New Tank

Hello All,

First time fish keeper so have a lot to learn, i have a post in tank construction in the forum, we have built our own in wall acrylic tank 240 litres its 5ft long 10" wide and 36" tall. After failing water tests the first two times it is now working. We have 5 danios put in this week, and cant decide on whats best to go with a community tank or cichlids. Would the tank be too small for cichlids do they grow to the size stated in the books 8-12"! If we are going with a community tank what mix can we use to have plenty colour?


www.selfbuildardmore.blogspot.com

picasaweb.google.com/jollyman24/SiteProg...#5337456205272565202

Maybe put some dwarf cichlids in a community tank (apisto, kribensis etc) they show of the same interesting behaviour as their bigger relatives but don't get too big, and they add some colour to the tank as well.
Kribensis are a great starter fish (tank needs to be cycled though)
hope this helps

Hi ya,

Thanks for the reply tank is fully cycled and the pet shop guy has told us the water is more suitable to cichlids, as the water is hard but he can give us something if we want to go with a community. Ill have a look at the fish you mentioned thanks. Just looked at them there now they look great are they easily got around the south of ireland?

Kribensis are quite common, and should be easy to come by, do you know if he ment the ph of your tank? I don't know if the guy in the petshop ment cichlids as in african rift lake cichlids, they like a high ph.
Unfortunately I have no experience with these but someone else should be able to chime in.
What are your waterparameters, if you post them up you can get some help with what is suitable for your water.
If you don't have a testkit, it would be a good idea to get one.
The liquid tests are more reliable then the strips.

Not sure of the parameters, i will get it, He was refering to PH and said south american cichlids would probably be best to keep.

South americans like a low/neutral ph if I am not mistaken.
If that is the case whith your water you should be okay with a lot of fish, my kribensis did very well in a ph of 7.4 (bred several times) the apistogramma's like it a bit lower, but some of them would still do well with a ph up to 7.5 I believe.
Go for a browse in your Local Fish Shop (lfs)or even the internet and see what fish takes your fancy, remember the names and post them up here to let someone give you info and if they are compatible together.
Hope this helps

If you buy a test kit a master test kit is a good investment
API do one wich test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrAtes and low and high Ph

Excellent, will do that, thanks very much for your help.


Just if we do go with a community tank is this list below accurate, can they all be mixed happily in a tank?

www.justtropicalfish.com/Community_Aquarium.html

Hey there,
Well done for building that tank yourself!!!
It's a pretty good size to start with.
Just had a quick look at your fish list.Some very nice fish but i must say a few of them seem out of place a little:tinfoil barbs,kissing gourami and the plec.
They grow much larger than the others.a smaller plec would be a better option,like a few ancistrus for ex.
also the siamese fighter wouldn't last long with some of the tetras i'm afraid.
in my opinion i think your list is too big but what i would suggest is to start up the population of fish with the smallest and most quiet fish and go towards the largest(not so big it could eat the rest:) ) and more territorial.
Some of your fish also have complete different requirements as far as temperature for ex neon tetras and cardinals,very similar looking but cardinals do well in around 28-30degrees Celsius and neon tetras would do well at much lower temp,like 24-26.
For water quality,the easiest way is to check your tap water and try find fish that suit that water most and that you like of course:) .
if your water isn't at any extreme pH or extreme softness or hardness etc...most fish in the trade will live in it without much problem,as long as you keep it stable(good filtration/maintenance).

i hope this helps.
all d best,
Dimitri.

Usually African cichlids are recommended for hard water. Usually when the petshop worker says hard water it implies higher PH then 7. If the water has been in the tank a few weeks prior to testing then the PH reading will be inaccurate if you plan on doing weekly water changes. The average PH will be different with weekly changes compared to the PH of water in a tank for two weeks unless suitable buffering material is present. as PH changes over time depending on the contents of your tank.
Put simply a tap water reading is far more useful at this stage. If this is what you tested then great.

It is very unusual for SA/CA cichlids to be recommended for hard water to be Frank with you
IMHO the petshop worker doesn't know what he/she is talking about . recommending hard water American cichlids to a beginner is a bad and i'll informed idea considering Hard water American cichlids are generally huge, aggressive and not suitable for communities or indeed beginners, esp as your tank is only 240 litres, These fish eg Trimaculatum, midas, red devils etc would be hard to keep in such a tank unless they were alone or in a pair.

Also these are Central not South American cichlids, SA cichlids generally live in mid to extremely low hardness waters, many of which are black waters, ie acidic.

On this note I would highly recommend posting your parameters, decor , filtration and substrate type here for accurate advice from people who wont try to sell you bs, it may be innocent ignorance on the petshop workers behalf but it sounds like you have put much time and effort, not to mention money into this project and it would be a shame if mistakes were made because of bad advice.
regards
Jim

Good advise there from Jim & Astrid. As you are a beginner I think look at the community option, you can still add dwarf south american chilids to that tank also. Stock slowly at the start,even though the tank may show proper water parameters,its not exactly established and many fish prefer to go into an establised tank. Also the list there has potential problems, some of the fish prefer different areas of the tank eg. top,mid water, and bottom feeders. You need to strike a fine line with this aspect of you tank as well as deciding what type of decor and substrate etc as you will need to consider potential spawnings etc down the line. (Trust me it happens and you will be surprised!).
Also I would advise that you DO NOT buy any fish prior to reading up about the fish. Just because a local fish shop suggests it does not mean its the right one for you. What I always do is get the name of the fish if you like the look of them and tell them to hold them for you for a day or so while you research them properly. If they are fine after researching then off to the shop again, if not then a quick phone call. Its also useful to remember a few of the fish's names so as to research them in case the first one doesnt suit.

Also just because you have danio's doesnt mean you have to base you tank around them, you can easily get the fish shop to take them back or else someone on here may help you out. Just thought it had to be said as many new fishkeepers get 1 or 2 fish at the start and think they have to ensure those fish are kept. There are plenty of fishkeepers to help you out on the site here and dont be afraid to ask questions no matter how silly they may seem, we have all being in our first few weeks and its a learning curve.

Also many beginners get advised to go the livebearer route (fish that give birth to live fish as opposed to eggs), if you are going this route please remember guppys and mollies etc, will breed and can overload you tank before long. So from that persective ensure you have a proper ratio also of males to females. Ask the local fish shop for a steer on this but dont get too many females or you will be overran with fry!!!

So welcome along and the best of luck, ask question, get a test kit and post some pics!!
Happy fishkeeping.

Gavin

Hi Folks,

Thanks for all the replies is a great help to hear it all, i was reading through my book of fish last nite and compiled a wishlist so to speak, if ye could comment on this it would be great as to suitabilty with each other and water parameters.

Pencilfish
Angelfish
Mollies
swordtails
gouramis
tetras
harlequins
corys
killfish
guppys
danios (already in) Pet shop guy said they would build up the eco system for cichlids and would most likely be food for them when they move in.
Apisito cichlid
krsibinis cichlids

Right, im guessing this list will be cut in half but from what i have read they all seem to be ok with what we have.
The tank temperature is 24degrees, substrate is gravel with a bank of sand in both corners, its a fluval 250 green external filter, have a scba helmet ship, air rock and a couple of plastic plants along with one rock and a piece of drift wood.

The paramaters i will have to post tomorrow.Also last nite the tank is filled now with a week and i found a snail crawling up the side, is this a bad thing, i took him out, should i have? Do i need to have some live plants in there?

Hey,
That list looks more doable than the previous one:cheer: .
maybe killifish...there are so many and so many are more suitable to species tank,apart from that,mixing Apistos and kribs might be a bit tricky but you have a large tank...maybe the slightly smaller species like Pelvicachromis taeniatus would suit better.
once again the choice is yours,have fun,choosing fish for a tank is very entertaining i think:) .
Dimitri.

Entertaining and mind boggling! You could just keep on reading! The guy in the pet shop has also told us to only put in 5 fish every 5 days is this the way to do it?

i agree with you it can get mind boggling alright,between size,specie,feeding habits,water requirements,schoaling,single,pair...etc and some of them are a bit tempermental:S
5fish per week sounds good but really it's more size than number,you could easily start up your tank with a dozen little tetras.there are tetras like black widow tetra that are very sturdy,i often recommend them to start up a tank also they can be a little nippy:( .
always leave a week or two between fish introductions and most of all watch your feeding.
everybody overfeeds fish at the start and i think it's the most common mistake,killing with kindness:P .
let us know how you get on:)
Dimitri

One thing you should know , it can be tricky to cycle and 'break in' a larger tank with small fish. Too many and you've a filter crash, too few and ....filter crash!

one piece of advice I always give people starting off is to choose one fish species you really like the look of, and build around it. in my case I have a slightly larger tank and chose to go for medium sized fish (10" average) I chose the green terror as my centerpeice fish and selected fish over time that are suitable tank mates, This has worked out excellent for me.

It is difficult to judge from books though, in a tank that size some of the fish you have listed would look lost, I recommend reconsidering larger fish as an option as sometimes less is more. To keep a stable biofilter in a system like yours would require either many small fish or a few larger fish. I have seen time and time again beginners opting for the colourful tetra and livebearers such as mollies only to hit disaster a few months later with massive fish losses.

In a larger tank like yours and given that this is new to you I think mollies, killi's, tetra etc are a bad idea. Some may disagree but I have helped set up hundreds of tanks for beginners and have noticed certain trends in the final results. Beginners with tanks 200l+ who opt for small community fish, 9 times out of 10 its a disaster. I will be able to make better recommendations when you post your parameters. But right now I think , depending on parameters, that the set ups that would suit your tank size for best results, visually and ease of keeping are either an African cichlid, SA community, barbs and medium sized fish community, or a few larger specimens. These IMO would be the safest set up routes to take.

People often misinterpret small colourful common and cheap fish as easier to keep, When in fact spending a little more and stocking fewer numbers of larger fish can make for a fewer incidents and a more stable system in larger tanks such as yours. If I was setting this tank up for you I would stock either Malawi cichlids and maybe parrot cichlid (Yes the hybrids I know it's not popular here!) or some medium (8") CA cichlids with a group of barbs or dollars with a pleco or armoured catfish. These are just my 2 cents. For an example of my setup and others you should check out the threads in the 'photos' part of this forum, Great place for inspiration!
regards
Jim

Thanks Jim and Dimitri,

We were in with Simon one stop pet shop youghal at the weekend, and he had been giving us good advice regarding the tank, He had 2 12" cichlids there, and i must say im not a fan of fish that size in a tank We took too Kribs off him and three two spot gouramis, these have gone in with the 5 danios that we already have. The gouramis seem to be very shy so far and hardly ever come out, is that there nature? Regards to stocking the rest of the tank are we as well off staying with south american dwarf cichlids? We were hoping to put in some harlequins swordtails hatchets and angels also, would that work?

I just have to say I think you have been very responsible in NOT going for the bigger 12" cichlids, because with the 10" depth of your tank they would have to perform salto's to turn around

so good choice on the kribensis and the smaller staying fish

I can't find any bottomdwellers in your selection?

Hey,
you seem to have opted for a "community fish tank".
Give a bit of time for those gouramies to settle down but one thing is they do like a bit of cover.
Maybe you could had some decorations/plants but they should get better after a while.
As for the rest of fish that you mention,it should be alright. put the harlequins next and add the angels last,well,that's what i would do:) .
Enjoy your tank and don't rush it;) .
Dimitri

Thanks Dimitri,

Yea we are doing our best not to rush it, but we are just mad to see a crowd of fish in there, so far we are sticking to the 5 new fish a week! Gave it a 25% clean the weekend also and added some ocean rock and plants which the kribs seem to love. Only realised the other day that your not supposed to leave the light on all the time, the poor danios had a week of days without us knowing the wiser

Jolly buy a time switch for the lights, its best that way.
Only cost about 4 euro or less I reckon. Put the lights on ideally when you are in the house so you can see them then. Id only leave the lights on (presuming there are no special plant requirements) for about 8 hours a day now esp with the increased sun light in the summer.

You could even break the period of 8 hours up if you wished. 8 - 10 hours is plenty I would say. They normally receive enough light anyhow the rest of the time.

Gavin

Hi folks six weeks on since we cycled the tank, have added fish for the lastfou weekends, gave it a break this weekend, we have 5 danios still alieve were the first to go in, we have three striped kribensis, 2 2 spot gouramis, 2 pearl gouramis, 3 rainbows, (thats what it said in the shop, cant find a match on the internet!!)and last weekend we got 5 german blue rams no casualtys yet and they all seem happy. We took out our pastic plants and added real grass and plants, they seem to love them. The next step now is eating, they are currently eating flake and the plants!!!! What should i ask for in the pet shop regard to frozen live food?

bloodworm is a favourite for the fish, don't feed it to much (once a week) brine shrimp (artemia)always go down a treat as well.

post a pic up of the rainbows and someone should be able to identify them