sponge filters in an african cichlid tank

i'm thinking of getting a corner tank at some stage in the next few months and setting it up for African cichlids; probably just a dozen or so yellow labs in it. i'd really like to filter it using two good-sized, air-powered sponge filters and a good pump, probably an eheim 400. what I want to know is will that be enough? I know their strength is biological filtration rather than mechanical but does anyone think this would be a problem? the tank will probably be close to 150litres and, of course, i'll be doing water changes weekly if not more.

opinions please...

That would work fine and 2 sponge filters would be best I think. I wouldn't underestimate the efficency of sponge filters because they are quite good at what they do. I get mine on ebay and there are a good variety of sizes on it too

davey_c wrote:

That would work fine and 2 sponge filters would be best I think. I wouldn't underestimate the efficency of sponge filters because they are quite good at what they do. I get mine on ebay and there are a good variety of sizes on it too

What size air pump would you want to run one for 100L and a 190L tank i been thinking of getting one.
can you give us a ebay link i think i will get one or two.

Air-powered sponge filters can be great: biologioal and mechanical filtration.
I use air-powered sponge filters with most of my African cichlids as the peat doesn't clog them as much as you get with power-filters.

Just as a note, my personal favourite for Malawi's and Tanganyikans is actually undergravel filters....yep them old fashioned things (they are also my favourite for Marines as well, but no longer use them).

ian

mention undergravel filters to most people these days and they'll tell you how their gran' pappy used to use them back in the day

LemonJelly wrote:

mention undergravel filters to most people these days and they'll tell you how their gran' pappy used to use them back in the day

Them people would probably be the ones who don't know much about filtration then. (ooooh...yes I said that ....we need some debate on the forum again).

The problem with U/G filters is simply their looking after and quick work if they go wrong.
Very awkward to clean (a major tank overall), and becoming more and more difficult to find suitable sheets (I have not seen Rena stuff around for years). If the filtration system dies then the keeping needs to act fast.
But when it comes to efficiency and other added benefits that you'll find hard to beat in most other filters...U/G is very near the top.

ian

I dunno... what you're saying sounds a lot like "I love this car, so comfortable and sooo safe... unless it bursts into flames when you turn the ignition and then it's the death-trap to end all death-traps!"

My first tank had undergravel filtration and although I didn't know anything about it at the time that tank still ran for about 3 years without a problem. That wasn't too long ago either
Still though for convenience I'd stick with a sponge filter. The ones I get are the ones with the weighted base instead of the suction cup ones.

LemonJelly wrote:

I dunno... what you're saying sounds a lot like "I love this car, so comfortable and sooo safe... unless it bursts into flames when you turn the ignition and then it's the death-trap to end all death-traps!"

Not at all.....in fact, you are more likely to have a disaster with a nice big external power filter. It could power down for a few hours and then power-up again and churn toxic material into the tank in a big way.

The analogy of having a U/G filter system collapse would be more akin to driving the comfy car totally drunk and not taking any notice of the fact that your brake pads wore out 2 months ago.
It would have to have a long run-in of neglect and just letting the air-pumps wane in power. But some people did allow that to happen without having a mature tank.

I ran the complete Marine section at a public aquarium using U/G filters driven by air-pumps.
My first successful spawning and raising of marines in around 1975 was in a system with a U/G filter bed of around 12 inches depth (or there abouts) using reverse flow air-driven filters. That filter bed stayed undisturbed for nearly 7 years until I got bored of marines. Perfection.

Also, you are less likely to have a tank mature using a nice big external filter unless it is also powering a big filter bed.

Now, going back to our internal air-driven sponge filters: not only are they one of the best systems for raising fry on the basis of low-water churning, but the sponge is an excellent source of food (small organisms) for young fry to graze on. A number of species of African cichlid do not do well unless they get that "scum" to eat (if you look at Kribs or Nanochromis raised in "sterile" conditions.....they are crap adults).

Double whammy for air-driven filters.

ian

Touché. I have to say though that although all filters have their particular downsides, I think the big one for U/G is the lack of flexibility of use. Great for the kind of long-term consistent use you've highlighted (which is why so many LFS used them before everyone changed over to sponges) but for someone who wants African cichlids this year but apistogrammas next year, they're maybe not ideal. Still going with the sponges though!

although air powered sponge filters would be fine for a group of smallish, young malawis. As they grow it would be advisable to add an internal power filter to maximise the filtration with mechanical and biological filters working together to keep a healthy environment for these fast growing active fish.
ps
I agree with Ian that undergravel filters were very effective but they would not be popular with todays fishkeepers as they are quite noisy and when they fail they fail big.

Ye know sponge filters can also be powered by an external filter inlet and thus acting as a prefilter? I would say though that whether you will need to expand your filtration would also depend on maintenance being done... if its a breeding project then maintenance will be done regularly so mightn't be much need but if its not a breeding tank should you not get a dual filter from the start?

Another option would be a powerhead(s) with a sponge and you will get a bit of flow as well as the benefits of a sponge, just a thought.



Melander

I've heard about the powerhead option before but as far as I know, the speed at which the pump would pull the water reduces its biological effectiveness (though increases the mechanical), which is one of the strengths of the sponge filter

I have heard the same and I think it makes sence.

This is why in large, 100l+ tanks I use both, an air driven sponge that gets very little cleaning and a power head with a sponge that is cleaned more regularly.

In smaller tanks I use one or the other, if I need flow I use the powerhead and I try to compensate by using larger sponges, capable of running tanks twice the size (still on a small powerhead).

I don't have any real facts on this but I'm very happy with mine.

Andreas

On a number of tanks, I have sponge over the inlet pipes of an external filter.
Works well, and saves small grown-on fry (esp ones that benefit from a fast flow of water)from being sucked into filters. The quality of the sponges needs to be able to stand to the suction.
When output flow falls to about a half, it is a simple matter of taking the sponge off the inlet pipe and cleaning it. Reduces major overhauls of the internals of the external filter.

If you fit a powerhead to a sponge filter then you have an internal filter without the outer plastic box.

The skies the limit with options. It is also horse-for-courses.

ian

@Ian: I hate too disagree with you but IMO there is a big difference between internal canister filters & powerhead driven sponge filter apart from the exterior.

1. The powerhead is practically fry safe and provides easy acces for fry & other fish to feed on the surface.

2. Powerheads are soo customisable, want less flow, but still have a large surface? Just use a low l/h powerhead with a massive sponge, or even use multiple sponges with connected to the same head.


I'm not saying these are the best thing since Elvis but they do have their benefits.

Andreas

Melander wrote:

@Ian: I hate too disagree with you but IMO there is a big difference between internal canister filters & powerhead driven sponge filter apart from the exterior.

1. The powerhead is practically fry safe and provides easy acces for fry & other fish to feed on the surface.

2. Powerheads are soo customisable, want less flow, but still have a large surface? Just use a low l/h powerhead with a massive sponge, or even use multiple sponges with connected to the same head.


I'm not saying these are the best thing since Elvis but they do have their benefits.

Andreas

I'm totally lost as to where you're disagreeing with me.....it actually looks as if you are agreeing with me in full.

Confused.com.

If I get this tank, I've realised I'll have to downsize my plans to make it fit underneath the bookcase where it's going, so it'll be just under 100litres instead. That means Africans are a no-no unless I go for shellies. Either way, I think the Nirox s80 I plan on using will be more than enough and if I need more mechanical filtration, I can rig up a filter with an old Juwel powerhead I have goin' a-beggin'

@ian: oh, sry about the confusion Ian. I read your post as you thought the powerhead was just an internal canister without the canister and no other benefits. And here I was hoping for a debate;)

Won't go on about these more as its not really what the thread is about. Believe me I'm not selling them.

Looking forward to see what the choice will be and how it works out.

Andreas

Melander wrote:

@ian: oh, sry about the confusion Ian. I read your post as you thought the powerhead was just an internal canister without the canister and no other benefits. And here I was hoping for a debate;)

Won't go on about these more as its not really what the thread is about. Believe me I'm not selling them.

Looking forward to see what the choice will be and how it works out.

Andreas

We can easily start a debate on another thread . All is good for the fish-keeper in general.
I'm not feeling too well, but I recon I can type.

By reverse U/G do you mean the water is pumped up through the gravel bed?

LemonJelly wrote:

By reverse U/G do you mean the water is pumped up through the gravel bed?

Yes.
With a powerhead that is pretty easy, but when using an air-pump the mechanics become a little more tricky (as you need the air-pump to pump water under the filter without pumping air in) but still easy enough with a bit of thought.

ian

LemonJelly wrote:

If I get this tank, I've realised I'll have to downsize my plans to make it fit underneath the bookcase where it's going, so it'll be just under 100litres instead. That means Africans are a no-no unless I go for shellies. Either way, I think the Nirox s80 I plan on using will be more than enough and if I need more mechanical filtration, I can rig up a filter with an old Juwel powerhead I have goin' a-beggin'

Sounds good, I have two biggish Nirox filters and they have been great, simple and sturdy design. No harm having the powerhead on stand by like you said.

Andreas

This has been enlightening, I thought air driven sponge filters were just fry tank stuff. Well learn something new every day and all that.