Dart Frog Community set-up Pictures

Maybe we need a bit of getting some dart frog stuff going again.

I don’t normally go for Dart Frog community set-ups, but this is a community of dart frogs that I have.
With careful selection of décor, visual barriers, the correct species & gender and reduced water spots, a community can work.


I will give a small apology as these pictures were taken through the glass of a rather foggy tank…so resolution is lacking a tad.



Dendrobates tinctorius azureus and D. auratus


Dendrobates leucomelas


Dendrobates leucomelas


Dendrobates auratus


Dendrobates tinctorius azureus

These are all relatively easy to care for Dart Frogs. The auratus being ones, however, to take care over food size as they cannot really deal with the size of food that the leucomelas or the azureus can deal with safely.

Care needs to be taken that the larger azureus do not become overly aggressive.

Care needs to be taken NOT to ever raise any hybrids within dart frogs.....and that also means crosses between different morphs of the same species.
Apart from the need to help make sure that strains are kept as natural as possible, cross-bred morphs are simply crap and tend to be disproportionate and not very attractive.


Here is the viv…..I turned the fogger off to give some sort of visuals, but I’m not cleaning the misted front.



AND for the secret infrastructure…..I place plastic see-though cups under various pieces of décor.
I add water to these cup and the frogs can go inside with minimal chance of drowning by other frogs. They also form a nice little micro-climate in case the humidity in the tank goes too low (I use fans within the viv to circulate the air and to control humidity)
So, here is one of the auratus peeking out of its home.



Showing 2 D. auratus (and a D. leucomelas off to the right side peeking out).



I use moss (aquatic and terrestrial), bromeliads, java fern, and Cryptocorynes as plants in this particular viv. I don’t want it too heavily planted as I need to keep an eye on things.
This plant is a Cryptocoryne during its adjustment from aquatic life to terrestrial life.



D. leucomelas under the Bromeliad. The leucomelas has decided to take the bromeliad as their home.


D. auratus under a Cryptocoryne aquatic plant.


ian

excellent stuff, these are really appealing little critters

hi ian can u give a break down on what equipment needed for these little beauties and were can you buy them

thank you keitho

Keitho, it's about basic rules as you can make the system as easy and cheap or as complicated and expensive as you like.

The basic rules are...
1. Relatively easy to keep alive; very easy to rapidly kill. (so that is the goal to avoid).
2. Select the right and good healthy frogs in the beginning. Never buy Wild-Caught frogs, and never start with any Phylobates species.
3. Cleanliness. Mainly no festering gooey messes within the viv. (easy to do).
4. Temperature from 20 to 26 celsius. Some can go lower, but over 30 will kill pretty quickly. Don't allow frogs to come into contact with the heat source.
5. High humidity. Low humidity (room humidity) will kill very quickly.
6. Airy conditions....don't allow the viv to get stagnated air spaces.
7. Carbon dioxide at the lower reaches of a viv will kill much more rapidly than lack of oxygen. Don't let it build up.
8. Avoid large water areas unless you have the facilities to properly filter and maintain that water butt. Best to use shallow dishes with water added daily.
9. Water should be first boiled, cooled and have a good quality water conditioner such as Tetra AquaSafe added to remove chlorine and chloramines. Do not use just any old dechlorinator.
10. Make the viv escape proof.

So...all of the above are pretty easy to do really. The key is setting up a good system from the start.
You could use hi-tech gear (eg have things such as Lucky Reptile Foggers) or use low-tech stuff (eg cling-film over the top of the viv and daily misting).... it is easy to improvise with dart-frogs.

I would recommend a thermostat for the heat mat, but place the heat-mat outside of the viv.

You will need small food, and dust that food with a proprietary calcium supplement. I won't go into the full details of feeding, UV lighting or viatmin D3 requirements yet though.

Not many places in Ireland sell these. Reptile Haven in Dublin have some.
I do believe that FFF in swords has some, but not sure.

Prices can range from about 50/60 euro a frog upto 800 euro per frog depending upon species. In the above frogs, the yellow and black (leucomelas) and the green and black (auratus) are much cheaper than the blue guys (azureus).

ian

fair play Ian
an interesting read, plus lovely frogs and viv layout
very nice

Des

Hi Ian,
Long time a that interesting reading was put up.Fair play.By the way the camera in Argos was out of stock.So no early birthday present:angry: .Thanks again,Tim

setting one of these up in march as a birthday present well the girlfriend is covering the cost as my birthday present cant wait so intresting id say to have

These guys are active enough to make them lovely creatures.

In an attempt to shoot a video through a misty glass front... here we go...

Thats some setup have there, stunning creatures. Thanks for sharing

Gerry

Great little creatures to watch Ian, very cool viv, the PDFs very nice pets indeed.

Mark

I had no idea you could grow aquatic plants in this way, you learn summit new every day eh. Is it the high humidity that makes this possible? Java fern you use, is this the aquatic type or a different one? Those PDFs are stuning colours and I'll be damned if they aren't very interesting to study and just fun to watch. Might seem like a stupid question, but can you make actually poison darts with these lads?


What are they scoffing down in the video Ian?



Mark

In that particular tank, all the plants (except the bromeliad and some tree mosses) came from Seahorse aquarium....so they are standard out-of-the-aquatic-shop plants. No fancy 'dart-frog-only' things there.

The Cryptocorynes do the best....and that is the best way to grow those particular species of Crypts. The humidity in the viv is very high but also there is plenty of air circulating and exchanged between the tank and outside.... I use PC cooling fans above the tank in the light housing.
I don't think that I pointed the camera towards the java fern....but it is normal java fern.

The behaviour of dart-frogs is fascinating, but subtle.

Food..... on that day, the dinner was micro-crickets and no1 crickets.

Poison....always a good question, and one that many are concerned about.

These particular species would not be the most toxic dart frog.
However, these particular specimens are captive-bred and are carefully fed such as to not allow toxicity.

In nearly all dart-frogs studied, the various toxins have been traced back to a dietary source within the wilds. There are some dart-frog where there are questions about the source, and there are some poison dart-frogs that have tetrodotoxin (a la puffer fish) in their skin that seems to be produced by a bacteria in specialised areas (just like the puffer fish).

The effect of toxins in the wild specimens range from causing sickness to a bitter taste through to one of the most potent toxin known that will kill in very very small amounts (much more potent than puffer-fish toxin !!!!)
Each species of frog in the wilds have different toxins and varying amounts of the toxins.
There are loads of alkaloid toxins in dart frogs.... the list is getting bigger and bigger each year as new discoveries are made.

So...for these specimens, there is little chance of any danger to humans. However, I use latex gloves for handling them anyway so as to protect them from poisons and harmful acids on my hands and that means that I would be protected in case any toxin traces exist.

There are some people who recon that the bright colours are a 'warning-sign'.... I personally say that that is, by and large, not a very good explanation at all.

ian

Many thanks for the detailed explanation Ian, and also keeping PDFs, if I was your neighbour I wouldn't get on yer bad side:laugh:

Interesting it can depend on their diet and also the bacterial process in areas on the skin. These little fellows are sometihng I would live to give a try, the vivarium is fantastic, would love something lie that one day but jaesus there there are just not enough hours in the day. At the moment. I couldn't commit time to care for them as they should be cared for and would probably end up killing the poor sods.



Why can't I win the lottery and spend all day in a huge fish house:)

Mark

The dart-frogs don't take too much time if the viv is set-up correctly from the beginning.
(a bit like a fish tank..... if you try to keep an oscar in a small tank with no filtration then its going to be no end of constant water changes).

I manage to find time for all of this....18 fish tanks, a load of vivaria with tarantulas, insects, chameleons, other reptiles and amphibians, and until our recent house move we had 30 odd guinea pigs (we now only have 8). Not to mention my orchid collection.
Then still find time to do music, electronics, photography, and computer programming along with my personal scientific research and my day-job, and be be chairperson of the herpetological society.

Hey....and I'm an old codger. So, no excuses for youngsters.

igmillichip wrote:

The dart-frogs don't take too much time if the viv is set-up correctly from the beginning.
(a bit like a fish tank..... if you try to keep an oscar in a small tank with no filtration then its going to be no end of constant water changes).

I manage to find time for all of this....18 fish tanks, a load of vivaria with tarantulas, insects, chameleons, other reptiles and amphibians, and until our recent house move we had 30 odd guinea pigs (we now only have 8). Not to mention my orchid collection.
Then still find time to do music, electronics, photography, and computer programming along with my personal scientific research and my day-job, and be be chairperson of the herpetological society.

Hey....and I'm an old codger. So, no excuses for youngsters.

Unfortuately I am doing 12 hour shifts 4 on 3 off so I have three good fishkeeping days, Baby on the way on Feb. oh and herself demands a portion of my time now and then though she is kind enough to feed my minions when I am at work, not spending a fortune on automatic feeders.

How on earth are you keeping up with all that, Has Ian perfected basement DIY cloning? 50 Ians runnin about:laugh:


Mark

Mark. wrote:

igmillichip wrote:

The dart-frogs don't take too much time if the viv is set-up correctly from the beginning.
(a bit like a fish tank..... if you try to keep an oscar in a small tank with no filtration then its going to be no end of constant water changes).

I manage to find time for all of this....18 fish tanks, a load of vivaria with tarantulas, insects, chameleons, other reptiles and amphibians, and until our recent house move we had 30 odd guinea pigs (we now only have 8). Not to mention my orchid collection.
Then still find time to do music, electronics, photography, and computer programming along with my personal scientific research and my day-job, and be be chairperson of the herpetological society.

Hey....and I'm an old codger. So, no excuses for youngsters.

Unfortuately I am doing 12 hour shifts 4 on 3 off so I have three good fishkeeping days, Baby on the way on Feb. oh and herself demands a portion of my time now and then though she is kind enough to feed my minions when I am at work, not spending a fortune on automatic feeders.

How on earth are you keeping up with all that, Has Ian perfected basement DIY cloning? 50 Ians runnin about:laugh:


Mark

Congrats on the forthecoming baby.

I suppose I'm now free of my three kids....all grown up and have flown.

Time is all about philosophy...... being of an aged hippy generation, one burns the candle at both ends to build everything within the holistic tapestry of life. One simply moves within that tapestry taking skills and short-cuts from one side and using it in another. If you follow.

I found I had more time when the kids were young to do things, I don't know how we had the energy. Myself and my wife decided to set-up a company just after the 1st kid was born, then decided for both of us to go back to university to do something different just after our last kid was born. We both ended up doing a full-time and part-time degree each (including both of us doing a PhD within our time) just to fill in the spare time between kids, the business and 40 odd large fish tanks. no wonder I aged rapidly.

It's all a bit like moving between academic subject areas....one can do it the difficult way or the structured way. I like the structured way and it brings loads of useful knowledge across the tapestry of life.

I'm now off to listen to 90 minute long prog-hippy-rock music songs. !!
("Tales From Topographic Oceans" by "Yes".... hunt it down and move to the movements)

I'm now off to listen to 90 minute long prog-hippy-rock music songs. !!
("Tales From Topographic Oceans" by "Yes".... hunt it down and move to the movements)

Grrovy, Mr lebowski, erm sorry "Your Dudeness"



Mark

Mark. wrote:

I had no idea you could grow aquatic plants in this way, you learn summit new every day eh.

Actually the most aquarium plants are "dry" cultured.The first time I saw this was in Thailand.They had them in pollytunnels with a sprinkler system.Regards,Tim

Frontosa wrote:

Mark. wrote:

I had no idea you could grow aquatic plants in this way, you learn summit new every day eh.

Actually the most aquariumplants are "dry" cultured.The first time I saw this was in Thailand.They had them in pollytunnel.Regards,Tim

Cheers Tim, just when you think you may know something about all this fish water and plants business now and again you are reminded you actually know very little:)



mark

Mark. wrote:

Frontosa wrote:

Mark. wrote:

I had no idea you could grow aquatic plants in this way, you learn summit new every day eh.

Actually the most aquariumplants are "dry" cultured.The first time I saw this was in Thailand.They had them in pollytunnel.Regards,Tim

Cheers Tim, just when you think you may know something about all this fish water and plants business now and again you are reminded you actually know very little:)



mark

I would recommend growing Crypts this way if only to see the fantastic 'flowers' they produce.

Java moss and Java Fern grow much better out of the water (in a marshy or very humid environment) than under it.

If you successfully get a flower on Crypts then you'll be hooked into another aspect of 'aquatics'.

ian

any joy with breeeding these guys

I don't bother breeding the Dendrobates species of dart frog, but I do presently breed some frogs that were once in the Dendrobates genus. These are the Thumbnail poison dart frogs.
That breeding is for scientific research as only 1 or 2 tadpoles are raised per spawning, and it is the parental behaviour and nutrition that I am looking at.

But, I used to breed some of the species shown in the pics here.

ian

Here's some older photos on the breeding.

The Eggs upon being layed just above the water level.


Some tadpoles developing...


the male parent with 2 tadpoles being carried on his back.


a nearly developed froglet (and this is actually bigger than the full-sized adult frog)


Showing just how small these frogs are.... on its head is a freshly hatched micro-cricket.


ian

and to get another idea of how small the other frogs that I'm working on, here is a picture of one of my frogs on my 'latex-clad' hands.

www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/201...4/1224271820391.html

Just amazing,Ian.Well done.Regards,Tim

Great work there Ian, fair play, in for a penny, in for a pound:) You don;t take your work lightly.

If I ever keep them, I wont feed them Mites and Ants:)

Love the shot of the little PDF that still had his tail and the tads, brilliant:) Also the microcricket getting a free ride:)

I missed the most amazing photo a couple of weeks ago in my fish room, had no camera then, my Birchir came up to the surface to grab a live black cricket and he missed and the cricket trying to stand on anything solid held on to the birchir above and behind his head and rode the Birchir down to the bottom of the tank and let go, cursed my luck having no camera to take a picture of soem Birchir Rodeo.


Mark

i feel we are in the company of some one who seems to be doing so much on a professional level that the rest of us could only dream of reaching


just amazing ian well done

Hats off to you Ian, very healthy specimens there. What kind of quarantine do they observe before they are sold?
I'm just curious because of the highly infectious Chytridiomycosis .

I know you probably have read these articles but I include them for those who might not have.

www.int-res.com/articles/dao2003/55/d055p065.pdf
www.nature.com/news/2009/091022/full/news.2009.1031.html

And here's an interesting one on a simple product that shows the local battle might not be lost although how one goes about implementing this across a huge area of rainforest defies imagination.

www.nature.com/news/2009/091022/full/news.2009.1031.html

I firmly believe that all that ails the organic part of the world can be cured from within the World, it is an intricately woven matrix of chemical compounds that binds things and it is the unraveling of same that leads to cures.

People tend to think that Drugs are Man made where in fact, we only refine them, they have been here long before Man, like Asprin from Willow trees and Quinine for Malaria or Acetyldigoxin from Digitalis or Foxglove for heart problems.

Here's a great link to Plant derived Drugs.

chemistry.about.com/library/weekly/aa061403a.htm



Kev.

Cheers guys.

@Kev.... the Chytrid fungus is a real concern at present.
Not only for exotic frogs in captivity or in far off lands, but also for our own native amphibians.

One of the points that I always try to emphasise is the responsibility that keepers of amphibians and field-workers have to not spread the fungus from place to place.

Now, this also applies to fish-keepers especially as some may have fish that have come from waters containing amphibians (eg axolotls or african clawed frogs where maybe little care has been taken in quarantine).

I am not always confident that all amphibians offered for sale are quarantined well enough. Hence, a keeper should take necessary steps to quarantine properly and to dispose of waste water or substrate properly.

If I am sure of the source for any of my frogs then they are quarantined for only 3 to 6 months.
If I am unsure or suspicious of the real source, then they are quarantined in easily destroyable tanks for a period of 1 year.

Any waste water or old substrate should be treated with strong bleach before disposal.
If any animals die then they should be properly incinerated.
If one of those animals died within the quarantine period, or if there is suspected Chytrid fungus then a full autopsy is vital and the amphibian and the vivarium/tank are incinerated and subjected to bleach.

Now, to some that may sound like draconium measures....but not if it means making sure of isolating the fungus.

There is a major extinction threat to dart frogs: loss of habitat; Chytrid fungus; illegal collections; and changes in terrestrial UV light levels (possibly linked to lowered ozone in some regions, and possibly affecting breeding patterns and behaviour).

Some of my work is looking at perfecting captive breeding programmes and looking at the effect of UV on offspring viability and breeding patterns.

Amphibians can be rather tricky to treat for illnesses, so a key point is prevention.

Although I used to get paid for working on research and design of chemotherapeutic agents, I'm a strong believer in prevention and the use of diet and to look at natural healing properties out there.

Some of the plants in Kev's link have some pretty potent compounds.... let no one ever say "it's natural so it must be safe". But, a medicine is only a medicine because it is a poison....it is the dose that decides if it kills or not (basic principles of toxicology).

I think that a discussion on amphibian conservation and looking at potential medicines from nature are very important (and in that Dart Frogs contain some potentially powerful basis for medicines.... just need to control the toxicity of some of them)

ian

great information and photos ian. really enjoyed reading about these little frogs and their breeding. interesting point re the disposal of waste water and the care required.