ammonia 0.25 ( from 1.0)
Nitrite 0.25 (from 0.50)
Nitrate 5.0
Ph 7.5 (rock steady since day 1)
Temp. 24 degrees (steady)

My water supply reads zero for Ammonia and Nitrite and also has a Ph of 7.5.
I am still changing 10% to 20% every day and adding 30ml Stress Coat and likewise of Stress Zyme. Refill water is preheated with spare heater to same temp as tank.Sometimes I have to add straight from the mains but this only reduces temp by 1 degree max as it is usually only about 10 litres or so.

I will get 2 more Neons. Have been meaning to anyway bit will now.
As for the Rainbows mentioned they are actually Red Fin Sharks.....sorry for misleading.
As for the Tetras mentioned they are Black Phantom Tetra.

Accept your advice on the Tetra Ex will have a look for that in Drogheda or Blessington on Monday as my LFS (assuming this is Local Fish Shop)is not really into fish judging by the stock and conditions there.

I'd love to get Clown Loaches but shouldn't I still wait for parameters to improve ?

Should I have readings for general hardness etc. though I know the water is hard.

Thanks for the encouragement and advice,
Processor.

Add no fish until you you get the ammonia and the nitrite down to 0 and holding. What we need to understand is why they are not down to 0 as they had been before - right ?. Possible reasons

- forgot to dechlorinate when doing a water change? Chlorine will kill the bacteria built up and put you back to square 1.

- overstocking (not the case but maybe too quick in adding extra dish - such is life and lets move on)

- overfeeding - the decaying uneaten food will create ammonia which in turn needs to be turned to nitrite and then onto nitrate. Suggest you stop feeding for a couple of days.Your fish will be OK if they have been feeding up to this point.

- decaying plants - is this a possibility ?

- dead fish - decay -> ammonia etc. Have you accounted for all your fish.If not then search for the bodies.

As part of the cycle the ammonia will drop to 0 first and followed later by the nitrite (and an increase in nitrates). Continue to do what you are doing in terms of water changes, although I don't know if stress zyme is needed each time. I only ever put it in on day one. - You are mixing the stress coat with the water prior to putting into the tank - right ? Sorry sounds like a silly question but I just need to check.

Have you been cleaning your filter when doing changes - if yes then stop. You need to allow for the necessary bacteria to multiply.

Have a look at this - it explains the cycle and "How to save the day (and the fish) with an un-cycled aquarium"

www.fishforever.co.uk/cycling.html

Finally - stick in there. You'll get through this and once things have settled down you'll have a lot less work and much more enjoyment.

BTW Aquatic village have the tetra ex - it's where I got mine.

Monty

OK update :

Ammonia has now gone to zero.
All others same as above .... on the right track so.

As for what happened ?
My 'change' water stands overnight in a large bin with the spare heater in it. Stress Coat is then added to the tank (not the bin)once the change has been made. Think I know what you are going to say.
I understood the Stress Coat would sort out the Chlorine.

Not confident I can rule overfeeding out. Must dicipline myself to one pinch(2 minutes of feeding) every 2nd day...would you agree ?

All fish are accounted for (dead or alive)each day so no decaying bodies.

Only have plastic plants.

I did however find an algae wafer stuck under the filter and this could have been there for a couple of weeks or so but would this be a contributor ?

Heading for Aquatic Village today for the external filter .

Can you get Stress Coat for the aquarist there ???

Ever patient....ya right.
Processor.

Ammonia 0 - good. Now lets wait for the Nitrites. They may take a little longer to do down to 0 as the bacteria here multiply slower.

MOST IMPORTANT :!: - You guessed it ...... You must add the stress coat to the bin prior to adding the water to the tank. If you add the water to the tank and then add the stress coat you are adding water with Chlorine in it to the tank and it can kill the bacteria and fish, even if the time between adding the water and then adding the stress coat to the tank is small you are causing a problem.

When cleaning filters etc, use water from the tank to do so (when doing a water change use the water you have taken out). If you don't then you risk killing the bacteria in the filters etc.

Rule of thumb - under no circumstance should water which has not had the chlorine remove be allowed near the tank or equipment.

Feeding - I feed daily myself but you do need discipline to ensure that all food is eaten. Uneaten food after a few minutes should be removed.

Algae wafer may have been a contributor but probably not the main cause.

You can get everything you need in aquatic village.

Monty

External filter from Aquatic village (cool place) fitted and running as of 10 mins ago.
Looking forward to getting nice fishys in a couple of weeks.

This lark is dead easy don't you think ???

Many many thanks Monty I was despairing to say the least.

Yours etc.,
Enthusiastic Processor.

I'm delighted to see you call yourself 'Enthusiastic Processor', at least your difficulties have not gotton you down.

You will find a huge difference with the external too.I never looked back. It will take some time to build up bacteria etc. I wouldn't even bother thinking about cleaning it for a number of weeks at least.

At the moment just keep checking the water for ammonia and nitrite until you get these down to 0. (Continue to monitor the ammonia - just in case ) Your water changes will help stop these from getting too high. Remember, mix the stress coat with the water in the bin, prior to putting into the tank.

All going well soon you can drop down to a weekly water change of 20-25%. In fact the water changes in a cycled tank are to control the nitrate levels - although they do give us the opportunity to clean the substrate of any nasty 'crap' that has built up

Please let us know how you get on over the coming week or 2

Monty

Ammonia zero
Nitrite zero
Fish happy
Processor very happy.
Many thanks.

I'm delighted for you. I'd leave it a couple of weeks before putting any more fish in and now start keeping an eye on the nitrates. Good idea to check the nitrates in your tap water for comparision to the tank so you can see how much they are going up so you can get a better idea of the amount of water you need to change.

Best of luck

Monty