Discus not eating - skinny and very frail now

Hi all,

I was in my local fish shop just buying some food and usual supplies the other day. I won't name the shop - even though they are not at fault or to blame for anything here!

Anyway - I saw they had a stock of new Discus in which all looked really stunning, healthy, brightly coloured and so on - except for one. He was very skinny and had turned the "stress black". The shop told me he had come with the rest of the stock, had been with them for one month but simply wouldn't eat anything. They had tried all sorts of food and he had refused all.

So basically I told them I had a QT tank up and running at home and they offered him to me to see if I could save him. I said yes, brought him home and he's in my QT tank for the last few days now. Still he's refusing to eat and just looks really skinny.

He's quite lively - in terms of swimming around a fair bit. I have tried Tetra Prima, small flakes, blood worm but he's refusing all. I have the temp at 30, pH is about 6.4.

Any suggestions on what I can do to get him eating, or what might be causing him to not eat?

Rob

Might need worming?

Valerie

Need a bit more info to diagnose a bit better, has he got any stringy jelly like poo? Any small creaters on the head?
from what you have said so far I'm thinking Intestinal problems hole in the head(hexamita) protoopalina or spironucleus,which are flagellates. I'd try metronidazol if you can get your hands on it, I had some and looking to get more had a mate that worked in a chemist and was able to get stuff for me, but has since retired so looking for a small bit to have at hand myself. Also a long bath first in trichlorfon(I think thats the name more commonly called clout.) which is also got from a chemist, It is risky trying any of these treatments at the best of times , and cant always gaurantee a success.
The mix is 250 mg of metronidazol in 50 ltrs of water once off and after 4 days change 50% of the water.These medicines are designed for humans. First off I would raise the temperature to 35 degrees over a period of 3-4 days and aerate the water well this treatment can sort out other problems that the discus may be suffering as a knock on effect while you are trying to source a remedy. Another way to inhibit problems is to start dropping the pH to very lows around <4.5, this has a wide effect also, this however is dangerous and needs to be done with care also when the pH is so low along with killing bad bacteria it will kill off the benificial bacteria on the filter. Its always hard to diagnose a problem as the under lying problem is usually hidden behind others. This however is only a guide as we dont know what the problem is. I would love to see you solve this problem but personally I think the chance of success is about 20% from what you have said and the amount of time the Discus is suffering. Also there is a treatment called Dactymore (I think thats how you spell it , that may also treat this problem but unlikely.

www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html

This is a link to trichlorfon, I wonder can any of the LFS source this?

Thanks for all the questions and suggestions so far. Below are some answers to some of the questions - remember as well the LFS told me he came in the same batch as the other healthy fish, and he'd been with them for approx a month (while the other fish looks fine). Not an absolute indicator I know - but worth bearing in mind.

No stringy poo, no white poo - no poo at all!!!! He's not been eating at all since I got him (Wednesday night) and the LFS told me he hadn't eaten in days for them either.

No little creatures, no flukes, no nothing (or at least I haven't seen any). I tried to inspect him as best I can (just by looking) and couldn't see anything like that on him. However his fins do look like they were nibbled or nicked or something - they are not the long and "healthy" looking fins I have on my discus in the main tank. (He is alone in the QT)

I can bring the temperature up and lower the pH a little more for sure. But I am really reluctant to add medication to him while he is so frail. I think any strong dose might be enough to kill him completely. At the same time I don't hold out much hope for him so maybe adding something will be the only hope???

As I said he seems reasonably lively but maybe despite everything he won't last that long regardless of what is done for him? If so - what would you guys reckon is the best medication (bearing in mind I might only get one shot at dosing him with anything)

Thanks again,

Rob

Good med that I used and cured bloat or hexa is flagyl it's for humans but I used it for fish. You may need to deworm if the discus is not suffering bloat hopefully it will recover soon

The fish is anything but suffering from Bloating!!!
He's really skinny at the moment

Yup raising the water temp to over 30 would be grand what I've done before with loss of appetite is to put liquid vitamins, blackwater extract and even sera activant tablets , feeding at the minimum if can get molted mealworms would probably good treats to get the discus eating more

Sadly when it gets to this stage there is little you can do. if as you say it has not been eating for some time and has remained dark I very much doubt if it's imune system can tollerate medication in it's weakend state. it would be open to secondary infections. going Black is a very bad sign, some say they can recover but the outcome is usualy bleak. Flubedazol will rid it of internal& external worms ,flukes but not knowing what the main infection is limits it's treatment. raising then temp does help but remeber to have plenty of airayion as high temp depletes oxygen. I doubt if it's H.I.T.H it would show, proboably some bacterial infection for starters whether gram positive or negative???
Sorry can't be of any more help. with out seing it.
Best of luck

Hope you get some luck with the Discus, Ive not experienced discus fish so I can't offer any wisdom but would say Russell is you man for that.

Gavin

Well he's still hanging in there! He's starting to return to normal colour now as well - the blue is coming out in him so thats a positive. He's been flapping his tail in an irregular way since I got him (almost like a mild "fit") and that has continued.

I've raised the temperature up to 32 degrees, done a gentle water change (water coming from my main Discus tank - which I change regularly). I've not given him any medication. As I said, he just looked too frail to give him anything, and as Russell confirmed I just had to make a choice that giving him anything might just kill him.

This morning I tried giving him flakes (broken up to be almost fine) and I tried from discus mix as well - but he's still not eating.

What I'm going to do is leave him as is for another day. Fingers crossed the poor fella pulls through. If he's still okay tomorrow, and he continues to colour up, I might try some medication then.

If anyone else thinks better please let me know!

Thanks again all,

Rob

Hang in there Rob. what I suggest if possibl is to Darken the Tank. no lights and if poss drape a blanket over the tank. Keep Airation high to stop oxygen depletion and slowly over the next few day gently remove the blanket a bit at a time so the light increase isn't to sudden and see how he goes.

yeah...careful with oxygen levels if water is 32oC

something to try, add garlic to the food it is a feeding stimulant for fish and has worked for me in the past on fussy discus, also if you can get your hands on the sera vitamins add some to the water couldn't harm the fish, but if its that skinny i'd be suspecting worms or some internal parasite
heres what i found may help
Internal parasites
A Discus can harbor internal parasites without really being ill, but in some situations the parasites will start to grow exponentially and can then pose a serious threat to your fish. Common warning signs are emaciation and white feces. It can be hard to diagnose exactly which parasites that is responsible without performing an autopsy, but many different parasites are fortunately sensitive to Metronidazole (Flagyl) treatment. Increasing the water temperature and providing additional aeration is also recommended. If your Discus is still eating, you can prepare a solution of 200 ml water and 10 ml liquid Flagyl and soak its favorite food in it, e.g. live worms or larvae, for about one hour. Feed your Discus medicated food every 2-3 days for 10 days. If your Discus has stopped eating it is much harder to medicate it since you will have to force feed it using a syringe without the needle. Prepare a mixture of one part liquid Flagyl, two parts Liquid fry food and three parts water. The liquid fry food is there to prevent the fish from starving to death while you treat it. Add the mixture to a syringe and place your Discus on a wet towel. Use the syringe to force 2 ml down the fish's throat and wait for it to swallow before you return it to the aquarium. It will expel a lot of the mixture through its mouth and gills, but at least a bit of it will be swallowed. You need to feed your fish the medication twice a day until it starts to recover. Being exposed to this type of treatment is naturally always highly stressful for a fish, especially one that is already weakened by parasites.

I recall doing this for my sick arowana, I took about 10 garlic cloves and mixed them up in a juicer and applied the liquid to the 75 gallon treatment tank along with blackwater extract and coarse salt , temp at 31 may work with discus with less dosage in a smaller tank

I don't think forcing a srynge down it's throat ( not literaly) would benefit it in it's already weakend state!!!!!!!!!!

Well I don't know what to make of this - he's still hanging in there. His colouring has improved but he's gradually becoming less and less energetic. I've tried feeding him flakes, Tetra Prima, Bloodworms - to no avail. He just doesn't eat anything.

I've done several small and gentle water changes (always using water from my main Discus tank) just to clear off the un-eaten food at the bottom of the tank.

The water temp is up at 32 all the time - and I have a little pump pushing air bubbles into the water just to keep it aerated.

I've kept the tank dark and only had the light on for a few hours tops most days.

I started treating him on Sunday with a combination of API Malafix - Anti Bacterial Treatment and Interpet Anti Internal Bacteria No.9. He didn't respond to either treatment. I picked them because I felt they were mild enough to not kill him.

I think in his weakened state I will have to risk giving him a final one, and only one, dose of some medication, otherwise he will just slowly fade away and die due to lack of eating anything.

There are no obvious signs of anything wrong with the fish in terms of stringy poo, worms, or anything attaching themselves to him. No white spots. Nothing evident except for the fins are slightly nibbled, and he is extremely skinny.

All suggestions welcome...

Thanks.

Is he a young or old fish.....? coz if old could be some problem that just cant be helped its seems you have done all yo can this could be out of ur control i feel.

Alan

alkiely wrote:

Is he a young or old fish.....? coz if old could be some problem that just cant be helped its seems you have done all yo can this could be out of ur control i feel.

Alan

Good point - I hadn't mentioned the fact that he's a relatively young Discus (a Blue Diamond). I'd say he's about 3 to 4 months judging by size but it's hard to guess sometimes.

Have you any idea of the quality of water he was in before you got him

Is it possible to post a pic of him?
I still think its intestinal flagellates. Only option I'd try now is to try get some metronidazol mix it up into a solution with food fill up a syringe and force feed him with it. I know this is hard to do, but sounds like he is on his way out either way. Last shot in the next few days from the sound of it.

By the sound of things he hasnt eatin in quite a while it is the last chance saloon its worth a shot maybe the kick start he needs......

I'm assuming the quality of the water before I got him was okay for a number of reasons:
1) He wasn't the only fish they got in that delivery batch
2) All other fish seemed really healthy in the shop
3) The LFS had already segregated him off from the other fish into his own tank by the time I had gotten in to see him.

So I really don't think it was the water quality - again I can't be 100% certain but have to rule it out of the possible causes of the problem for now (in my humble opinion)

Zoom wrote:

Is it possible to post a pic of him?
I still think its intestinal flagellates. Only option I'd try now is to try get some metronidazol mix it up into a solution with food fill up a syringe and force feed him with it. I know this is hard to do, but sounds like he is on his way out either way. Last shot in the next few days from the sound of it.

I haven't used Metronidazol before so I'll have to get it tomorrow. Shouldn't be that hard to get, is it?

I'll resort to force feeding him tomorrow with the syringe.

DO you guys think that Bloodworm (mixed up and liquified) is the best thing to (force) feed him now?

Its worth a go at this stage try any thing you can think off......... i mean anything

Did ur lfs stay anything about the delivery was there a problem with it anything strange?

If you didnt ask id ask them you could be missing something there

If it was my discus I would do worm treatment first of all. Example wormer plus. Repeat treatment after 5 days. I wouldn't raise temp. more than 30C and give plenty of oxygen. While treating do water changes every day (10-20%). Only after worm treatment course I would treat with antibiotic (broad spectrum). I prefer one single antibiotic at the time instead or complex medicament treatment. Antibiotic treatment should be carried on for at least 7 days, doing water change after 3 days and toping up medicament (not to under dose!). No food should be given till treatment is finished. If you treating fish that has internal parasites, you are wasting time and loosing chances to cure fish. During treatment water has to be perfect and without organic matter (food) because most of drugs are less efficient when they react with organic substances in the water. I have antibiotic and wormer plus, if you can't get it immediately and you still need it I can post it to you or you can call and collect it from me. I am in Greystones, Co Wicklow. Hope, it helps.