Discus - White Growths.

Sorry folks, files too big to upload all together. here's another pic

Folks, Can anyone tell me what these growths are? Is this hole in the head? Sorry for confusion re prior post as pics didn't upload for some reason. Thx!!!

looks to me like a parasite infection and i would treat it acordingly to be on the safe side.... i once seen a cichlid that had white spots which developed holes and next thing it was bleeding, it was gone in no time because the damage was irriversable... thats why i say its better to be safe than sorry...

What treatment would you use Davy? Does anybody else have a thought n this? Ian?

To get an ID on the species would need a swab.
But, a general safe treatment is best advised.
I'd go for eSHa Hexamita or eSHa 2000 (both quite safe and almost the same thing), although I would more likely use Waterlife Octozin as I usually have such around the place.

Now, the use of Octozin or eSHa Hexamita does not mean I recon this is Hole in the Head, it is just that both are good broad medicines that are pretty safe for Discus.

Also, there is a chance that the general immunity of the discus has been compromised and those will help protect the intestine as well.

You need to do a good water change before use. Remove carbon or zeolites etc from the filter before use.

Be careful with feeding.....uneaten food will help bacteria or fungi to get a grip in the tank.

We have to hope that the vital organs of the fish are not affected.

ian

Hi yep id say hole in the head.. looks like the start of it... looks like "toothpaste" coming out of a tube
Ian mentioned Hexamita and Octozin.. id go with these as he instructed above... did i notice tufa rock in the 1st pic? shouldnt really be in a discus tank.....

Very good article

www.worldcichlids.com/diseases/Adamhith.html

I started treatment with the eSHA 2000 this am as had it to hand. As Serratus said it does look like toothpaste coming out of a tube. Will the med I'm using do the trick? I hope it does as by far my favorite breeding pair and this is the male.....just came on out of the blue...thanks for everyone''s input as ever. Just keeping my fingers crossed he' will be ok.

Serratus, what is the issue with the rock btw? Thx..

Hi EsHa 2000 wont do any harm but not specifically for HITH as far as i know.....
Also forgot to ask, do you use carbon? if you do have a read of the article i put up earlier...
The tufa rock is basically a lump of limestone more often used in African cichlids n sometimes with marines.It will over time harden the water.. i know you said the waters fine when you tested it but can you post the results just to have a look, also what temp is the water? Discus will live in a wide range of temps but are happier and easier to keep at 30+ oC, i myself would keep them at 32oC. Hope it works out whatever it may be i will keep an eye on this post as id like to know myself

Yep...get the temp up (min 30 C).

You need to also address the food.
Hole in the Head is caused by vitamin deficiency.
But, what you always get are secondary and tertiary problem from that.

There are advantaged in recommending eSHa 2000 or eSHa Hexamita for 'unwswabbed' diagnosis......they are quite mild medications and they can be mixed with each other with relative safety OR can be used quite close together in time.

A much more powerful anti-bacterial agent is Waterlife's Myxazin.....but I always give caution on recommending that for a not fully diagnosed problem as it must never be overdosed and it must never be used with any other medication (and that also means any other Waterlife Medication).

Waterlife Octozin is my personal choice of medication for discus. It is an anti-bacterial agent (and it could even be classed as an antibiotic as it's present formulation is a relative of Flagyl), but it will also deal with many forms of gut parasite within the gut and within the water.
It cannot be mixed with anything else, and so I only recommend it if one can be sure that no other medication has been used for a given period (and especially if the tank has been dosed with Myxazin !!).

Octozin is safe enough if dosed properly.....3 day course.

NOW.....the prognosis: I won't give a prognosis unless I have looked at a swab under the microscope. !!
But, so long as there is no attack on the main vital organs, then recovery can be good (that applies for any disease of discus).

Your food needs to have active fresh vitamins and contain not too much in the way of soft-digestibles.

Soft-digestibles are ones that the discus gut finds hard to work on: these include a monotonous diet of dried flake food or beef heart.

Such monotonous diets will render the gut susceptible to over-population of microbes and will reduce the effectiveness of nutrient uptake (remember discus are very large cichlids with a high metabolic rate).
Once the gut is compromised, then various organisms can then have a happy place to live and some may breach the gut and invade the body (such organisms include Hexamita and Spironucleus).

On the rock that Serratus mentioned.....it will also upset the redox of the water and the conductivity: incorrect parameters will mean that a discus kidney has to work extra hard, and that means its immunity will drop and more energy will be put into removing ammonia than put into repairing the body.

Ian

Hi Ian/Serratus,
Fair play to both of you for such advice. I greatly appreciate it. I have to say Fish keeping, while frustrating at times, is so unbelievably rewarding. Just the people alone and goodwill shown in here is remarkable. The more experienced teaching the less experienced for no fee but the love of the hobby. Believe it or not, one of the sponsors actually took the discus for me today, is examining a swab by microscopy and will treat appropriately. Not charging me a cent - just remarkabke!!! I'm away for a few weeks and I didn't want to risk treatment or lack of and the sponsor stepped in....

By the way, how can I supplement the tank with appropriate vitamins??? I'm going to remove the rock btw......

That's very good of the sponsor.

Although there are still a number a disease that cannot be identified by a simple swab placed under a normal microscope, there are still an enormous number that can be easily identified quickly by such methods.
Having a defo ID makes it so much easier to select the appropriate medication.

For anyone who would like to get into that extra bit of 'testing', good quality usable microscopes have never been so cheap as they are now. For little more than the cost of a half decent test kit, a microscope can sometimes pay itself back quite quickly.

Vitamins and diet:
Feed a varied diet (even a varied dried food diet is better than a monotonous dried food diet); use frozen food (defrosted first); make sure that all food is eaten in a short space of time; if you can tempt the fish to eat spirulina flakes then feed that as well
Discus are grazers, and so food that has been hanging around on the floor may be taken into the mouth: such food may have had time to have a colony of fungi grow on it, and that fungi can produce some pretty nasty toxins.

As for vitamins, the of many vitamins will decrease with storage. So, old food etc or food not stored correctly (tubs open for months, continual de-frosting and freezing of frozen food etc)will have a decreased vitamin content.

I tend not to buy food in bulk for these reasons.

Various companies (eg JBL) do vitamin drops that can be added to the food or to the water.

Never overdose with vitamins.

Remember that Vitamins are not 'good for a fish', they are vital if the fish needs a particular vitamin (and some are more vital than others). The exact vitamin requirements of fish differ from species to species.
But be aware that 'more' is not better (exactly the same rule for us humans as well).

Hope all goes well.

Ian