New Malawi Cichlids Member

Hi all,

Just posted this to the New Members section and have had very welcoming responses. Didn't realise there was a specialist Malawi Cichlid Thread so posting here also. Hope you guys can mentor me over the coming months!!!

Recently renovated my house and fulfilled a long term dream of building an aquarium into the room. Long story short it divides a large room into an adult area on one side and a kids play area on the other. I'm not sure of the etiquette of the forum so I won't name names but decided to go with a customised 1500mm long x 500mm wide x 600mm high 450L tank sitting on a purpose built cabinet finished in white gloss. It's got a Tetra Tec Ex 1200 External filter and a 400 U. V. sterilizer, a Tetra Tec 300 w heater, T 5 Lighting unit and Coral sand and rock (70 kg's). I know this is probably mad for a newbie but I've an addictive personality and always go the whole hog on anything I decide to do!! I also justified the cost by comparing it to one of the expensive pieces of furniture my wife bought for the 'new' house which just sits there doing nothing.

The aquarium was installed a couple of weeks ago, filled with water and 'cycled' for about 10 days. (I'm getting into the lingo already) Today was D-Day and the fish arrived. A selection of 26 juvenile Malawi Cichlids (pairs and 3's/4's of each type) plus some sort of grey/black catfish type whose name escapes me but seems to love gluing his mouth to the rocks and has virtually cleaned/eaten all the moss of them already.

The guy who sold and set up the aquarium for me (including selecting the fish from the general preferences I gave him) is coming back in 10 days to give me a tutorial on general maintenance and get me going 'hands on' so to speak. (He is a fantastic guy to deal with BTW and if I'm permitted I'll happily name/refer him)

As I'm such a newbie and have only dealt with the one guy I'd appreciate the views of people here as to whether I've bitten off more than I can chew to start with (a bit too late now I know) and whether my set up is optimum for starting off with?

The other thing I'd like to know is what other fish I can introduce to the aquarium and when? My kids (who I want to get into this also) would like a variety of sizes, shapes and behaviour _style_s but I know from my research to date that Cichlids don't mix very well with community fish in general such as Molly's etc. What about grubers? Can I introduce crayfish? (My son loves them)

I've only had the tank stocked for 10 hours or so and I'm already hooked. I hope that not on;y can I get good advice and support from this forum but in time be a source of support.

Here's a photo.



Best regards,

Ben.

Very nice!!!

I would steer clear of crayfish as they have been known to damage fish while trying to
eat them when they're asleep.

Community fish generally don't mux with cichlids as the cichlids are very aggressive & will
bully more timid fish to death.
Luckily for you - there are African cichlids in all shapes, sizes & colours that will outshine most community fish. They breed readily & are full of character.

These are specialist fish though & you do need to be aware of that.
They need clean hard water & you need to be very careful about which fish you mix as some species are total
headbangers & will wipe all of the others out.
Unfortunately some of the headbangers are very nicely coloured & frequently available so you do need
to know what you are buying before you buy or run the risk of introducing a monster.

A few questions to see if we can give you some specifics:

How many fish would you like to keep altogether?

What type of community fish do you like?

Do you want to breed fish?

What colour fish do you like?

Do you know what species you have already? (If not this should be your first mission)


Cheers & congratulations on a lovely tank,
Patrick.

Hi 2poc,

I have a very open mind about most of the questions you asked. I like vibrant colours and variety is always good but first and foremost I want a healthy successful tank with happy fish!! Everything else is secondary including breeding although that would be nice to achieve and an excellent way of getting the kids into it.

I'm going to attach a selection of photo's I took this morning in the hope people here can help me identify the exact species. The man who sold them to me could probably do this for me (and he is coming back in a week or so to help me do the first water change etc) but I'd like to start building a relationship with Malawi Cichlid members here and guess this would be a good way to start? Unfortunately one of the fish died this morning so I'm a little nervous that all may not be well but the rest seem to be doing fine except for one of the smaller orange bodied fish which sems to be a bit groggy.

Photo's are below. I'd appreciate opinions on species type and any other observations people may have:

Hi all,

The small groggy orange coloured guy has also died!! Not feeling very successful less than 24 hours in but I think it's not a co-incidence that the two smallest fish are the ones which have died. They seemed to be getting some hassle from the tiger coloured fish so I guess that's life.

I did a water test just to make sure nothing is off the scale and everything seems to be Ok given the newness of the tank etc but would appreciate comments in case I'm mis-interpreting things:-

PH - 8.0
Ammonia - 0.25
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 10
Temperature - 25c

Should I do a partial water change at this stage or would that be a mistake?

Hi Ben,

I don't know much about cichlids but you should do a water change in order to eradicate the ammonia. I'd say your tank hasn't cycled yet (developed a colony of beneficial bacteria which recycle the ammonia into nitrite and then into nitrate). You need to keep a very close eye, as you do, on your water parameters and make sure there is either no ammonia or nitrite as they are both bad for the fish.
I am sure other people will come in with more cichlid specific advice ...
I hope this helps.
Valerie

Hi Ben & Welcome to the forum,

Valerie's right I'd do a 20% water change straight away. IMHO a tank takes 6 - 8 weeks to cycle.
So I'd test the water everyday in case of a spike (where the ammonia,nitrates, nitrites may shoot up)
Ammonia is deadly & should never get above 0ppm.

On the crayfish I have a tank of them & would advice not adding them to a tank of small fish, maybe when your fish are fully grown you could add one, as I have an adult male Red Zebra OB in my crayfish tank and he hides in the same cave as the big male cray.

The guy that set it up for you is obviously a professional (cause it's a lovely setup) so IMO he should replace the 2 dead fish seeing that 10 days was not long enough to cycle a tank.

ps don't let the deaths but you off, you'll be a pro in no time at all.

Don't Panic, as the hitchhikers guide said, but.....

there is no way that your tank is cycled. It takes at least 6 weeks to build up enough bacteria in the filter to support the ammount of fish you have bought. Its a beginners mistake and I made it too. Hell I still make stupid impulsive buys.

Now the thing to do to stop a total disaster is to get someone nearby from the forum, or someone in the pet store to give you a nice big wadge of dirty filter media. This should be put into your tetratec, at the bottom, so it draws the muck through the other filter trays.
If you don't do something like this pretty sharpish that ammonia will continue to rise and then turn into Nitrite, which is even deadlier to fish. live bacteria in dirty filter sponge will immediately begin to feed on the ammonia however and that should be enough to save your aquarium.

I'm very surprised that no-one here has made it more urgently clear (whatever that means!) about the potential disaster you have on your hands.
20+ fish in a tank feeding and poo-ing, will very quickly foul the water.

If you are within driving distance of Rush I will sort you out with some nice dirty sponge.

Finally, that is a very nice tank and I love the way it is integrated into your home, very nice job!

I assumed your tank had cycled given the green algae on the rocks.
It would be worth giving the guy that installed it a buzz to check it out
as it is possible that he set up your filter with dirty media in order to bypass the cycle.

The fact that you are seeing Ammonia though would indicate a problem… And fish do not just die out of the blue..
Like didhino said, sponge from a mature filter will be of help. I'm in Dublin 15 & can also help
you out if you live nearby.

Now onto id’s. Accurate identification of juveniles is always a problem..
I would recommend you pick up the aqualog book on ‘mbuna’. It is expensive but worth it.
Most of the fish you have there are mbuna (pronounced ummbuna) though you also have at least one ‘hap’
& some ‘Aulonocara (aka peacocks) as well as a common pleco.

I’ll id the easy ones first & we can try & fill in the gaps later

Mbuna:
The orange fish look like female ‘Pseudotropheus saulosi’ to me.
Blue fish with orange fins - male ‘Metriaclima greshakei’.
The black fish with the white fins is a Tanzanian Black (Acei Pseudotropheus) could be male or female

Haps:
Black & white blotchy guy is ‘Nimbochromis Livingstonii’. Could be male or female

Peacocks:
The blue fish with the reddish glow on its shoulder I would guess is a male ‘Aulonocara hansbaenschi’
(Red Shoulder Peacock)

Catfish:
The big dark sucker fish is a common pleco

Cheers,
Patrick

Hi Didihno,

Thanks for the detailed advice. The story is a little more complicated than originally outlined. The tank was originally cycling for about two weeks but was then fully emptied becuase the cabinet maker made a complete ar**e of the installation and had to take it away again for 5 days to repair before re-installing. The tank had been cycling for 10 days since the re-installment before fish were added yesterday do a total of 3.5 weeks if the two periods are added together.

I take on board what you have said though and will keep a close eye on the readings over the next few weeks. If things don't start to improve over the next few days I'll ask the installer (not the same person as the cabinet maker) to bring a nice dirty sponge as you suggest and maybe even a couple of replacements for todays victims!!

Didi has got it spot on.

There is absolutely no way that the tank is cycled and it was very irresponsile of the installer to put so many fish into it at such an early stage.(Providing he hasn't put established media in the filter)

You need to start doing some very frequent water changes and get a big slab of dirty sponge for your filter asap.

There are plenty of people here that would be willing to help so let us know.

We've all made these mistakes but the key is to learn from our mistakes and save yourself lots of hassle and money, I'm sure this \"Installer\" is getting a nice few quid for this.

Patrick,

Thanks for the advice and identifications. I'll keep a look out for the book.

Just finished my first ever water change (+/-20% of the tank) so will re-do the water tests in the morning and take it from there.

I'm knackered!! Was supposed to do a load of jobs today but this is all I got done. All good learning curve stuff I know.

Fingers crossed things will get better not worse.

Thanks again to you all for the mentoring. I'd hate to have to figure all these things out flying totally solo.

Regards,

Ben

The tank looks fantastic, but as has been said, you need to monitor the water parameters closely until you're sure it's cycled. Be prepared for daily water changes of necessary and don't add any more fish for the time being.

If you let us know where you live, I'm sure there will be a member close to you who can donate some matured filter media.

Hi Peter and everyone else.

Delighted to say my first water change seems to have gone well. No dead fish this morning and all seem to be circulating nicely.

Did another water test and the results are:-

Ammonia - 0.00
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 10
PH - 8.0
Temp - 25c

Any comments? I assume these are positive. If they are indeed positive do I still need to put some sponge into my filter? What readings should I be striving for?

After doing the water test I fed them for the first time. A level teaspoon of New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula sinking pellets. The installer is coming back in 10 days or so to install an automatic feeder but recommended a level teaspoon every two days before then. Does this sound appropriate for 24 juvenile Cichlids? They devoured the first amount in 3-4 minutes. I know over feeding is very bad and easy to do but will that teaspoon really do them for the next 48 hours?

I'm addictied to this hobby already!!

Thanks again for all the advice and support.

Hi Ben,

It takes a while for a tank to cycle (2 to 6 weeks, depending). Cycling the tank means that bacteria settle in your tank (filter, gravel, ...) and cause the ammonia to be transformed into nitrite and then into nitrates.
In 'clean' water from the tap, there is no ammonia or nitrites. The latter come from the fish's dirt, the leftover foods, decaying vegetation if you have plants ...
The idea of getting a sponge (or 'gunk') from another tank is to bring in these beneficial bacteria. It accelerates the process. Once they get a foothold in your tank, colonies start developing and progressively are able to process more ammonia/nitrite, allowing you then to add more fish.

I hope this helps.
Kindest regards,
Valerie

hey dude tank looks v nice i would defo get the dirty sponge into the filter asap
dont tink its a good idea to add more fish JUST YET let the filter cycle for couple more weeks i now its hard to do but its worth it in the long run...

If you go into A pet shop and buy some filter aid only cost about 8 or nine quid could speed up the process a little bit

hope this helped


john

Hi Tinfoil, Patrick and all,

Have had a great weekend getting up to speed on these great fish and learning very quickly how to look after them.

I came home last night after the required bank holiday weekend beers and just lay on the couch watching them for almost an hour. It was great!!

I took on board what PAtrick said about identifying exactly what I have in the tank and decided to photo each species/type. Patrick has already identified/named 6 of the species (hope thats the right term)but there seems to be 12 different types in total so perhaps you guys could help me identify the remaining 6?

I'll start off with the types already named and then list the generic descriptions I need help with. Here goes, I'm inserting links rather than photo's to try to keep the post shorter. (the \"X\" at the end represents the number of the type in the tank)

Tanzanian Black - Acei Pseudotropheus - X2
i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll285/BenEad...Pseudotropheus-X.jpg

Nimbochromis Livingstonii X4
i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll285/BenEad...isLivingstoniiX4.jpg

Male Metriaclima Greshakei X1
i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll285/BenEad...climaGreshakeiX1.jpg

Male Aulonocara hansbaenschi - Red Shoulder Peacock X1
i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll285/BenEad...aenschi-RedShoul.jpg

Female Pseudotropheus saulosi X4
i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll285/BenEad...ropheussaulosiX4.jpg

Common Pleco X 1
i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll285/BenEad...sh/CommonPlecoX1.jpg

And now the unidentified species

Brown and Rusty X2
i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll285/BenEad...e%20fish/BrowmX2.jpg

Brown Striped X1 (The other one of these died yesterday)
i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll285/BenEad.../BrownStrippedX1.jpg

Grey Blue X4
i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll285/BenEad...0fish/GreyBlueX4.jpg

Orange and White X4 (The smallest one of these died yesterday)
i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll285/BenEad...OrangeandWhiteX4.jpg

Pale - No distinctive markings X1
i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll285/BenEad...ale-nomarkingsX1.jpg

Pink X1
i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll285/BenEad...he%20fish/PinkX1.jpg

That's 26 in total.

In addition to identifying the above I'd really appreciate any comments anyone has on any particular species, what to look out for, whether the mix is a good one or not. What else I could add in in the future or will the tank be at capacity when these guys are mature?

Any and all comments welcome really.

Regards,

Ben

Brown and rusty look like Pseudotropheus Sprengerae, a.k.a. Rusty Cichlid

Grey Blue looks like Placidichromis Electra, but not sure from that photo.

Hello again.
Unfortunately the 'break' your tank got meant that any cycling was destroyed and the whole thing had to start again, so it was only ten days total.

Now some of this is very much an opinion and not a fact as such.
Someone above recomended adding a product to 'aid' the filter.
This is total rubbish (not slagging the person off, just the product), what these products do is add ammonia to the tank, which feeds bacteria and encourages their growth. There are currently no products available this side of the Atlantic (to my knowledge) that actually supply the live bacteria found in a cycled filter. No matter what these products claim to do, they do not supply live bacteria. The products that DO supply live bacteria must be kept refrigerated and have a very short shelf-life. The only way to cycle your filter quickly is to get a living colony of bacteria. A few people have offered to help you out already, please do this asap!

Automated feeders are fine and dandy, but are you going on holidays?
The best part of the day is the feeding frenzy and it is your connection to your pets.
In time these animals will recognise your approach and act like puppys waiting to be fed.
They will eat from your hand (if the food is suitable) and some of mine don't even mind me touching them gently as they swim around my fingers. I think using an automated feeder will deprive you of some of the enjoyment of your hobby, but of course the choice is yours!

The feeding ammounts are about right, or you could feed slightly less (a nice pinch) every day.
I am one to offer advice on this, I'm the biggest sucker for overfeeding my fish!
Be disciplined! I'm not!

Thanks Didihno,

I'll check with the installer to see if he inserted some filter bacteria or not and either get some from him or take up some of the kind offers received if necessary. I don't want to do anything without his knowledge or approval becuase if things go horribly wrong I want him onside and not walking away becuase I did something he didn't approve.

Do the revised water test figures indicate I need to insert filter sponge ASAP? I thought they looked OK!!

I agree with you re feeding. It is something myself and the kids will really enjoy doing ourselves. The automatic feeder is only for holidays and long weekends down the country visiting the folks etc.

The revised readings look perfect but they may be misleading as the water change has effectively diluted the amounts of Nitrate/Nitrate/Ammonia etc. This is why frequent water changes are important as they will bring your parameters to a safe level for the short term.

You should absolutely get some established sponge and put it in the filter. If the person supplying you with the tank/fish is anyway worth his salt he would 100% approve of doing this.

I know a few people who offer the service that you are getting, some are very good and knowledgable and some are terrible money grabbers.

I take it from your site name that you are living in Howth so there are plenty of fishkeepers in the surrounding areas on the Northside who will happily help you out.

All the best,

Peter.

Orange & white looks like a Yellow Melonachromis Johanni (I think female).
Very emaciated looking - I personally wouldn't touch that fish if I saw it for sale.

It could have been getting bullied in its previous home hence not getting its share of food so it could be fine.
On the other hand it could be an internal parasite which is not so fine..

Difficult to ID the others though I have to disagree on the Id of the grey blue fish as an electra. Not sure what he is to be honest but he doesnt have the black line through the eye that you see with electra.

I think the grey/blue fish looks like a cynotilapia afra varient, also i dont think thats a peacock looks like a pseudotropheus tropheops, which can be aggressive!!!!

Hi all,

Hope you can correctly interpret the following readings for me?

Ammonia 0
Nitrate 10
Nitrite 1.0 (This is the one I'm concerned about!!)
PH 7.8

I was going to feed them this evening but not sure whether I should do a partial water change first given these readings.

Would appreciate some speedy replies.

Ben

Yes a 20% water change would be in order. Test the water & feed tomorrow, missing a feed today is no harm

Hi Ben, i wouldnt feed them, leave it for a few days do a waterchange asap however this will only dilute your NO2 it will rise again, if you can get some safestart by tetra this will help, it really works!!!! keep testing the water daily, dont touch the filters for now.

Zale, thanks for the reply. Do I need to do the water change urgently this evening or will tomorrow morning be OK??

No do it straight away.....

Ben even a 30% would be ok, I would even feed them maybe twice a week until the parameters leveled out and leave the lights off so they don't feel as stressed.

Are you using a declorinater in the tap water. Sorry for asking, just making sure.

Do Just as serratas has said.

Hi Zale/Serratus,

Thanks for the reply.

Am so knackered after a really long day but gotta do the right thing so will drag myself up and start emptying 100L out of the tank!!

Yes, I am using a declorinator but will also get some safe start in Baumans tomorrow morning.

Ha...use to kill myself with bucket after bucket of water, now I use 5 meters of garden hose and siphon the water straight out the back door, much quicker.

Good luck with the 100 liters