Help with discus tank setup

Hi guys.
Instead of arguing between yourselfs and deciding who's right i need some advice in setting up a fish tank for discus.
The tank is a Evasion Horizon 100 (bowfront) 230L
100w X 50d 60h (cm)
lights 2-T8 x25w sylvania 30\"cool white
substrate + gravel(2-6mm)
external filter Fluval 405
At the moment i'll house 6 small koi in it for the next 6-8 weeks until i can put them in the pond with the other ones, this being kept in a tank until now.
I want this to be a planted tank for discus so i'll add a co2 system. So i have some questions:
1. Is the light to strong for discus or is ok
2. If i'll have to change, what lights you recommend
3. What plants could i use, just background, midground and floating

Thanx. Now i gave you something else to argue about

Hi, I'm setting up my first discus tank at the moment too, so I'll give you research rather than experence.

* co2 is imo out of the question (even DIY) for this set up, the lighting is too low and any inbalance between lighting, co2 or fertiliser(too much or not enough, in relation to another) is heading for a nightmare. Eg; if your lighting isn't high enough and your co2 and nutritional levels are, the algae will pick up all the growth materials your plants aren't growing quickly enough to use and then BAM algae bloom!

1) Your lights aren't too STRONG for discus but the spectrum is all wrong. The kelvin rating is probably too high to properly show the discus colours.

2) What you use depends on your budget and what plants you keep. Just google \"aquarium lighting\"

3) It also wont allow plants to grow as they need a spectrum (I think) between 5 and 7000k. Your wattage is too low for a planted set up anyway, unless you're going for java fern, java moss, some anibus, ect.

One last thing, koi(and goldfish in general) are dirty fish. You should really throughly hoover your gravel and do a couple of large water changes before adding discus. Probably didn't tell you anything you already didn't know but best of luck and glad to see you've the same plans as me. We'll compare pictures in a month or so......

Hi Pauly
Thanx for your opinion. That's why i posted this on the forum but i need specific answers. My tank beeing new the best way to start it is to put the goldfish in it to get all the bacteria started in the filter and gravel but i get some koi from a friend so thats even better. Before i put any discus in the tank i'll add all the other fish that i will have with them, cardinals, rummynose, etc. Thats why i need to know what lights to put instead to the ones i have (like 1 hagen power glo + 1 flora glo or other make, money no real problem within the reason). The T8 lights are comming just in 25w but they have reflectors that the manufacter says that adds 100% more light so it should be 25w X 2 + 100% = 100w, and i don't want to modify the lights system in the hood (i wouldn't be any good at that). I'll be adding some pictures to this tread as i go along with the setup.

Try to get some dirty filter media and put it in with your clean stuuf, it will dramatically shorten cycling times and is less stressful on your fish that you are basically gambling with. OK so who cares about a goldfish, sure it only cost a €! Well its a living creature too, and you can easily poison it in its own waste, not a pleasant thought is it?

Sorry to lecture but recently I have been thinking that fishless cycling is the way to go.

Hi didihno
My fault that i forgot to mention that at the moment the tank has just water in it with all the bacteria solutions that you get from the lfs but i added some water that i washed the filter media from another thank and the water i took out for the water change. I didn' mean to say that you put goldfish straight in when you set up a new tank, i meant that is good to get a \"hardy\" fish to get a good cycling in your tank

Didihno wrote:

Try to get some dirty filter media and put it in with your clean stuuf, it will dramatically shorten cycling times and is less stressful on your fish that you are basically gambling with. OK so who cares about a goldfish, sure it only cost a €! Well its a living creature too, and you can easily poison it in its own waste, not a pleasant thought is it?

Sorry to lecture but recently I have been thinking that fishless cycling is the way to go.

Didhino - I agree entirely.
I was shocked when I was first setting up a tank that the guy in the shop (not one of our sponsers) advised putting goldfish in then flushing them down the toilet when the tank was cycled!

I am Adrian's dashingly handsome brother in law & I am getting the koi for him from a pal. Also coming with them is the internal filter from the tank they're in at the moment so there won't be any cycling involved.


Cheers,
Patrick

Ah, thats much more like it!!!

On a side note I will be cleaning out an inmternal tonight or tomorrow night, it is full of gunk from an african tank if you want the filter sponge from inside it.
Collection would be from Rush

Hey Arabu,

Have you looked at plants with low light and Co2 requirments like Cabomba,Valissneria Java Fern and Moss etc etc.Im not a plant guy but they look every bit as good to me as any others.They are easy to grow and cheap as chips.As far as I know Didihno has a thriving Discus planted tank and uses no Co2?

Hi ChrisM
i was looking for plants on greenline aquatics website and they have sets specially for the discus tanks.

Didihno - Thanx for the offer but i have to get rid of my own shit. chrism was mentioning that you might have some discus plant setup with no co2? if you do could you share it with me? pm me if is for my eyes only.

I just started this tread and people are lecturing me already only kidding.

Hi Arabu
Sorry it has taken so long to get to post as the computer has been playing up.

With a tank that size I would look at perhaps 3 Discus max.
Co2 will give you problems. if your Ph is around 7 to 7.6 they will be fine.
Use the finest gravel you can get, personaly I stay away from sand as it can get compacted.
Lighting is not realy an issue perhaps 1 daylight tube & 1 actinic blue.
For plants a couple of nice Amazon swords and some Vallis spiralis or straight. Using a liquid fertiliser will help. Get the filters going and add some bacteria via a friends old sponge filter squeezed into your system, Then I would add say a couple of small plecs or Corydoras. bacteria need food, from fish waste!! Check your nitate reading and when it spikes at its highest and then starts dropping them the system will be about ready. never add your Discus if the nitate reading is high, as Discus hate nitrates. and watch watch your ammonia levels

Hi russell.
Thanx for the advice. For the start i'll buy 6 juveniles and wait for them to pair off and them i'll keep one pair or maybe two with an extra external filter. I dont like sand neither thats why i used fine gravel.

And now like i promised some photos of my tank
and i had to add this one as a tribute to my little helper that contributed to the tank setup my daughter EMILY

It looks that one of the photos just wont load so i'll put it up again. if even this time it wont load i'll leave it to that

Looking Good

You can also put in a nice large piece of bogwood. The trouble with getting 6 juveniles and waiting for them to pair off has it's drawbacks. You can get two that pair off but can't guarantee that they are Male & female!!! I have had plenty that have turned out to be females. only when they lay the eggs is it noticeable.There are a few indicators but not guaranteed, but not until they are of breeding size. and with a tank your size when adult they will be cramped for space.and not feel like spawning, The other point is getting someone to take your surpolus Discus from you,
Lets say you get 6 small ones at 50 euro each = 300 euro. you should be able to pick up a proven Pair for the same price. But don,t be put off Discus they sound hard work, but no harder than any other species.

Russell you are right about the juveniles but if i tell the wife that i spended E300 on 2 fish i'll endup in the dogs house, literally (my dogs sleep in the kitchen at night time so the doghouse is free for the night) but if i tell her that i got 6 fishes for the same amount she'll might let me sleep in the kitchen with the dogs

Discus don't come cheap, best of luck & keep me posted

Hi russell
Isn't the actinic blue light for marine tanks?

No , the spectrum is just right.remember Discus prefer subdude lighting.

I'm not sure what Chris is refering to with 'thriving discus plant'

I'm going to assume he meant 'thriving discus planted tank'.
Well, in a way yes, my planted tank is thriving, too much as it happens.
I'm growing Vallis, Crypto something and some leafy plat thats not doing well (I can't keep leafy plants alive at all).
The thing with Vallis is it takes over the whole tank, so every 6 months i do a complete strip out.
This involves exactly what it says on the tin.
All bogwood out.
All plants carefully uprooted.
All remaining root system taken out of sand(there will be a bloody spiders web of this stuff).
Weed out the plants you don't want, keep the good'uns.
At this time I tend to stir up the whole substrate in small sections, with tank aeration set to maximum.
This releases pockets of black goo into the water, which are pockets of anaerobic bacteria or some such thing.
Anyway commonly called dead spots, they are bad for the tank if left to fester.
Stirring them up into the water column is the only way to get rid, and any sandy substrate needs to be agitated periodically to avoid these dead spots.
Now carefully replant making sure to bed in roots.
Replace bogwood/decorations etc and let the tank resettle.
This is all done with stock still in the tank.
Give the cast offs (usually this doesn't mean rubbish plants, mostly good plants you have no room for in fact!) to anyone wants em.
Problem with my discus tank is high nitrates and a ph of 7ish.
Some say this is too high for Discus and I'm damn sure my crazy nitrate readings (40-80) are not good for anything.
Planted tanks are hard to keep clean, I find.
Poo etc is harder to access and I think this has driven my nitrates through the roof.

Right now my Discus are not too good, some are dark in colour for spells and all are stressed.
Also I'm noticing signs of finrot. So if I have time tonight, I'll try to change 50litres or so. In a Rio 240, thats a pretty substantial water change.
You'd know its friday, I'm rambling like Grandpa.

Hope any of that will help in the future Arabu, and I'll try to get pics of all my set ups on a thread soon.

I dont really want a heavy planted tank, just some sword plants, anubias,fern and moss balls most of them on bogwood or rocks, enough for the discus to have somewhere to hide if they want. i'm looking for a big piece of wood up to 80cm long if somebody has one i'll be interested in buying it for a reasonable price or free

Because I'm new, I,ve been waiting on somebody to say that the blue lighting isn't suitable but since no one has I'll advise you to google it(or in my case yahoo it) and decide yourself. Thats preference wise, by the way. It's not even up for debate which is better for plants

hi arabu...
my small experience with discus was not very positive. i got four smallish discus, really beautiful fish. they were a bit shy but i didnt mind because they were so elegant. the problem was that they picked on the smallest one. they really bullied the xxxx out of him. eventually he turned dark, stopped eating and died.
down to 3. then they picked on the next smallest one.....bullied him and it was the same story. then i was left with a pair. they laid eggs and everything seemed great, but they ate the eggs. then the male turned on the female and bullied her. i sold the m as i couldnt watch the constant fighting.
i think this was because i only had 4 . russell i'd be intrested to hear your experience/opinion on this. i think if i had a much bigger tank with 10 discus the aggression would have been spread out and not been a prob (was a 3 foot 180 litre tank). also maybe if i had a spare tank i could have separated the pair when the male got angry (russell can advuise here as im only speculating)
In short id say either get a bigger tank and keep a large group or get a pair but be prepared to seperate them. i have only a small experience with them, russell i'd like to see your thoughts on this. it could have been unusual.
all the best
fran

Hi Lampey

The aswer is Yes, The bigger the tank the better the success, unless you have a PROVEN PAIR!! Remember Discus are Cichlids and it is there nature to establish a Pecking order, If you remove the Bully the next dominant one will take over and so the cycle continues, Discus can grow surprisingly quickly. A lot of thought must go in to pre - planning and is not for the faint hearted, They are costly and losses soon hit your pocket!!!
For say a three foot tank being the minimum , you could stock 3 discus , This will leave an ODD one if you get two to pair off. Personaly I would recomend nothing smaller than a four foot unless you are experienced,
Gravel base should be the finest GRIT you can get. Discus like to blow there food off the bottom, also helps plants root.( Sand is good if you get the right grade? but can compact down and discolour) For plants, Amazon sword -Straight or twisted Vallis. and a feb Bulb plants. Bogwood for natural effect. Lighting should be subdude they do not like bright lights, should always have somewhere they an hide if spooked. say one densly planted area they can retire to. water movement not to severe filtration should have a reasonable turnover. The list goes on.

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Hi russell
It's that one of your tanks? It looks great. My setup wont have so many plants, i prefer just one corner with plants and the rest maybe just a big piece of wood i like the fish to have lots of space to swim. nice tint to the water, is that a blue light?

Yep it's my set up , There is a large piece of Bogwood in the centre that merges in with the plants, the plants have been in 9 months. Lighting: 2 white- 2 actinic.

stunning tank russ