Devastated Discus

Hi There,
I'm so pissed of with this hobby and devastated at that. I have hundreds of euros worth of discus in my tank - but I made the fundamental mistake of adding a new yellow Asian discus to my tank of Stendkers and European strains. I have been told this makes no difference but it does.....

This happened me a few years back when I found out to my cost (emotional and financial). My gorgeous Europeans are now all sick looking, cramped up on top of each other in a top corner of my tank, all blackening by the minute....lethargical, not eating, turning dark...

I'm almost sure it's discus flu....a myth my ass...

Water parameters are perfect and new yellow discus is unaffected....

I'm looking at 550e of discus just withering......all happened within the last 12 hours and 5 days after adding the new guy...

The yellow discus was in quarantine for a fortnight in the Lfs before I took it home and added it directly to my tank...


I'm an idiot...if they die, I will be giving my tank and remaining stock away for free.....

Anyone have any ideas for me to treat what I recognize as discus flu??

Thanks....

Really sorry to hear that pal,
Have to say my heart goes out to you,
I've been toying with the thought of discus but it's
Story's like these that put me off,
I'm sorry I can't help you but hopefully someone can.
Chin up pal!

Very sorry to hear. Can your local shop take the fish back or do you have any access to quarantine?

Thanks Angle....discus plague....I'm so fed up....all the care, attention, time, money and I'm lured in by a yellow guy....b**ll*x

Very sorry to hear this.

To recommend any attempt at proper treatment, we need to be certain of what the problem really is.
The symptoms described are general symptoms of many illnesses in discus.

I would not put this down to being "discus flu" yet as there is no evidence of what exactly is wrong with your fish.

A few questions...
do you have any pics of the fish before becoming ill, and photos of the ill fish?
how long have you had the stendker discus?

(there would be more, but we'll leave them at that for now).

Things that I would look out for......mucus peeling off the body (except for mucus near the pectoral fins perhaps?).

How are the gills extended?

If you can get the faeces to someone who can ID stuff in faeces, then get it under a microscope (it may be an internal parasite).

Now....what to do? difficult without a full diagnosis, but there are a few things to do in any case:
have temp at 28C (do not raise it if it is near or higher than temp);
do several good partial water changes and use Tetra AquaSafe as the conditioner (forget any other....Tetra AquaSafe is simply the best);
Clean (safely) the filter media;
Vacuum any gravel;
Add some ammonia adsorbing zeolites to the filter and filter like mad for half a day.
Add additional aeration.
Add some filter floss to the filter (a diatom filter is better....but a few euro for filter from any shop vs uber money for diatom filter which is difficult to find?...easy choice: filter floss).

Then treatment.....????? without a diagnosis, this is difficult to recommend. But without a diagnosis I would reach for one of 2 off-the-shelf products (in suspicion of a bacterial infection in view of no other data)

Octozin (by Waterlife) is a good anti-bacterial for discus....it does not harm the filter bacteria and will also act on some internal parasites.

Sodium nifurstyrenate is a potent aerobic, anaerobic, gram-negative and gram-positive anti-bacterial agent.
It does, though, destroy your biological filtration.
It can be bought off-the-shelf in the form of JBL Furanol 2.

Ian

igmillichip wrote:

Very sorry to hear this.

To recommend any attempt at proper treatment, we need to be certain of what the problem really is.
The symptoms described are general symptoms of many illnesses in discus.

I would not put this down to being "discus flu" yet as there is no evidence of what exactly is wrong with your fish.

A few questions...
do you have any pics of the fish before becoming ill, and photos of the ill fish?
how long have you had the stendker discus?

(there would be more, but we'll leave them at that for now).

Things that I would look out for......mucus peeling off the body (except for mucus near the pectoral fins perhaps?).

How are the gills extended?

If you can get the faeces to someone who can ID stuff in faeces, then get it under a microscope (it may be an internal parasite).

Now....what to do? difficult without a full diagnosis, but there are a few things to do in any case:
have temp at 28C (do not raise it if it is near or higher than temp);
do several good partial water changes and use Tetra AquaSafe as the conditioner (forget any other....Tetra AquaSafe is simply the best);
Clean (safely) the filter media;
Vacuum any gravel;
Add some ammonia adsorbing zeolites to the filter and filter like mad for half a day.
Add additional aeration.
Add some filter floss to the filter (a diatom filter is better....but a few euro for filter from any shop vs uber money for diatom filter which is difficult to find?...easy choice: filter floss).

Then treatment.....????? without a diagnosis, this is difficult to recommend. But without a diagnosis I would reach for one of 2 off-the-shelf products (in suspicion of a bacterial infection in view of no other data)

Octozin (by Waterlife) is a good anti-bacterial for discus....it does not harm the filter bacteria and will also act on some internal parasites.

Sodium nifurstyrenate is a potent aerobic, anaerobic, gram-negative and gram-positive anti-bacterial agent.
It does, though, destroy your biological filtration.
It can be bought off-the-shelf in the form of JBL Furanol 2.

Ian

Ian you're a gentleman. I posted pics of my more than healthy fish about 3 days ago...my new pale yellow discus thread. I have the others for a min of 6 months with my newest being blue diamonds from discus Killester 2 months back - they have been sure strong as you'll see from the pics... I will try the octozin for sure....brian

JohnH wrote:

I'm with Ian on the Octozin, a really good product.

John

Thanks John..fingers crossed..

Do your self a favour if you can,
Get a camera and up load the best pictures or video in the state they are right
Now!
That way the likes of Ian can make a more informed decision on what to do.
In all fairness,this guy Ian has probably forgotten more about fish keeping
Than some will ever know!
It would be in the best interests of your fish!

The Octozin is a safe starter. It may not do the trick (if the problem is not treatable by it), but I have used it since for decades as my standard stand-by discus treatment.

I know it isn't easy to take photos of ill fish, but if your heart can get you to do that then it may help (it may not....I can't guarantee anything).

I'm not too sure which LFS you are near, and I can't speak for any of them but I do know that Aquatic Village and SeaHorse have microscopes and they may (??) look at a fresh bit of faeces for you to see if there is a major infestation of parasites (they won't be able to see any specific bacterial infection though as that needs a lab to incubate a culture).

ian

anglecichlid wrote:

Do your self a favour if you can,
Get a camera and up load the best pictures or video in the state they are right
Now!
That way the likes of Ian can make a more informed decision on what to do.
In all fairness,this guy Ian has probably forgotten more about fish keeping
Than some will ever know!
It would be in the best interests of your fish!

You must have hit your submit button before I did.

Just out of interest what size is the new discus compared to the others ?
I have had Discus act weird from being stressed after introducing a new one.
It turned out when lights were off he was causing mayham in the tank.
As said though a few pictures would be nice to get a look at them.
I alway add more air to a tank first thing if i see fish at the top all together and stop feeding for a day or 2 and turn the lights of and test water daily and small water changes.

Well this hobby takes the biscuit...you will all know how pissed I was with my discus problem, well I found the problem....

Bit of a story. In short. Bought a nano tank for my 7 year old. Took thermometer out of main discus display tank and put it into nano to ensure temp was ok (heater I bought with the nano didn't have specific temp control, just in middle of dial was supposed to be 21c and you have to move it up in increments but you don't know what exact temp your moving it to if you get my drift). Anyway, have had thermometer in main tank for 3 years and this was the first time I ever took it out. 3 days out of display tank and forgot I removed it.


Tested all parameters in main tank and no issues as I mentioned. Went to do large water change before treating tank with octozin as suggested by John and Ian etc.... Noticed straight away the water in display tank was freezing!!!!!! Went and got thermometer out of nano and put it back in display. 17c!!!!!! My f***ing heater had blown!!!!

So in the 3 days the thermometer was out of the tank and for the very first time ever, the heater clapped out....what are the chances of this?? I tested everything but missed the most basic....the temperature of my tank...

Went to my Lfs and they gave me a replacement heater straight away...I only changed the blown heater 11 months ago as was paranoid the old one could blow at some stage...the 11 month of one gave out....very decent folk in the shop and replaced it without a question.....let me know if I can mention the store as not sponsors but great guys.....

Took cold water out of tank, added bucket loads of hot water and tank is slowly rising back to 28c.....

I really hope my discus will recover???? They are looking better already but fingers crossed....

Discus plague my ass....I'm the ass!!! I missed the most basic parameters of all!!!

What's the chances......

Brian.

Man its always the last thing you think of he he.Make sure and take the temperature back slowly i would suggest letting the heater do the work so its rises slowly.I would think you will be good.I really hope all works out for you:-)Keep us posted and do yourself a favour glue the temp indicator to the tank to stop you removing it again he he.whats the chances the heater breaks when ya do it.But never forget murphys law

Here's hoping they make a full recovery. Nasty timing on the heater failure

I guess we didn't ask to see a pic of the thermometer.

Anyway, the problem identified.......but still do as I mentioned earlier.....water change and Octozin and Tetra AquaSafe.

ian

igmillichip wrote:

I guess we didn't ask to see a pic of the thermometer.

Anyway, the problem identified.......but still do as I mentioned earlier.....water change and Octozin and Tetra AquaSafe.

ian

Really Ian? Do you think the 11 degree drop in normal temp would warrant treatment of the whole tank with Octozin? Could you explain your thinking? I'll def take ur advice but would like to understand it if possible? Thanks as ever...Brian

happy for ya. it's not even just the cost, it's the time and effort put into keeping them content and healthy and then losing them all in one go that's so galling

LemonJelly wrote:

happy for ya. it's not even just the cost, it's the time and effort put into keeping them content and healthy and then losing them all in one go that's so galling

For sure Lemon.....fish tanks are treasure chests that we all just keep adding and adding to!! Money and reason get thrown out the window!!

Gonefishy wrote:

igmillichip wrote:

I guess we didn't ask to see a pic of the thermometer.

Anyway, the problem identified.......but still do as I mentioned earlier.....water change and Octozin and Tetra AquaSafe.

ian

Really Ian? Do you think the 11 degree drop in normal temp would warrant treatment of the whole tank with Octozin? Could you explain your thinking? I'll def take ur advice but would like to understand it if possible? Thanks as ever...Brian

I do. If only for a short time, then all things should be OK.

The octozin is not going to harm the fish (you'd have to really overdose to do that).

When the temperature drops the immunity of the fish lowers. The fish will also be stressed. The quality of the water will deteriorate after the temp drop and also from stressed fish (stressed fish can cause a rapid deterioration in water quality....especially if any mucus is shed).

So...Octozin.....as an anti-bacterial and anti-intestinal parasite agent.....discus may succumb to those problems when stressed.

AquaSafe....well you need to do a water change and so that needs a conditioner, but AquaSafe has the added benefit of Vitamin B1 and various agents to help protect the mucus.

I am not a fan of needless wasting of money or in needless "preventive Medication".....but this case is different as the fish could be stressed.

If the signs of stress continue for a few days then I would also advise a varied diet to make sure that they get the vitamins they need.

ian

igmillichip wrote:

Gonefishy wrote:

igmillichip wrote:

I guess we didn't ask to see a pic of the thermometer.

Anyway, the problem identified.......but still do as I mentioned earlier.....water change and Octozin and Tetra AquaSafe.

ian

Really Ian? Do you think the 11 degree drop in normal temp would warrant treatment of the whole tank with Octozin? Could you explain your thinking? I'll def take ur advice but would like to understand it if possible? Thanks as ever...Brian

I do. If only for a short time, then all things should be OK.

The octozin is not going to harm the fish (you'd have to really overdose to do that).

When the temperature drops the immunity of the fish lowers. The fish will also be stressed. The quality of the water will deteriorate after the temp drop and also from stressed fish (stressed fish can cause a rapid deterioration in water quality....especially if any mucus is shed).

So...Octozin.....as an anti-bacterial and anti-intestinal parasite agent.....discus may succumb to those problems when stressed.

AquaSafe....well you need to do a water change and so that needs a conditioner, but AquaSafe has the added benefit of Vitamin B1 and various agents to help protect the mucus.

I am not a fan of needless wasting of money or in needless "preventive Medication".....but this case is different as the fish could be stressed.

If the signs of stress continue for a few days then I would also advise a varied diet to make sure that they get the vitamins they need.

ian

Understood and thanks so much.......Brian.

I bet you love your new yellow again haha poor little fish getting stick for doing nothing

ha ha so true you owe him loads of love after accusing him of ruining it all he he.

ceech wrote:

ha ha so true you owe him loads of love after accusing him of ruining it all he he.

I sure do....have my wife feeling totally guilty also for accusing the yellow guy and in quick succession me of making all our fish sick!!! He's getting special feeds as a token of our apologies!!! Ha ha ......

How are the discus Brian, hope they're doing well...

Cheers

go
kden rule if it aint skenker dint buy it,same happenwd to mine whwn I added an asuan to my sskendker,i waslucky that I had a bird medicine called doxycilne,a treated d tank wit that a it worked for.its a wormer a was unsure of a dise for fish so just tryed one drop a done 50% w change

JohnH wrote:

Brian,
Sorry - I missed the later part of your thread about the Discus.
I'm glad it was 'only' the heater!
I do hope they have now recovered with no ill effects.
It does go to show how much we all take heaters for granted - I once lost five Zebra Plecos through a blown heater. Because they spent most of their 'daylight' time hidden I never had any cause for concern - until I spotted one in the same spot for a couple of days...to have seen any was a 'treat' so I was delighted, until it became apparent it had 'passed on'!
Then, and only then, did I start to investigate and fond the other four corpses as well. Now, these aren't the cheapest of fish, as many will know and I was pretty choked about this.
If you can afford it, the trick is to have a second heater - set a few (perhaps five) degrees lower in the tank as well. So, should your main heater ever fail again the secondary one will 'kick' in and at least maintain some degree of temperature until you can replace the failed one.
John
ps Please do quote the shop which was kind enough to replace your heater, the Forum should be told of good acts - the problem comes when bad things are said about shops - if carelessly-worded, something might leave the Forum open for legal action - something we could never afford to defend. But...no shop is going to sue over kind words! (I hope).

John

Hi John,
Thanks so much for the follow up. Yep, I'm one relieved man ( that sounds dodgy but you know what I mean!). All fish seem to have recovered nicely and back eating properly. Sop was Baumann's in Stillorgan which is the closest fish shop to me. I bought my first tank here and Kevin/Stephen are really great guys. No question at all about the replacement of the heater which in this day and age is really great stuff....

I'm so lucky to be honest. I was so depressed with my beautiful discus looking so ill that I didn't want to go near the tank. I decided to do a significant water change because I reckoned it could only help but I honestly wasn't in the mood and almost forced myself To do it on the sat pm. If I left it until Sun which I was seriously contemplating, they wouldn't have survived. In fact, if this happened the w.end before hand I would have been away for 4 days....def would have lost them.....

Sod's law this would happen the very first time that I ever removed the thermometer from the tank but now feel lucky to be honest.....could have been a massacre!

Second heater being added this w.end for sure...also treating tank with octozin right now (what is the active ingredient btw, is it dimetrozole)...

I'm hoping I will get away unscathed but waiting a week before I comment on that one

Cheers to everyone that mailed and pm'd me btw on this as very much appreciated it - even though I was the idiot that didn't check the temp in my tank at the very outset.....

Brian

funny thing is though, next time you come on here and even just say "my discus don't seem to like the new flakes i'm using", you'll getting 20 messages saying "are you sure your heater is working?!"

this might be an idea though