dyed fish please read..............

.whats all this name and shame rubbish were not dealing with arch criminals here.selling dyed fish is not against the law irreprehensible it may be but criminal it aint someone please tell me were is the problem with naming the shop or shops that are selling dyed fish as far as im aware this site would or could not be held liable .for simply posting the name of the shop as no laws have been broken.maybe its a case of the old boys network . we dont want to upset one of our own.......instead of beating around the bush posting innuendos and every one playing guess who let users know were these fish are on sale and let people make there own mind up as to what action they take.....lets put this matter to rest .once and for all

2 good reasons here from 2poc and wolfsberg not to name and shame
www.irishfishkeepers.com/cms/component/o...ew/catid,38/id,48382

LB

The Rules are :

Posting about shops
•We all want a high standard of fish keeping and we all hope that retailers maintain a high-standard. However, the ITFS does not want to get sued for slanderous comments about a retailer. If you wish to post about a specific retailer, do not mention their name and only refer to the retailer in the 3rd party. If you are posting negative comments about a retailer, ensure your comments are based on fact, no exaggerations

( www.irishfishkeepers.com/cms/component/o...temid,28/func,rules/ )

While this discussion forum is completely opposed to the practice and retail of dyed fish, please no naming shops.

Valerie

This has all been said before......

So if you come across a shop selling these fish ask the manager nicely why they are selling these fish?

Then if you stiil are ot happy explain to him the problems involved with the fish ( which he will already know ) and tell him if they are gonna sell these fish you will buy all your items else where and that he has lost you as a customer.

As far as i no there is nothing stopping places selling these fish so if you dont like it shop esle where.

Alan

Oh and remember, It darragh's head on the line here so if you what to name and shame do it some where esle.

Alan

i have just received a message that explained to me in great detail why sellers of dyed fish should not be named on this forum .i fully accept this explanation . this is not the platform for such posts you should make your view's known to the seller and act accordingly.the forum i agree should be a fun and informative place to visit. any topic which stimulates debate is a good thing as we can all learn something.provided its kept within the guide lines of the forum as set by the admin team. and yes i do agree that no ones business should be compromised in any way due to a spurious post or thread on this web site

There is more to this than name and shame.

Why not have some terms and conditions for being a sponsor? After all you can’t claim to be a group interested the good fish keeping habits and take money or prizes from a sponsor who is doing something that contradicts your beliefs.

You may not be able to name and shame, but if it came to it you could publicly say this shop is no longer a sponsor for the following reasons.

Of course the argument against this is that you have more influence over sponsors by maintaining a relationship with them. Its a complicated issue, but the uncomplicated part is that this practice of dyed fish is wrong, its abuse.

me been a newbie and all dyed fish ??????? could someone tell me what thats about ???
how ??
why??

thank you i just found other thread on this subject . i cant believe this is true . i understand you cant name and shame on this site but what about a picket outside shops that sell this poor creatures ??? just a thought

funkychic wrote:

thank you i just found other thread on this subject . i cant believe this is true . i understand you cant name and shame on this site but what about a picket outside shops that sell this poor creatures ??? just a thought

Let’s not get carried away
As it says in the other thread, shops can get these fish in without ordering them
If this shop is a sponsor im sure they will offer an explanation

LB

Puggy wrote:

There is more to this than name and shame.

Why not have some terms and conditions for being a sponsor? After all you can’t claim to be a group interested the good fish keeping habits and take money or prizes from a sponsor who is doing something that contradicts your beliefs.

Agree because anything else is being a sellout imho,
ye can dress it up what way you please, dont want to be
sued & no name and shame policy etc.
But name and advertise the same shops on the website is policy???

ITFS is a promotional society, not a prevention society??? WTF?
ITFS is against Dyed/Tattoo'd fish being sold in petshops for profit!
ITFS does however promote and advertise such shops that do it if
they are our sponsors and we make a profit!

I mean c'mon


Save the PM's I know the agruments but thats basically what it
boils down to, end of!

The only way to deal with this is through education! there will always be someone willing to import these when people will buy them but when demand dies the trade and practice of dying and tattooing fish will end.

the real way to solve this problem is bring it to people attention and let them decide. and by pushing for government to make the correct decision for once (probably the only time they will make one to)

ITFS do make a profit as its made up by its members.
Every member gets a 10% discount in the sponsors shops.
Thats profit to an organisation who are against said practices.


I couldnt give a balls about Dyed fish tbh, Im not one of these
bleeding heart liberals whinging about it every week in threads.

It wasnt a dig at the your own running of the website Daragh but
what the supposed club stands for.
Get off the fence or shut up moaning about it, but dont say one thing
yet do another!

The ITFS and the CFKS are clubs which are operated separately from this forum. This forum is kindly put at our disposal for free by Darragh in order to let all fish keeping forum members communicate amongst themselves, whether they are club members or not.

It is up to people to judge for themselves whether they approve or not of the way the LFS run their business and 'vote with their feet'.
In this instance, if one sees dyed fish in the shop, they are free to highlight it to management and/or walk out without purchasing.

As it has been mentioned previously, the aim of this forum is to educate people and not to name and shame.

Valerie

darragh wrote:

Actually next person who wants to moan about not being able to shame shops or says the ITFS is profiting from this relationship, can start paying to host this website. It costs me €25 per month

Darragh

Darragh, do you use PayPal?
I would be happy to make a donation towards the running of the site

LB

John Gannon did you get a reply from the person in charge of the shop that you saw the dyed fish in?

the best thing to do is to wait untill the poster who said he saw dyed fish in a sponser shop to inform admin of the reply he hopefully receives from the shop.
it can then be left up to either the admin or whoever makes the decisions on whether to allow the shop to advertise on this forum,

Valerie wrote:

The ITFS and the CFKS are clubs which are operated separately from this forum. This forum is kindly put at our disposal for free by Darragh in order to let all fish keeping forum members communicate amongst themselves, whether they are club members or not.

Im sorry Val but thats like something a politician would come out with talk about splitting hairs for gods sake. Whats your day job Fianna Fail?
Your name is on the website, you promote your club thru/on it, you communicate to members/non members thru it and knowingly promote and advertise petshops who sell Dyed fish which your against (or are you?) all on here, but its nothing to with here because you operate independantly of here?
What are ye talking about Val?

Who actually pays the €300 a year bill is feck all got to do with it.
(fair play Daragh btw)



Valerie wrote:

It is up to people to judge for themselves whether they approve or not of the way the LFS run their business and 'vote with their feet'.
In this instance, if one sees dyed fish in the shop, they are free to highlight it to management and/or walk out without purchasing.

Sure we're free to do that anyways. Answer this so:
What is the Official ITFS policy on Dyed Fish selling?
What do they do about it?
Do ITFS Officially agree with promoting such shops that sell dyed fish as an ongoing practice in doing so collecting a 10% discount/bribe (delete as appropiate) by using their website that isnt their website but is used as their website but isnt their website!!! Yeah I know I couldnt figure out the double talk either lads



Valerie wrote:

As it has been mentioned previously, the aim of this forum is to educate people and not to name and shame.

Grand so but if your setting yourselves upon the mantle of The Irish Tropical Fishkeepers Society as educators of the newbies then they will follow the directions given, including those directions to the doors of shops selling Dyed fish which will as far as claims go die quickly on them (ehh ripoff) after having such a barbaric practice enforced upon them blah blah usual bleeding hearts speil and so and so.....

Essentially your supporting the practice by sending punters their way put whatever spin ya like on it!

ITFS members profit thru their 10% discount like it or not.
Are yis against the practice or not?

LimerickBandit wrote:

Darragh, do you use PayPal?
I would be happy to make a donation towards the running of the site

LB[/quote]


I would too its a great resource


stan wrote:

the best thing to do is to wait untill the poster who said he saw dyed fish in a sponser shop to inform admin of the reply he hopefully receives from the shop.
it can then be left up to either the admin or whoever makes the decisions on whether to allow the shop to advertise on this forum,

So far the answer is members vote with their feet, complain to the manager but they'll still get advertisement on here (no negative feedback allowed tho so newbies will think their great cause the ITFS says so otherwise they wouldnt be associated with their site, right?) and members can still collect their 10% discount/bribe!
Shameful imho

I mean would pedophilefishkeepers.com be allowed as a sponsor because its not ITFS's place to condem anything?

Loggser
for the record sponsors have been removed in the past for failing to meet standards and i am sure if there is a case this will be the action taken.

the problem is were people do not follow the correct procedure
Admin can only act when they are informed of a problem which should only be done via pm or Email

then it will take time to get an independent member to visit and verify the complaint.

at the same time admin will inform sponsors of the complaint and ask for clarification on their position once all this is done the appropriate measures will be taken

and all this take time

I would suggest that any member that does not like the rules, resigns. Very simple.

This topic has been debated and baited on numerous occasions and there is no benefit of rehashing it weekly for the amusement of some members. Personally if it was my forum I would lock the topic and any others started up to rehash the thread again.

There is an article here on dyed fish and anyone interested in this hideous practice can see the photos and what is involved.

I think it is a sad state that the most active thread is the most controversial, some very serious and worthwhile posts on FISH KEEPING go through here with no replies at all. Sometimes I wonder what people are waiting for. Another dyed fish thread perhaps?


Daragh

I second Daragh Owens suggestion.

i would also suggest that the article be made a sticky in Beginners Haven so new members can learn and avoid buying these poor fish and the trouble that can come with them.

Mickey

hi guys ..... i was in dublin today and visited a few sponsors stores and saw these dyed fish in 2 of them ....... now i understand the objections ppl have to them ... and i can understand how ppl can get irate and object to the practice of selling them ........ but my question is .....We are all adults , totally capable of making our own educated decisions so why is so hard to just walk past the tanks .... go about your business ....... and if you want to voice your opinions then do it to the person or persons employed in said store ?

I don't see the benefit of bringing down a very informative and helpful forum with posts containing a load of wot can only be described as " he said , she said " nonsense .....

Guys .. it happens , unfortunately ...... in the same way numerous other practices happen all around us which we may not agree with , but the mods and owner of the site are not the ppl causing the problem ......

look its just my 2 cents worth ...

i personally really enjoy this forum and have gotten loads of great advice and information from its members and mods since i have joined .

thanx for listening ( or reading )

martin

@ Loggser,

I don't want to fall into polemics as I am not a politician!

Nevertheless, as my last contribution to this thread, I'd like to add below the CFKS Charter which has been approved along with the Club Constitution :

The aim of the club and its monthly meetings is to:

- Build a Fish-Keeping Community in the West & Ireland
- Share experiences and knowledge with others
- Educate others
- Promote the hobby of fish-keeping
- Commit to good fish-keeping practices
- Support the Irish Fish Keeping Federation and the ITFS Discussion Forum
- Discourage the keeping of dyed fish
- Protect endangered species
- Have fun !

Regards,
Valerie