Howya !

As a newcomer, Iv been reading sites avidly over the past few weeks hoping to ensure what Im doing is correct. I changed my setup recently to a substrate ( John Innes No3 garden compost with a cap of sand - also put some Osmacote fert underneath substrate) I wanted a low tech set up and really couldnt afford all that fancy substrate - ADA, Amazonia etc. Understand that this type of substrate can be good for a planed tank which is what I'm aiming for ( and as cheap as possible !!! ). - No CO2 - no ferts.
Its a 20 gallon tank, Fluval 3 in-tank sponge filter, standard heater with 18w light.
Dechlorinated the tap water before filling up - introduced some cycle fluid and left for 2 weeks to "self-cycle" without fish. Then planted some vallis,alternaticka reickii "red", echinadorus, small bacopa ( cant remember which type) - all seemed to do well.
Put in 4 shrimp and dwarf pleco - all doing nicely so far. However, I noticed that the plants are going downhill now - especially the alt. reickii. The sword plants leaves seem to be getting thinner.
Finally, last week I put in 5 harlequin rasboras and 5 rummy nose tetras - within 4 days 9 dead !!! I noticed that the poor old dying rasboras were swimming around with mouths open ( oxygen starvation ?) before they died. Iv had lights on 8-9 hours daily - did 2 or 3 50% water changes in 4 weeks + 1 full water change.

Is it because I have no daily dosing of ferts that my plants are deteriorating slowly ?
And what would have killed the fish ?
Im in the process of getting an all-in-one liquid fert in the coming days and was wondering should i also get liquid carb ?

Hi, welcome to the forum.

First things first, was your tank cycled properly before you added fish? Did you test the water throughout the cycling?It will usually take at least 4 weeks to complete the cycle. I see in you post you said after two weeks you added plants, how long after this were the fish added? When the plants started to go bad did you remove the dead leaves?Did you check that the compost you used was ok for aquarium use? Are you hood lights strong enough to support plant ? And I would have my lights on for about 12 hours a day to keep the plants happy.

Sorry about all the questions but a clearer picture of the situation will probably reveal the problem.

Stuart.

I agree with stuart on certain things like have you tested your water? If the fish were gasping at the surface it could indicate ammonia poisoning which would mean your system wasn't ready yet for fish, are you dechlorinating your water? Having your filter outlet high in the tank will create surface movement to aid gas exchange etc. I wouldn't have done such large water changes so early in the maturing process either unless it was absolutely necessary.
I would put the lights on a split day of maybe 3hrs around noon and 3hrs late afternoon untill your tank matures but supose we all have our own ways... Welcome on board all the same

Wylam & Davyc

firstly ... hands up on the testing. didnt do any myself - got lad in LFS to test a sample after about 3 weeks and he said it was "perfect" - so, I bought pleco and 4 shrimp and another plant and put them in about a week after he said water was ok. never removed dying leaves from alt reineckii plant - seemed to be dying from bottom up - best ones on top. Did online research on John Innes No3 compost as substrate - seemed to work for many in UK - with sand top, as I did.
I put in the other 10 fish last thursday - about 4
weeks from start up.
1 No. 18w hood bulb - turn it on at 8.30 before work and get son to turn it off at about 5pm.
12hrs photo period - that much ??
dechlorinated water during water changes.
I thought shrimp would be far more sensitive than the RM tetras and rasboras to water quality - got areal shock when the fish started panning out !

Hi welcome to the forum

First thing you need to do is buy a test kit this is your first project `learning how water in a tank works before adding any fish, and then seeing what happens when you add fish little by little is the way to do it, small fish 6 max, quick example if you add to many fish at once `you wreck the water and may start again

You need to acclimate the fish very slowly, ph is very important here, ive always done a ph test on the new bagged fish/s till it matches their new home

Its a good idea to have a air stone for any plants if not using co2

Adding 10 fish at once was mad in a new tank especially rummy nose tetras, in a established tank they will be the first fish to let you know their is something wrong with the water, and whatever you do dont add neons they will wipe out everything most of the time (cardinals are a better choice when tank is mature)

Your water changes should only be 10% 20 very max weekly

And think a 18w light is way to low for any plants


Sorry if you think im coming across as very negative it does sound like it as im writing it But im only trying to help you now rather than later and you start to hate this amazing hobby

It will work out for you, Just take it a little slower, allot of people's mistake are made by rushing and just want to see the perfect tank they dreamed of right in front of them, but it doesn't work that way unfortunately you have to take your time and learn like the rest of us and we are here to help in any way we can

Hi Frank, I do a bit of gardening and the john innes no 3 contains chemical ferts like nitrogen in the form of water dissolvable ammonia which from what I know is highly toxic to fish. Who advised you to use it as a substrate in your tank?.

Hi frankfield , yeah my tanks are roughly the size of yours and the hoods lights stay on for 12hours a day, 18W X2. Anything less and my plants dont like it . It is very possible that it is your compost that could be causing the problem, but your own test kit would be invaluable so you can properly monitor the water. It could also be that the PH of your tank water was massively different to the PH that the tetra's were used to and when you put them in the tank the shock killed them. Or it could just be that you put to many fish in the tank in to short a time period, 1 pleco, 4 shrimp and 10 more 4 weeks from set up does seem a bit much.

Dont worry it will all come right in time just listen to what the guys have to say here and they will steer you in the right direction.

Stuart.

Paul,
when i was doing online search on planted tanks, I came across a number of Forums ( UKAPS, etc) where people had successfully used "dirt tanks", using various types of compost, including John Innes, to grow aquatic plants in their fish tanks. Some had more success than others. I read a fair bit about it, and apart from the inexpensive attraction of a bag of John Innes No. 3 (< €5), it seemed like a chance i was prepared to take. Coupled with that, I was unable to source any of the standard substrates for a planted tank down here in the few pet shops in Cork City. Have a Google at aquariums with compost and see the variety.
In hindsight ( which is marvelous), I now know i should have probably left the tank to cycle for a lot longer, given the unknown components of the John Innes No.3 - and as Wylam says should also invest in my own test kit ( this is my 2nd ever tank - last one i had for 6 years - neon tetras,rummies, bala shark,danios,gravel substrate but zero plants). I'll admit I got complacent over the years, and forgot how to even cycle a tank correctly in my haste to try and get the plants up and running.
I'm hoping to try and develop a decent looking planted tank with the visual emphasis divided between the plants and a few schools of small fish ( tetras or similar). A lowtech low maintenance job would be ideal - If I could only retain half of what I read over the past weeks .... and acted upon it !!!
Thanks for the continuing advice lads - I need it all !!
Pleco, 4 shrimp and last remaining RM tetra are still holding their own.
Next Stop : test kit
BTW .. what about liquid fert. for the existing plants ? Should I use it? and if I'm not gonna use gas form Co2 I read that liquid carbon is a good substitute for a tank of my size (20gls approx).
Any advice again lads ? Im just wondering if i dont dose the tank soon is there a danger that I'll lose all the plants ..

Welcome aboard. I'd say your problem is the John Innes. Stick with it, if we dont make mistakes, we never learn

I think for the lushest, greenest growth you do need ferts and some type of carbon. I use EasyCarbo and find it great

I have just sand substrate in my tank and i dose it with easy carbo, remember that the plants will also feed on the waste produced by the fish.

Stuart.

Welcome to the forum mate and as I can't even keep Anubias alive I think i'll leave it at that

Ger

ger310 wrote:

Welcome to the forum mate and as I can't even keep Anubias alive I think i'll leave it at that

Ger

im the same as ger about planted tanks, my trouble is the fish I keep, large catfish and the plant destroying silver dollars. I do know that general agricultural and garden fertiliser is highly toxic to fish, where spills have happened in rivers many hundreds of fish have died. There are many guys on the forum that maintain realy beautiful planted tanks where the fish take second place to the plants, these are the guys to ask about maintaining a planted tank.

Thanks for that Paul - I'll go thru' the topics on the Forum later and search for Planted Tanks to see how the rest of the lads / lassies do it properly.