Poor quality fish

Wackers: I have the impression that since the new shop opened at long mile road the quality in the city center shop suffered. So much that I didn't buy there anymore since then. The other two LFS in the city center (the one in Capel Street and the one at the river), even though offering only standards, I found to be better. When it comes to the new Wackers, however, I don't have a single complaint to make. Each time excellent service, quality and advice. Thumbs up.

Dept of Agriculture recently have changed how they inspect the live stock arriving into the country( i think its a EU thingy) All importers will/can back me up on this.

When i first imported, you needed a licence to import cold water fish, with various conditions attached to this licence before being issued... fair enough, if released into the wild these fish would/could live in our waters or pass new diseases on to wild fish etc..
On arrival, Dept of Agri. would spot check the cold W boxes.. or some times not at all(once paper work was ok!!!)
The hard part was getting them to turn up on time!!

Recently you dont need any licence... but all fish must be inspected!! i mean all!! but they don't inspect them!! they POP open boxes!! they take the bags out into the light hold up in the air and put back into the boxes!! some inspection!!
I'm sure any importer has seen this as they stand looking at these morons in the freezing cold cargo terminal!!
They turn up hours after the flight has landed.. and just go through the paces of their procedure..
I had a row with them the first time i witnessed this, as they're doing more harm than good... to no avail of course!
Its getting so bad that tropical marines are being 'inspected' coming from UK(EU) !!! WHY???
This process is stressful for both fish and importer!!

There is a massive gap between hobbist and retailer, in my opinion.

The hobbist has no idea the work retailers must do to get the fish in good shape,... my rant above for one...
already mentioned.. nets going into tanks.. human traffic.. banging on the tanks etc..'NEMO!!!' the list is endless

Every retailer, i'm sure, is aware of their problems and doesn't need to have it posted on a forum.
how does that help the hobbie???

Dayo

I totally agree the fault firmly lays with the dept of agriculture, surely they should have facilities to inspect fish without traumatising the fish any more than they all ready have been on their voyage to the country.. if only we had more quality homebred fish it might make a difference to us all

I am not going to get into this debate about poor quality fish, but just to say no matter what some people post is regarded as a snipe at certain shops.

When the first part of the post started it was not meant to slate a certain shop but to ask was there problems with certain fish. The person who posted the comment also visited a lot more shops after he had visited the shop in question , and found all the shops visited in the same difficulty.

As a forum member anyone who posts the comment it is there opinion not the ITFS SAS LFKS or any other club. In my opinion there are some very good Aquatic stores in Ireland run by very good people. The one in the first part of the post is in the top five in the country but since the aquatics manager moved from the other store this one has fallen in standard , this shows that the manager was the force behind the sucess and well deserved by him.

Also when you read any posts there is always the same people defending or giving out. So can you all please remember this is about fishkeeping not personalities.

Now for my opinion the top five shops in the dublin area are in no paticular order. Aquatic village . Petstop Fish Antics Wackers .Fish Fanatics.

Just a point of interest yesterday myself and derek doyle tested his water supply for his fish house. It is usually softish from the tap but it was coming out of the tap at 8.4 to 8.6 so this will have problems for the shops also as for softwater species it will cause shock and damage fins and also leave them prone to all the common ailements.

The only difference with derek as his fish house is on a smaller scale then the shops, he can get on top of proper water changes and controlable.


So on a smaller scale he has a better enviorment to control problems which most shops do not.

Last comment i do not think all the shops are run by morons just people of different levels of experience.

Ok before all of you go off the rails that the water quality and pH go down the white porcelain altar and any more nonsense is written about the problems that LFSs face, here are a few scientific facts.

pH is temperature dependent. I am not going to bore anybody with the Henderson-Hasselbach equation or Gibbs' free energy equation but let's just say that if your temp goes up your pH comes down. Furthermore if you measure with a pH meter your readings will be even more out. There are plenty of sites with compensation tables on the net.

I have worked wholesale and retail in the ornamental fish industry and fish do get sick. Period. Cases of whitespot are higher during the winter month since the fish are more likely to get cold when the boxes they come in are left standing somewhere in transit. It happens. Not the LFS fault. As long as they are clearly marked 'not for sale' I don't have an issue with that.Christ almighty, would you all calm down. Ye all think that ye are the perfect fishkeepers since your fish are not sick. Very easy for anybody to say. the hard work has been done for you by either the wholesaler or the retailer. You home aquaria have all nice and steady water parameters and it's really no big deal to keep fish healthy under such circumstances. The fish when they arrive at your LFS could have and often will have been subjected to a temperature shock, oxygen starvation, pH shock and ammonia/nitrite. They will also have passed through several holding stations before they arrive here. Take a wild caught fish. Caught and held by the guy who caught it. It can take several weeks before they are collected by boat and brought downriver which can take a week or two as well. The fish will now be kept at the exporter for however long it takes to sell the fish. Now they either go to a wholsaler or if your LFS gets their fish directly from the importer straight to your LFS. OK this example is particular to South America but is similar with fish from different locations. Even fish that are bred in, say, South East Asia will go through several stops before they arrive at your LFS. The importer ends up sorting out the various health issues mentioned above plus the fact that most of a lot of them will not have eaten for quite some time since the fish will be going into his tank first where they are most likely to get sick. Of course the stocking density in an LFS is higher than what you will have in your home aquaria. That cannot be avoided. We all want to be able to afford the fish we keep and hence the retailer has to buy in 'bulk'
It's time to come off your high horses and actually realise what is involved in bringing fish to your LFS and stop bitching about sick fish if they are not for sale and your retailer is treating them for whatever disease they picked up.
However, I do have an issue with any retailer who couldn't give a monkey's and who does not care about his livestock.
And I would encourage to name and shame this shops and not the ones that look after their sick fish.
End of rant and would everybody please get real and face reality

First of all.
Gavin, I am a man of integrity and high moral code. I had no intention of returning to the forum.
I was asked by numerous people to return and as the ex Chairman of the LFKS I respectd the wishes
of my friends in the club and friends from the ITFS.
I `don`t need the forum. I have enough experience/books and friends to help me out if I need help.
I think as a person with a some knowledge of fish keeping I believe I have some duty to help out others.
Besides it is in my nature to help people.

Second.
I did not attack Wackers. I have no gripe with the shop or anyone there. I went out a few weeks ago for a
look and was very surprised by what I seen. I wanted to know were other shops having the same problem
as yous. I have spent a lot of money in Wackers in the past. If you remember I spent over €1000 on Tropheus
last year. I like the shop and would never attack you or your employers. Some people here including you/Russell
and Nessa have the wrong end of the stick and decided to jump on the anti Anthony bandwagon.
You are all out of line. I am the easy target now. I only want what is best for the Fishkeeping members here.

Finally.
I speak only for myself and not the forum or any of the clubs. IMO it is best for you and Wackers that you
return to the forum. It has always been a good shop with an excellent variety of fish. I hope you will
still serve me when I return to fishkeeping and come in with a wad of cash to buy some stock.
I know you will get it right, it probably is sorted already.
Try to see the post as constructive critisism and not just me havig a bash at the shop.
PS. Nessa. Wackers two shops were the only places I visited. I did not want to cause embarrassment by just
naming them and I cannot falsely accuse another shop that I have not visited.

Hope this brings clarity to the situation.
Anthony...........

Seany wrote: The politics here are ridiculous. One of the main reasons why I don't join the LFKS. If this is the way people are online, imagine them at a meeting!

Seany[/quote]

What are the other reasons Seany. How dare you attack our club when you have never set foot inside any of
the meetings. Everything Chris says is true. We are and energetic vibrant club with some excellent
members. It is a plearure to share their experiences.
It sounds like someone is bad mouthing the LFKS to me.

Its like the other day when someone told me the film Cloverfield was crap. I still went to see it and
totally enjoyed it. I judge things for myself. In my position in work I can not go on second hand
information. It would be to my detriment and downfall.

If you do not want to join then that is your business. It is a free country.
But if you decide to come along and judge for yourself then that would be even better.

PS. Nessa. Wackers two shops were the only places I visited. I did not want to cause embarrassment by just
naming them and I cannot falsely accuse another shop that I have not visited.

You said you visited several shops. you now say you didnt want to embarras them by naming them. Well tha is the first thing that you did. other posters say you visited more and found the same problems. You never said this in your post so is this now a case of chinese whispers..or you just wanted to embarras one shop in particulare and not the rest....i give up

for someone who is just off a ban you came back with a bang and started it all off again from where you left it. its boring now.

I have not got the foggiest what you are on about. I visited both Wackers shops. Others
visited other shops and had a similar experience. I used poetic licence so to speak and
said I visited a few. I cannot name the shops as I was not there myself, as I said myself
I never go with second information.
My point was that I wanted to know what was happening. A lot of people are having trouble
with their fish. I taught a professional place like Wackers might be sorting out the problem.
I have had no home access to the internet so I could not come back as quick as I wanted with a reply
and nip the problem in the bud.
This problem has beencaused by your and a few others.

Have you got any shares in Wackers? Why the high horse?
Why are you bringing up the past with my ban? Thats a bit boring IMO.

I have no problem with Gavin or Wackers. I will tell Gavin personally myself.
I bet I spent a lot more money there down through the years than you ever did.

playground

Whatever.

Anthony,

What are the other reasons Seany?

1. A Full Time Job.
2. Emergency On-Call Duty 2 nights a week.
3. Building My Own House by Direct Labour.
4. Completing my MSc Studies.
5. A Baby on the Way.
6. Recuperation from a recent Episode of Serious Illness.

How dare you attack our club

I didn't! What I was trying to say was that these threads are not exactly an advertisment for new members to join.

If you do not want to join then that is your business. It is a free country.But if you decide to come along and judge for yourself then that would be even better.

I fully intend to join in the future, but not now. I think its evident that I have enough on my plate!

I look forward to meeting you in the future, and talking fish over a quiet pint or 2.

Kind regards

Seany

...and the thread is side-tracked again. How hard can it be to keep the eye on the ball? Nessa and Anthony at each others throat. Get it sorted.

It should not bother you, I thought you were above posting here and sticking with \"specialist\" forums where no lay people or psuedo scientists were allowed to participate.

...and the bitching continues. I'm clearly not welcome here not matter that I even kept my comments to the thread and the rest of you had a go at each other. I can see that the Federation will be a great success if things keep going like this.

This is like comedy central here.
I explained my situation and I stil get lambasted by childish people.
Members here are afraid to post because they will be personally attacked. We need to
have a certain level of exceptable linguistic input.
I don`t care what people think or say about.
\"WATER OFF A DUCKS BACK\"
I wrote a fish post and it turned into a slagging match. Best to leave this post
alone and concentrate on fish keeping.

Ps. I still think we as a forum have a right to report poor quality fish no matter were it is being sold.

You're bery lucky on the East Coast to have a good choice of LFS. Here in the West we have to put up and shut up....

Thats the thing Maggie,if you shut up,then you have to put up.We have seen here in Dublin what can be done by talking to the staff and owners of the LFS's,and expressing your concerns or even just telling them what you want to see when you go into the shop.If they stock what you want,you will likely give them your money,tell your mates,and return to spend more.Everybody wins.

Dave.

tjhis thread will self destruct in 5 seconds

lampeye wrote:

tjhis thread will self destruct in 5 seconds
quote]



Rather the whole forum. Especially with moderators having a go at people posting and actually contributing something useful. Nice to see that Daragh Owens has joined the mud slinging department. No big surprise that people don't post being subjected to such crap.

PS. I will sponsor the first Federation meeting when the commitee is elected in the way of a metal detector at the door. I'd hate to see somebody stabbed or shot. Judging by the way everybody behaves this becomes a distinct possibility

Your definately back then Anthony.

Oh look...controversy.