Broken Juwel light unit

Hi all,

My lights seem to be busted.
I have changed both tubes for new ones and still no joy.
Plug is good as is the fuse.
Not sure how this system works so can't do a continuity check as I don't know how it should be.

Anyone have any ideas ?
Thanks
Processor.

Have you tried looking at the starters? Otherwise you seem to have ruled out all other possibilities.

You can bypass your original system by adding an acradia controller. You could even add a couple of T5s for more light. Not cheap though.

www.arcadia-uk.info/product.php?pid=7&am...en&sub=&id=4

Thanks for the quick reply Ken.

The unit is sealed and I presume the starters are in the unit itself. I am comfortable with screwdrivers etc. as I work with electronics but on the Juwel site they say that you have 24 months warranty on their products so if I go tricking around I'll invalidate the warranty....might try it anyway.

I don't have any live plants thanks to some hungry Silver Dollars so standard lighting will do.

Expensive enough for a new unit though.
Think I'll give it a go....where's me hammer then !

Processor.

Processor, good luck with the DIY repair, while you're in there do you think it would be possible to add a switch so that the two bulbs of the unit could be switched on independently?

I would like to have on one moonlight bulb on it's own at night, so I might get a few more views of my cats.


Daragh

If I go in I'll let you know how to do it.

Processor.

dont know what jewel you have but this is what is inside the jewel 60.
hope it helps.



www.irishfishkeepers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=236

Hi Processor,

I had this problem with my 260.Problems to rule out are
1:Are the tubes wasted
2:Are the starters wasted
3:Is there a leak anywhere in the silicone (Often occurs)
If so
4:Has the ballast unit been shorted due to moisture

A continuity test was no use to me as a schematic woule be required for the ballast unit (which isnt easily accesible) on the 260 which I couldnt source.There are cheap alternatives on the market.I got a double unit for €45 in Petstop in Blanchardstown (lights not inc.) which does just as good a job.

Daragh you can fit an extra switch for one bulb only but it means taking apart and resealing perfectly and rearranging wiring inside but the option is already there as far as I can see. It has spare terminals for different arrangements of output and a brief schematic of these terminals. I'll post some pics tomorrow.

There is a possibility that the tubes are gone but I'd be very unlucky to get two new ones blown.
As for the moisture shorting the board the whole unit was welded shut. I cant even see the join. I have to say it's very well put together and sealed...quite impressive.
The circuit board is in perfect condition considering it's enviroment of water and moisture. It was fresher looking than a lot of boards I'd see in cars of only one year old. There is one suspect solder joint which I'll touch up in the morning and see but won't be holding my breath.

Only price I could see for a new Juwel light unit was £75 Sterling.
As for €45 for a new unit .... that's sounds pretty good to me Chris so I think I'll pop down to blanch tomorrow. Is this for a light unit to stick onto the center piece that the original light works was housed in or is it for a whole new center piece and fittings i.e. I just add bulbs ?
My one is a Rio 240.
Don't recognise anything as a starter but then a starter to me was always the cylinder type yokes you'd put into a fluoresent light fitting. I may as well look into a hole as a lighting unit. It has 2 eeproms,a few resistors, 2 capacitors,5 transformers( the wire wound type) a few crystals and nothing exciting. Was hoping to find something obviously wrong.

Will go to Blanch.
Thanks lads.

PS. Suppose I'll have to get some fish while I'm there...Ah sure it would be rude not to. Thanks for the excuse Chris.

No probs Processor,might bump into you there myself!!I shoulda mentioned my 260 is about 8 years old.When you say EEPROM's do you mean IC's.If so be careful with the resoldering as they may be temperature sensitive.If you knew what voltage the AC supply is transformed to (5v,9v,12v) you could try to run through the circuit eliminating each component as you go.I would suggest a PB3 but it wouldnt be able to source enough current??.If all else fails I have all the necessary equipment to do a full diagnostic on the unit if you like.

The unit I recommended is just a 12" x 4" unit with 4 connections for 2 tubes and a mains plug.You will still have to leave the current hood and light fixtures in tact,just without the bulbs!!Its small and handy and will fit in behind the tank and the wires are hidden out the back.

hi folks
unfortunatly, the juwel lighting system works on a single ballast (single starter). also, a few years ago they use to have screw in starters that were not waterproof (or anyway close!) so they now sealed them!
so if you have a reciept of purchase (i think its 1 year/2years, but dont quote me confirm it with juwel first!!) you may get a replacement.

Well Serratus if I wasn't such an impatient git then I would have warranty as the Juwel site states 24 months. But now that I have opened it thats that out the window. At least I have to fix it now.

Chris do you attach that new unit to the existing hood or what. Sorry to sound thick(not difficult when I am)but I understand you put the wires and starters down the back out of site but where and how are you attaching the tubes ?

Thanks
Processor.

Thanx for the info Processor. I hope you get yours sorted, looking at the photos from Mr Algae and the mention of Eeproms and ICs which I know absolutely nothing about, I think I might leave it sealed. It is only a few months old and I think I will keep the unit and warranty intact.

Also from what Serratus mentioned about one starter, I imagine I might be able to disable one tube, but how would you "start" the second with the first already running... Don't worry about replying to that I have already decided I am not enough electrically minded to to play about in there :oops:

Happy New Year.



Daragh

Daragh if you don't want the grief of going in then best left alone.
I still have to fix mine but at least I have a bit of time on it.

I went over to LFS in Drogheda yesterday and he gave me a new unit from another Rio 240 complete with two tubes for €100. With tubes running at €25 - €30 each I was pleased especially as I just plugged it in and hey presto.. No messing about and adapting a different unit.
OK I know it's still €100 but I now have 2 spare tubes and the best price I could see for a new unit was Sterling£75 (€112) and stick another week onto delivery.

I'll let ye know if or when I'm successfull in fixing it.

Processor.

Sounds like a good deal Processor, I think I would have done the same.

Daragh

Just to continue on with the theme! The light bar on my RIO 180 had been acting strange recently, going on and off at what ever time it wanted to(within the hours set on the plug timer). Then about five days ago it stopped completely.

In my infinite wisdom I had blown the warranty in the first week of owning the tank as I changed the plug. The plug had become stuck behind a tank full of water and rocks and I had to remove the original one to get the flex out. So, since I was going to have to buy a new Juwel bar I decided I would have a go at fixing the old one.

Juwel heat seal the majority of their light kits so I had to cut the top of the light bar with a saw. When I removed the top part and "too my surprise" the inside of the case was as wet as an otters pocket. water all over the place!! I'm no electrician but I think I found the cause of the problem!!! All the screws and contact points in the bar and on the digital ballast were oxidized. I removed all of the oxidation on the contact points with fine sand paper and I have left the ballast in a warm place to dry out over night.

I will let you know tomorrow if there is life in her yet!! I will also post a couple of pics so that people can see the extent of the water damage and the effectiveness (or lack of) juwels waterproofing!!!

Regards

Jeez I'm surprised to hear that given the submarine quality of my one.
Of course it's a pain in the arse that you have to open it to find out.

Any idea how the water was getting in ?

Processor.

From viewing the light bar from both inside and out, I am of the opinion that the water must have been gaining access through the four contact points at each end of the fluorescent tubes. The waterproofing were these points go into the actual lighting bar is just a small rubber ring, a not very effective one at that.


This is how I think the water gained access. Physics 101!

---

When the lights go on, the digital ballast heats up!

This in turn makes the air around it expand. Pressure builds up inside the bar and it is pushed out through the four "not very well sealed" contact points!

Then when the lights go off, the digital ballast cools and the pressure inside the light bar is less than outside and it draws air back in through the four "not very well sealed" contact points!

The only problem is that the air drawn back in is ladened with moisture from the tank. This done continually for a number months will eventually lead to a build up of water in the light bar.

Thus causing the problem with the oxidization of the contact points or may even lead to a short in the digital ballast.

---

Do you think this sounds plausible?

Ya I'd definitely agree with that.
I remember changing a bulb for the first time and thinking that although it says to really tighten the screw collars, that too tight and you would end up pinching the rubber ring thus allowing water or moisture to get in . With this in mind I tightened it finger tight and then gave it an extra half turn.
In fairness the unit is working in the difficult environment of heating up and cooling down ( a moisture problem in itself) and also the very moist air in the tank .
I know that I have accidentally dropped my light unit right into the tank an odd time and just took it back out - without unpugging of course....Duh ! - and was surprised to find it such good nick when I opened it.

Might be worth not tightening it too much.
Ya I know '"what's not too much" don't have a very good scientific explaination for that one....just close your eyes and feel it man !

Processor ( master of the unhelpfull replies)

I've had various Jewel tanks over the years and never had any problems with them.

Recently. I changed most of my tanks to custom made or DIY jobs.
That meant I had to make all the hoods myself. I'm no electrician but I can wire flourescent light bulbs.
If you are not growing plants, I'd change to led lights. A hell lot cheaper to run. 1.5 watts is enough to run a 50*50*50cm breeding cube.

I'm working on a hood I can suspend over my 2m tank that will allow me to grow plants. Check out this link (the language can be changed to English you will be delighted to hear) :
www.led-tech.de/de/Innovatives/CCFL-Tech...t)-LT-466_26_27.html

The light spectrum isn't suitable to grow plants but I'm thinking of using some warmwhite LED spots to remedy the problem. Just ordered the parts and will start assembling as soon as they arrive). If this shows to be working I'll be saving big time on electricity costs and replacment bulbs.
LEDs last forever and a day.

Holger

Well crap!!!!!

I put the wiring back together tonight with the "dried" digital ballast, plugged it in and nothing happened. So now I am thinking that it is something very terminal. I removed the ballast from the bar and completely stripped it down. The end result is shown in the pictures below.







The circuit board looked alright until I turned it over and it became evident that this problem was more than a couple of oxidised contacts. The water must have been accumulating under the ballast, with the result that it was acting as a connection between the live and neutral parts along the board. Much of the plastic coating along the boards pathways has been melted and many of the actual soldering points for the top side resistors had joined together. "I think the ballast had flat lined". I used a phase tester to check how far the circuit was running to and it only got to about the second resistor. I'm no good with a soldering iron and plus I have no idea where I would get the spare part so I think its time to get a new ballast. See an example of the water damage below, after the removal of the melted plastic.



Now, where to buy a new ballast.

I did a Google and the company (Gangfeng enterprises) that makes the ballast is in china and I can only order a minimum of 50. Anyone want to go splits on an order????? I also tried eBay, but that was a blank too!

Since I have no need for 49 extra ballasts, can anyone on here recommend a lighting/electrical company that "might" stock this sort of thing. In addition I have a ballast of the same size that runs 3 x 20w bulbs, does anyone know if I can use this to run 2 x 30w bulbs. In the end its the same wattage but the matter would be how I would split the extra circuit between the two thirty watt bulbs.

Looking forward to your comments and suggestions

Just to finish off about my episode with the faulty light bar. I remedied the situation by buying an electronic ballast that ran the same number of tubes and wattage as the juwel bar.

This is a picture of the kit!


When I got the kit I stripped off the tube holders, all the wiring for the tubes and power, the protective black casing, and the on/off twitch.

First I had to complete the circuit where I removed the on/off switch and then I added all the original wiring from the light bar into the ballast with the help of my trusty soldering iron. When this was finished, it worked perfectly. Next, I siliconed the crap out of all the possible openings and put the bar back together. It still worked perfectly! and only cost me the bones of €30 to have the ballast delivered to my door.

Hope this is may help someone else as it costs a lot less then then buying a brand new bar. Plus there is no visible sign of the bar ever being opened apart from the bead of silicone on the underside.

Regards

Denis