Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)
Hi,
John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.
I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.
With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.
I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.
If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.
I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.
I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.
Thank you
Darragh Sherwin
Discus not eating - skinny and very frail now
- Chief Robert (Chief Robert)
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I was in my local fish shop just buying some food and usual supplies the other day. I won't name the shop - even though they are not at fault or to blame for anything here!
Anyway - I saw they had a stock of new Discus in which all looked really stunning, healthy, brightly coloured and so on - except for one. He was very skinny and had turned the "stress black". The shop told me he had come with the rest of the stock, had been with them for one month but simply wouldn't eat anything. They had tried all sorts of food and he had refused all.
So basically I told them I had a QT tank up and running at home and they offered him to me to see if I could save him. I said yes, brought him home and he's in my QT tank for the last few days now. Still he's refusing to eat and just looks really skinny.
He's quite lively - in terms of swimming around a fair bit. I have tried Tetra Prima, small flakes, blood worm but he's refusing all. I have the temp at 30, pH is about 6.4.
Any suggestions on what I can do to get him eating, or what might be causing him to not eat?
Rob
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- Valerie (Valerie)
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Valerie
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- Zoom (Zoom)
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from what you have said so far I'm thinking Intestinal problems hole in the head(hexamita) protoopalina or spironucleus,which are flagellates. I'd try metronidazol if you can get your hands on it, I had some and looking to get more had a mate that worked in a chemist and was able to get stuff for me, but has since retired so looking for a small bit to have at hand myself. Also a long bath first in trichlorfon(I think thats the name more commonly called clout.) which is also got from a chemist, It is risky trying any of these treatments at the best of times , and cant always gaurantee a success.
The mix is 250 mg of metronidazol in 50 ltrs of water once off and after 4 days change 50% of the water.These medicines are designed for humans. First off I would raise the temperature to 35 degrees over a period of 3-4 days and aerate the water well this treatment can sort out other problems that the discus may be suffering as a knock on effect while you are trying to source a remedy. Another way to inhibit problems is to start dropping the pH to very lows around <4.5, this has a wide effect also, this however is dangerous and needs to be done with care also when the pH is so low along with killing bad bacteria it will kill off the benificial bacteria on the filter. Its always hard to diagnose a problem as the under lying problem is usually hidden behind others. This however is only a guide as we dont know what the problem is. I would love to see you solve this problem but personally I think the chance of success is about 20% from what you have said and the amount of time the Discus is suffering. Also there is a treatment called Dactymore (I think thats how you spell it , that may also treat this problem but unlikely.
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- Zoom (Zoom)
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This is a link to trichlorfon, I wonder can any of the LFS source this?
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- Chief Robert (Chief Robert)
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No stringy poo, no white poo - no poo at all!!!! He's not been eating at all since I got him (Wednesday night) and the LFS told me he hadn't eaten in days for them either.
No little creatures, no flukes, no nothing (or at least I haven't seen any). I tried to inspect him as best I can (just by looking) and couldn't see anything like that on him. However his fins do look like they were nibbled or nicked or something - they are not the long and "healthy" looking fins I have on my discus in the main tank. (He is alone in the QT)
I can bring the temperature up and lower the pH a little more for sure. But I am really reluctant to add medication to him while he is so frail. I think any strong dose might be enough to kill him completely. At the same time I don't hold out much hope for him so maybe adding something will be the only hope???
As I said he seems reasonably lively but maybe despite everything he won't last that long regardless of what is done for him? If so - what would you guys reckon is the best medication (bearing in mind I might only get one shot at dosing him with anything)
Thanks again,
Rob
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- Ian (Anthony Ramirez)
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Fishkeeping CV: Co-founded, 1st President of the only surviving Fishkeeping Club (Accredited by Dept. of Fisheries) in the Philippines (mypalhs.com). I have mostly reared tropicals - Arowanas and monster fishes. My oldest arowana is 13years old (died in a tropical storm). Ive since reared a Black,...
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- Chief Robert (Chief Robert)
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He's really skinny at the moment
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- Ian (Anthony Ramirez)
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Fishkeeping CV: Co-founded, 1st President of the only surviving Fishkeeping Club (Accredited by Dept. of Fisheries) in the Philippines (mypalhs.com). I have mostly reared tropicals - Arowanas and monster fishes. My oldest arowana is 13years old (died in a tropical storm). Ive since reared a Black,...
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- russell (russell watson)
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Sorry can't be of any more help. with out seing it.
Best of luck
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- Fishowner (Gavin fishowner)
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Gavin
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- Chief Robert (Chief Robert)
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I've raised the temperature up to 32 degrees, done a gentle water change (water coming from my main Discus tank - which I change regularly). I've not given him any medication. As I said, he just looked too frail to give him anything, and as Russell confirmed I just had to make a choice that giving him anything might just kill him.
This morning I tried giving him flakes (broken up to be almost fine) and I tried from discus mix as well - but he's still not eating.
What I'm going to do is leave him as is for another day. Fingers crossed the poor fella pulls through. If he's still okay tomorrow, and he continues to colour up, I might try some medication then.
If anyone else thinks better please let me know!
Thanks again all,
Rob
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- russell (russell watson)
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- sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie)
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heres what i found may help
Internal parasites
A Discus can harbor internal parasites without really being ill, but in some situations the parasites will start to grow exponentially and can then pose a serious threat to your fish. Common warning signs are emaciation and white feces. It can be hard to diagnose exactly which parasites that is responsible without performing an autopsy, but many different parasites are fortunately sensitive to Metronidazole (Flagyl) treatment. Increasing the water temperature and providing additional aeration is also recommended. If your Discus is still eating, you can prepare a solution of 200 ml water and 10 ml liquid Flagyl and soak its favorite food in it, e.g. live worms or larvae, for about one hour. Feed your Discus medicated food every 2-3 days for 10 days. If your Discus has stopped eating it is much harder to medicate it since you will have to force feed it using a syringe without the needle. Prepare a mixture of one part liquid Flagyl, two parts Liquid fry food and three parts water. The liquid fry food is there to prevent the fish from starving to death while you treat it. Add the mixture to a syringe and place your Discus on a wet towel. Use the syringe to force 2 ml down the fish's throat and wait for it to swallow before you return it to the aquarium. It will expel a lot of the mixture through its mouth and gills, but at least a bit of it will be swallowed. You need to feed your fish the medication twice a day until it starts to recover. Being exposed to this type of treatment is naturally always highly stressful for a fish, especially one that is already weakened by parasites.
Fishkeeping the Only way to get wet and wild
currently 25 tanks, and breeding is the aim of everything i keep
location:Limerick
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- Ian (Anthony Ramirez)
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Fishkeeping CV: Co-founded, 1st President of the only surviving Fishkeeping Club (Accredited by Dept. of Fisheries) in the Philippines (mypalhs.com). I have mostly reared tropicals - Arowanas and monster fishes. My oldest arowana is 13years old (died in a tropical storm). Ive since reared a Black,...
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- russell (russell watson)
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- Chief Robert (Chief Robert)
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I've done several small and gentle water changes (always using water from my main Discus tank) just to clear off the un-eaten food at the bottom of the tank.
The water temp is up at 32 all the time - and I have a little pump pushing air bubbles into the water just to keep it aerated.
I've kept the tank dark and only had the light on for a few hours tops most days.
I started treating him on Sunday with a combination of API Malafix - Anti Bacterial Treatment and Interpet Anti Internal Bacteria No.9. He didn't respond to either treatment. I picked them because I felt they were mild enough to not kill him.
I think in his weakened state I will have to risk giving him a final one, and only one, dose of some medication, otherwise he will just slowly fade away and die due to lack of eating anything.
There are no obvious signs of anything wrong with the fish in terms of stringy poo, worms, or anything attaching themselves to him. No white spots. Nothing evident except for the fins are slightly nibbled, and he is extremely skinny.
All suggestions welcome...
Thanks.
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- alkiely (alan kiely)
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Alan
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- Chief Robert (Chief Robert)
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Good point - I hadn't mentioned the fact that he's a relatively young Discus (a Blue Diamond). I'd say he's about 3 to 4 months judging by size but it's hard to guess sometimes.Is he a young or old fish.....? coz if old could be some problem that just cant be helped its seems you have done all yo can this could be out of ur control i feel.
Alan
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- alkiely (alan kiely)
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I still think its intestinal flagellates. Only option I'd try now is to try get some metronidazol mix it up into a solution with food fill up a syringe and force feed him with it. I know this is hard to do, but sounds like he is on his way out either way. Last shot in the next few days from the sound of it.
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- alkiely (alan kiely)
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- Chief Robert (Chief Robert)
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1) He wasn't the only fish they got in that delivery batch
2) All other fish seemed really healthy in the shop
3) The LFS had already segregated him off from the other fish into his own tank by the time I had gotten in to see him.
So I really don't think it was the water quality - again I can't be 100% certain but have to rule it out of the possible causes of the problem for now (in my humble opinion)
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- Chief Robert (Chief Robert)
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I haven't used Metronidazol before so I'll have to get it tomorrow. Shouldn't be that hard to get, is it?Is it possible to post a pic of him?
I still think its intestinal flagellates. Only option I'd try now is to try get some metronidazol mix it up into a solution with food fill up a syringe and force feed him with it. I know this is hard to do, but sounds like he is on his way out either way. Last shot in the next few days from the sound of it.
I'll resort to force feeding him tomorrow with the syringe.
DO you guys think that Bloodworm (mixed up and liquified) is the best thing to (force) feed him now?
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- alkiely (alan kiely)
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Did ur lfs stay anything about the delivery was there a problem with it anything strange?
If you didnt ask id ask them you could be missing something there
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- chris (chris)
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