I think it is time!

Hello everyone Ian here from Aquatic Village.Some of you guys may know me some of you may not.I would like to ask the opinion of the general public what is their view on Aquatic Shops and sponsors selling fish that they will not take back and rehome.Should a shop be allowed to sell animals like Pacu and red tail cats when they know it will grow to a ridiculous size?The same with turtles.

A dozen times a day i get phone calls from the public looking to dump turtles up here and when i tell them to go back to where they bought it they say the shop told them absolutely not.Aquatic Village has a strict policy we will take back and rehouse any animal or fish that we sell to the public no matter the size.....why dont my compettitors do the same?How can garden centres and the like get away with peddling ridiculous animals on the general unsuspecting public...i took a redtail shovelnose cross in the other day 30 inches plus bought from a shop down the road they said no when asked to take it back...i think in that siuation the shop in question should stick to bread and butter what do you guys think???We are formulating plans to build a serious of monster tanks for some of our imports because we love our fish....i think it is time that something gets done about this and i think the societies should seriously do something about this what do you guys think...
IAn

honestly most people shouldn't buy the animals in the first place they know that they'll never be able support them past a certain size. All these animals are is a commodity and nothing else.

I'd love to know what happened to all those baby alligators many years ago in a shop in town?

Maybe certain animals over a certain size need a licence therefore people who are getting these animals might know how big a responsibility.

Fair play if people are willing to take them back but i don't think most shops a geared up for anything bigger than foot. If people demand it people will supply it even if they give off an ethical facade.

I agree 100% , bringing them in and selling them is wrong.. end of and facilitating their return will only last a while until those accepting them back run out of space to house them so............ sell what people can keep, it is legal to buy and keep Tigers here but who can do so? If I want to see the Monsters of the Aquatic World, I will do so via you tube or some-such.

What will happen to these creatures if the Retailer taking them back go bang or close down, where will they end up?

Kev.

@ian, although i agree with the point it is hard to see how the societies can do more than we already do, such as advising against impulse buying and drumming home the message that these type of fish/turtles grow to an enormous size, live longer than a dog and can even be dangerous.
my friend joe mitchell has a fish house with a collection of these fish and some of them are 30 years old and they are in superb condition, he treats them as pets and they are a full time job. unlike the usual sized fish commonly kept, a great deal of skill and attention is needed for the tankbusters, not to mention huge tanks and pond type filtration.
i also agree that that any shop dealing in these big fish has a responsibily to fully explain the commitment/skills required and to be willing to rehouse/dispose of, any unwanted or badly kept specimens. it is commendable that you are offering this guarantee and it would be a great advancement if other shops followed this example or else stopped selling such fish.

Fish lie in a delicate area of balance in this.

One problem is that only certain fish get put on the 'monster' list, yet equally difficult to house fish are commonly sold (and some get large).

I was in a shop once where the manager was giving out about other shops selling Pacu..........yet in a tank next to me in the shop was a tank full of Sterlets and Surgeons!! WTF? Why are such fish not on the dreeded 'monster' list........and even more so in view of them being potentially invasive species.

One other problem that I often see given about 'big fish' is top of the list being "a big tank" (and usually cited with some arbitrary volume plucked out of the air.)

There is much more to keeping monster fish than having a big tank.....skilful fish handling comes a decided 'first' on the list (a big tank ain't gonna help a fish that keels over a dies within minutes of being handled incorrectly).

Does that sound like I am against monster fish?
No, I'm not.
I keep monster fish and see nothing wrong with people having the skills and facilities to keep them keeping them.

I do, though, believe that species with a potential of existing in our native waters need some form of control.

One species that baffles me is the keeping of Polyodon in a fish tank.......massive potentially invasive species that has demands much bigger than a big fish tank (non-stop Daphnia).
I wanted some for my public aquarium years ago, but there was no way that it had the facilities to keep such a fish.

Turtles....many of the sliders should have a ban on the import. Full stop.
Failing a ban, pet shops selling them should be specifically licensed, and that license should enforce the shop to display specific educational posters of the risks of invasive species.
Pet shops should also guarantee the names and addresses of those purchasing such animals.

The turtle thing has got out of hand. I am fed up of receiving e-mails asking if we will re-home them.

Cobras, Mambas, Crocodilians, Duck Billed Platypus, Tazmanian Devils, Tigers etc should require a qualified license (at the very least....if not a ban) to sell and to own or transport within the country.
Unlicensed trading should be a criminal offence (and, lets face it, some dealers in cobras and such items are not legitimate pet-traders, are not paying VAT or rental......as it is often in a car-park somewhere).

That license should only be granted upon the provisional license holder passing specified requirements (could even include sitting a structured academic course....and the tutors for such course are available!!)

However, I do not believe that many species need to be on a general or special license.

Still a big problem, though, is that we have shops and buyers who are not as learned as those who frequent the knowledge pools that we here can discuss.

How does one get the notion of not to buy a cutie little turtle from a shop that gives little info when out on a Sunday afternoon buying a new iPhone?
That cohort is likely to be the biggest when it comes to those who dump turtles in St Anne's park.

Ian

I fully agree with the comments so far but as Ian says "its about time".
What can we do?
For starters the sponsors of this site could all agree not to stock the monsters for general sale and only order specific fish for the people that they know can cope with the needs of the "monsters".

Secondly the members on here could actually boycott the shops that continue to KNOWINGLY sell people unsuitable fish and probably explain why they are boycotting the said shops.

It wont fix the existing problem but its a start.

I agree with all of the above - these simply shouldnt be sold to unsuspecting consumers or even to well-enough informed but bloody-minded fools!

One option (for the people contacting your shop, Ian), although a long shot, might be to try the old Sales of Goods and Supply of Services Act. The key piece is that goods must be fit for purpose - so if you sell a Red Tailed Cat to someone with a 50l tank, not only would you be obliged to take it back, but refund their purchase price as well !

It might be hard to enforce, but some shops might split the difference and just take it back, if they thought they'd lose the sale as well. (Of course, what happens to the unwanted monster after that might be another issue).

I think the Sales of Goods Act would be hard pushed to find a precedent in that to be honest.

The 50litre tank should hold water, but would not be expected to hold me and 5 hot model babes having some foamy fun.....and the supplier of the foam bath would also not be liable if my 50 litre tank doesn't hold the hot model babes (plus me).

or something like that anyway.

I think it makes economic sense(in the main) for shops to take back fish that have out grown their purchasers' tanks. For example a bala shark 2" in size will probably retail at €4-5. Now a 6" bala would easily go for €10 or more and sell much much quicker with the shop giving the ex-keeper next to nothing for same.

This is just a general comment.

Dave

igmillichip wrote:

I think the Sales of Goods Act would be hard pushed to find a precedent in that to be honest.

The 50litre tank should hold water, but would not be expected to hold me and 5 hot model babes having some foamy fun.....and the supplier of the foam bath would also not be liable if my 50 litre tank doesn't hold the hot model babes (plus me).

or something like that anyway.

ah c'mon, Ian - apart from he mental image of you and 5 midget contortionists trying to fit into a 50 litre, we're getting into "fit for the purpose for which it is intended". That's a bit more like buying a red tailed cat and then complaining it's no good as a guard dog!

If all else fails , there's always Joe Duffy :

"I thought I was buying guppies, but he sold me piranhas, Joe".

I suppose if we are really worried about invasive species or just fish and or other creatures that can never be deemed a good purchase for anything other than a zoo or a specialist organisation.

Then we could write to what ever government department and get them to ban the importation of such species unless people can prove they meet certain criteria and this will cost people a lot of money so they would have to be serious about these animals.