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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Rating of petshop's

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17 Aug 2011 13:51 #1 by Jambomac (James McConville)
Ok i know this could potentially controversial but like many of you's i've gone into large petshop's looked at the tank's trying to see through the brown algae all over the tank which then leads to question are you just bringing fish home to die.
Now for those of us more experienced in spotting the healthy fish from the one about croke it but for those who don't paticularly know what to look out for.
1.What i mean is rate them on quality of there fish.
2.Rate them on there knowledge of said fish and so on.
3.How clean they keep everything.

It might larger shops take more pride in what there selling and not just put the sick fish on special.
Like i've been told by the shops so called fish experts "i don't know look it up on the internet i'm only learning it" if you don't know what your selling don't sell it.

As i said this could be controversial and would be allowed to honestly rate our sponsors now the one i go to takes great care in there fish and are an abundance of knowledge.
But not everybody has this on there doorstep and i think it could be beneficial all opinions welcome.

“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.”

quote Bruce Lee

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17 Aug 2011 14:06 #2 by JohnH (John)
You are so right - this is a potentially controversial minefield.

I urge that anyone choosing to reply to this thread exercise extreme caution.

Here are the Forum Rules regarding this subject:

"Posting about shops

We all want a high standard of fish keeping and we all hope that retailers maintain a high-standard. However, the ITFS does not want to get sued for slanderous comments about a retailer. If you wish to post about a specific retailer, do not mention their name and only refer to the retailer in the 3rd party. If you are posting negative comments about a retailer, ensure your comments are based on fact, no exaggerations."

And here's a link to the Rules page:

www.irishfishkeepers.com/index.php/fforum/rules

It might be as well for everyone to read through these from time to time, my guess might be that not everyone does.

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


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It's a long way to Tipperary.

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17 Aug 2011 14:11 #3 by Valerie (Valerie)
Replied by Valerie (Valerie) on topic Re: Rating of petshop's
Oooh - very controversial indeed !!!!! :ohmy: :ohmy:

In addition to each and everyones' preferences, perceptions and possible grudges, you are talking about a potential "name and shame" session ... which might not be that objective in the end.
Personally, I wouldn't even consider launching into something like this on this forum.

The best people can do is vote with their feet. If they walk into a shop, sponsor or not, and are not happy with what they see or hear, they can just walk out without purchasing.
If a shop were particularly bad and nothing were being sold, then natural selection will occur.

Valerie

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17 Aug 2011 14:29 #4 by dar (darren curry)
wat if it based on a gold star rating 1-5. 1 star off a begrudged customer is better than none

Check out the angling section, it is fantastic

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17 Aug 2011 14:38 #5 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
not only is this controversial, and full of legal questions, there is still the problem of the quality of the rating and whomsoever gives such a rating.

We, the HSI, were asked to do such a thing (or Shop-Spy or similar)...and without any discussion, I said 'No Way'.

There may be some good and well-meaning theory, but who is to say if the advice given is good or the quality of fish is good, or the range of stock is good?
Whilst I think it is probably fair enough for an individual to say they think this shop is great and that one is crap, it is a different kettle of fish to have an institutionalist grading of shops.

If a newcomer walks into a shop that only sells piranha and moray eels and the such, then they will have a completely different a 'good range' to someone to only wants moray eels.

I do, however, think that (without stating or hinting at location of shops) a good topic for discussion is what people think makes a good aquatic shop (and do it in-depth).
There was a thread on here last year when I first joined the forum.

Ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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17 Aug 2011 14:40 #6 by JohnH (John)

wat if it based on a gold star rating 1-5. 1 star off a begrudged customer is better than none


I wonder if the tables were turned and the Shops had a poll which rated their customers?

In my travels I do hear some less-than-complimentary views aired about certain customers, I'm sad to say that some of those are actually Forum members (not yourself Dar, I hasten to add).

Anyway - this is only my attempt at trying to show that there are two sides to every scenario...this isn't an invitation for complaints!

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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17 Aug 2011 14:47 #7 by dar (darren curry)
customer = one who spends money.

unfortunately i dont fall into this category lol

i dont know, any sponsors i went to are normally in tip top shape. yes some have bad days but so do we all and it would be unfair to judge them on that.

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17 Aug 2011 15:19 - 17 Aug 2011 15:27 #8 by darragh (Darragh Sherwin)
Hey,

Just to weigh in about the rules on this subject, so everybody understand the basis for the rules.

In a court case 2-3 years ago an organisation took on Betfair for what was slanderous comments on Betfair's forum.
The outcome of the court case was
  1. that Betfair couldn't be held liable for slanderous comments, the poster is liable for their comments.
  2. If Betfair knowning let slanderous comments continued to published after they were discovered, they were held accountable
  3. Legitimate negative comments was acceptable as long as the comments remained factual

The rules are to offer the admins some protection from being sued if someone posts slanderous comments.None of the admins have financial resources to deal with a liability case.
Also, it is extremely hard to police what is factual versus a slanderous comment about a shop.

<dictator>As I am the one that pays the bills for this forum, I am extremely opposed to rating pet shops on this website. It's too controversial and filled with legal issues. If you want to rate a pet shop, rate it with your feet.</dictator>

Darragh
Last edit: 17 Aug 2011 15:27 by darragh (Darragh Sherwin).

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17 Aug 2011 16:59 #9 by DJK (David Kinsella)
I can only give an opinion on the 3 sponser shops that I've visited. Seahorse, Fintastic Aquatics and Purrfect Pets. No such thing as perfect, so 9/10 for me for those 3.

I honestly think that this thread should be deleted though.



Dave

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17 Aug 2011 17:02 #10 by igmillichip (ian millichip)

wat if it based on a gold star rating 1-5. 1 star off a begrudged customer is better than none


I wonder if the tables were turned and the Shops had a poll which rated their customers?

In my travels I do hear some less-than-complimentary views aired about certain customers, I'm sad to say that some of those are actually Forum members (not yourself Dar, I hasten to add).

Anyway - this is only my attempt at trying to show that there are two sides to every scenario...this isn't an invitation for complaints!

John


Now.....that IS an idea that I would support. :whistle:
I would feel pretty insulted if I did not get some pretty awful press. :evil:

ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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17 Aug 2011 17:47 #11 by dar (darren curry)

I can only give an opinion on the 3 sponser shops that I've visited. Seahorse, Fintastic Aquatics and Purrfect Pets. No such thing as perfect, so 9/10 for me for those 3.

I honestly think that this thread should be deleted though.



Dave


ah i think deleting it would be unfair as the rules are not broke (are they?) i think it is a heads up not to slate shops. dun dun duuuunnnn..... dave if anything you stated that these shops are not 100%, bold boy :evil: ah i'm sure they would be more than delighted with that score and i agree, every sponsor ive been in (bar the odd mishap which is expected) are all fantastic shops. but as you say nothing is in life is perfect (except me of course :angel: )

(i am studying in the JohnH school of emoticons)

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17 Aug 2011 17:59 #12 by DJK (David Kinsella)
No rules broken as of yet Dar, but surely you know where this is going to end up. Surely.

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17 Aug 2011 17:59 #13 by Jambomac (James McConville)
So the basic thought would be no. i was thinking more along the line of the star rating and i'm not specifically talking of our sponsors, i was just giving an example that if we were to rate that sponsors in specifics would be most difficult.

Voting with feet is great idea but majority of people aren't on these types of sites and probably don't know they exist or that its the advice the shop is giving is wrong etc?
so they just believe its them getting wrong.

I started this because there certain side topics popping up in other threads about other shops.
so i thought it would be better to have in one place.

John rating customers i'd like see the first business that does that and survives.

I don't think this thread should be deleted as if somebody who works for those types of shops in question reads this in passing,It could just redirect them in the right direction.

Did i open a can a worms or what?

“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.”

quote Bruce Lee

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17 Aug 2011 18:15 - 17 Aug 2011 18:18 #14 by dar (darren curry)
right so rating is out of the question, but wat if mr.y asks "could you recommend a good shop and wat do you think of shop x?"

should a post like this be deleted as it can not be answered honestly

edit: well the second half cant

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Last edit: 17 Aug 2011 18:18 by dar (darren curry).

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17 Aug 2011 18:27 #15 by JohnH (John)
There is always the ever-faithful Personal (Private) Messages option, as it says on the tin (I've been influenced by Ronseal Advertising - and great stuff it is too) it's Private, the only one who sees the message is the writer and whoever he/she sends it too.
So no fear of litigation and no outward harm done.

And all that without a hint of a smiley, see Dar.

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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17 Aug 2011 18:34 #16 by dar (darren curry)
but if someone was to answer when the itfs police are asleep things could get heated. as that well known tooth paste add once said "prevention is better than cure"

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17 Aug 2011 18:41 #17 by Jambomac (James McConville)
I suppose if shops where to sign up to star rating thing than litigation we would be safe from but only the ones who have nothing to hide would actually sign up and would potentially benefit from such a rating system like B&B's and restaraunts do.

As novices could browse sites like this and know i can trust this shop or not?

I understand the P.M's but the problem is with that is you could constantly get same question over and over again.

“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.”

quote Bruce Lee

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17 Aug 2011 18:58 - 17 Aug 2011 18:58 #18 by Valerie (Valerie)
Replied by Valerie (Valerie) on topic Re: Rating of petshop's

but if someone was to answer when the itfs police are asleep things could get heated.


This is where the "Report to Moderator" button should be used. If, in any circumstances, someone finds a post they don't think is appropriate, they should press that button. The Moderators/Admins are then made aware of it and can deal with it ... and, by the way, they never sleep !!! ;)

Valerie
Last edit: 17 Aug 2011 18:58 by Valerie (Valerie).

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17 Aug 2011 19:06 #19 by Valerie (Valerie)
Replied by Valerie (Valerie) on topic Re: Rating of petshop's

Did i open a can a worms or what?


No, you didn't. We certainly welcome discussions like these. It's good to put ideas on the table and discuss them in total serenity as it is in this thread. :)

The evoked concept is not viable for various reasons including possible legal consequences as discussed above, but it's good to be able to debate of the pros and cons. :)


Valerie :)

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17 Aug 2011 19:17 #20 by dar (darren curry)

they never sleep !!! ;)


no, i never sleep, and that is why i am such a lick arse these days. i also want the dental plan, healthcare and pension that comes with the mod job lol

does much grassing go down? i doubt it as there is rarely anything to grass on.

in such a case could the question be put on a watch list where any replies would be reviewed before posted.

do not do this with all posts as it would ruin the forum totally

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17 Aug 2011 19:24 #21 by Valerie (Valerie)
Replied by Valerie (Valerie) on topic Re: Rating of petshop's

no, i never sleep, ...


Sorry - I meant we never sleep ... :P


and that is why i am such a lick arse these days.


Are you really ? :blink:

i also want the dental plan, healthcare and pension that comes with the mod job lol


Never mind the lovely company car ... I like my Ferrari !!! ;)

does much grassing go down? i doubt it as there is rarely anything to grass on.


lol - not much - but in some cases, it would be better than jumping in and causing more trouble (not directed at you :) )

Valerie

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