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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Does anybody know of a law in Ireland (north and south)

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30 Apr 2007 11:20 #1 by Sp00ky (Sp00ky)
that prohibts the shipping of tropical fish from the UK ?

Just had my courier on the phone and he has stated to me that there might be a law that prevents them from shipping fish to Ireland and if they did they would get into BIG trouble for it!!

I just wondered if anyone knew of any such law and if it only applies to endangered or the usual sturgeon and cold water fish?

This could have a massive impact on my business at the moment if there is and i cant find anything concreate on DEFRA's site

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30 Apr 2007 11:55 #2 by Daragh_Owens (Daragh Owens)
Relates to coldwater fish originating in Europe only as far as I know.

Daragh

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30 Apr 2007 12:21 #3 by Sp00ky (Sp00ky)
Hi daragh, i have just emailed you.

Im of the same train of thought as in that its coldwater fish only. i cant find any info on the net about it at all.

whats irelands equivelant of DEFRA over there??

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30 Apr 2007 14:06 #4 by Daragh_Owens (Daragh Owens)
I guess it would come under the dept of agriculture. But honestly dont know.

Daragh

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30 Apr 2007 14:15 #5 by Acara (Dave Walters)
Must be a big department,I beleive they are responsible for the vetting and processing of license applications for doormen and security guards.Yep,I know,doesnt really make sense to me either.
sp00ky,I would say your courier just dosnt want to deal with bags full of water and livestock.Its a bit like hassles I have had with police in the past,you ask them to license something,they say no,so you turn up with a solicitor and ask them to point out the actual law that says no,remind them they are there to enforce the law,not make it up,and hey presto,license appears.

always on the lookout for interesting corys.pm me if you know off any!

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30 Apr 2007 14:43 #6 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: Does anybody know of a law in Ireland (north and south)
All shipments of live fish and plants have to be cleared by customs and the Departmant of Agriculture. But they don't seem to be exactly up to speed if I see what fish are on offer. I have also seen crayfish that shouldn't be sold here either

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30 Apr 2007 14:44 #7 by JohnH (John)
The way it was told to me there is no restriction on moving permitted live fish between any EEC member states...I think this becomes a bit 'shady' as no-one would appear to be certain which are permitted and which are not and it's my guess that they are erring on the side of caution...

Sorry I cannot be of more help, this scenario doesn't do me any favours either.

Did you check whether your couriers would carry live fish to N.Ireland? (I think you might have sent some fish there fairly recently) if so this whole thing is a right shambles!

Ho hum, bureaucracy, who needs it?

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


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It's a long way to Tipperary.

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30 Apr 2007 16:23 #8 by Sp00ky (Sp00ky)
thanks guys for the info.

This courier is really good and they are (as far as i am aware) the ONLY coruire here in the UK that will actually take live fish for delivery. Every consignment i have had has come by them and i have sent fish via them as well.

They put plenty of lables on the boxes to identify it has liquids inside and and they take great care of the boxes

From what i can gather at the moment, it appears that it is only coldwater fish that are currently banned to stem the spread of the carp virus.

Nevertheless, i have emailed both DEFRA and the Dept of Agri in Ireland to ask for their views :)

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01 May 2007 03:27 #9 by serratus (Drew Latimer)
Hi Guys
It is Illegal FULL STOP, to transfer colwater fish from the UK and parts of Europe such as koi, goldfish, sturgeon, orfe, bitterling etc. as well as red eared terrapins and all crayfish species except quadricarinatus from Australia. You can get up to €5000- fine/6 months in jail or both!!!! Mainly because of the SVC and KHV in coldwater carp in the UK, however authorities here are a bit laid back imo, i wont go into details..... but i have customers telling me they have seen sturgeon/orfe/rudd etc in small country petshops!!!!!!

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01 May 2007 05:09 #10 by TomNolan (Tommy Nolan)
However it's not Illegal to transport tropical fish from the UK to Ireland, something I heard when I was doing some research. But as suggested you probably should contact the Department of Agriculture / Marine as you need some forms sent out I believe.

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01 May 2007 05:14 #11 by JohnH (John)
Good Man Drew,
I was hoping you would come along with some clarification on this matter...

I was thinking it was only Cold Water fish...and now we know!

Mind you, at the rate the foreign nationals (no, not me...) are taking fish out of our waters (by the bin-bag full - no prisoners EVERYTHING goes in!!!) we might have to think of having to import replacements, if only for their benefit!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

John :roll:

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


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It's a long way to Tipperary.

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01 May 2007 06:29 #12 by Sp00ky (Sp00ky)

Hi Guys
It is Illegal FULL STOP, to transfer colwater fish from the UK and parts of Europe such as koi, goldfish, sturgeon, orfe, bitterling etc. as well as red eared terrapins and all crayfish species except quadricarinatus from Australia. You can get up to €5000- fine/6 months in jail or both!!!! Mainly because of the SVC and KHV in coldwater carp in the UK, however authorities here are a bit laid back imo, i wont go into details..... but i have customers telling me they have seen sturgeon/orfe/rudd etc in small country petshops!!!!!!



thanks for that. Im still awaiting and official response from CEFAS yet. Good job i dont have anything to do wth coldwater fish tbh.

Again, many thanks for the info :)

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01 May 2007 14:22 #13 by Daragh_Owens (Daragh Owens)
As a matter of interest, did you get a reply to your emails to Dept of Agriculture here or Dera there?

Daragh

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01 May 2007 16:25 #14 by Sp00ky (Sp00ky)

As a matter of interest, did you get a reply to your emails to Dept of Agriculture here or Dera there?

Daragh


not yet Daragh. however, if things dont work out, i have a friend in northern ireland who will take them and hold them until the customer in southern ireland can pick them up :)

as soon as i get a response from either establishment i will let you know :)

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14 May 2007 05:48 #15 by Sp00ky (Sp00ky)
Finally got word back from CEFAS.....

FDA1441

Your enquiry has reached the FHI direct and also via the Defra helpline for response.

The movement of tropical species for ornamental use (safest definition is those which cannot survive in the natural aquatic environment) between EU Member States is permitted and does not require any health certificate, movement document or licence.

The EU brought in new transport legislation in January. In GB this is adminstered by the State Vetinery Service. Information can be obtained from the following:

www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare or This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or 0207 904 6576

Debbie Murphy
Fish Health Inspectorate

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14 May 2007 07:20 #16 by JohnH (John)

The movement of tropical species for ornamental use (safest definition is those which cannot survive in the natural aquatic environment) between EU Member States is permitted and does not require any health certificate, movement document or licence.


Gracious!!!

I got something right for a change!

But it's great nevertheless to have it confirmed 'in writing' so to speak...

Thanks Sp00ky.

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


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It's a long way to Tipperary.

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14 May 2007 11:55 #17 by Daragh_Owens (Daragh Owens)
That clarified that, now to getting them on a plane! If they are so interested in the healt of chickens is it terrorism regs or what that means you can't transport fish by air?

Daragh

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14 May 2007 15:56 #18 by Zoom (Zoom)

That clarified that, now to getting them on a plane! If they are so interested in the healt of chickens is it terrorism regs or what that means you can't transport fish by air?

Daragh


Daragh if you find out how it works bringing the fish through customs at the airport i'd be very interested, please let me know the procedure. I've often been away and visited some shops in europe and seen some fish i would have bought if I knew how to get them back on the plane , so would be great if you could let me know.
Thanks

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15 May 2007 01:28 #19 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: Does anybody know of a law in Ireland (north and south)
All depends on the airline. BA have no issues when you check them in. I did it last year no problem. Friend of mine tells me Aer Lingus are the same But Glen from Fins and Things can't get them to bring fish in from the Czech Republic.
Ryanair don't say what their policy is in their terms and conditions. My old man's coming over next month and wants to donate 10 L46. I rang Ryanair twice and got two different answers. And I bet if I rang them again I'd get another answer. I plainly refuse to fly with them. IMO, Aer Lingus customer service is useless but Ryanair manages to top that with ease. Several phone calls to BA always brought exactly the same answer and they do give it to you in writing if you so wish. With Ryanair you would be lucky to get the second name of the person you were talking to. My dad rang them if he could just buy another seat purely to get the baggage allowance. They told him that this was OK. At check in they wouldn't let him check in the luggage for the 2nd seat he has bought. Thankfully he taped his call to Ryanair. Court case is pending. Only way to teach these people.

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15 May 2007 02:52 #20 by JohnH (John)

My old man's coming over next month and wants to donate 10 L46


Some people have all the luck!!!

Can I be first in the queue if you breed them???

You old mate (donig some crawling here)

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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15 May 2007 03:16 #21 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: Does anybody know of a law in Ireland (north and south)
The old man's breeding them quite successfully. Apparently not that hard either. The secret seems to be pipes of the right diameter and a high protein diet. Getting them over here is the problem. I don't want to use a private carrier. Don't want to bring them through Heathrow either because the customs staff are pig ignorant. They actually wanted to put fish I had in my carry on luggage through the x ray machines. If the airport police didn't have their MP5s, murder would have been done as I would shoved that idiot through the x-ray machine.
My wife talking in Irish to my eldest didn't help matters either...
BA are great for transporting fish, however, customs in the UK are pain and plain ignorant.

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15 May 2007 11:05 #22 by Sp00ky (Sp00ky)
As far as i am aware, here in the UK there are only 3 airports where you can have fish flown to. Thats Heathrow, Gatwick and Manchester.

I have just applied to DEFRA for my import licence as im about to start importing from Columbia. The licence runs for 12 months and is free :)

As for a carrier, i do know that DanAir specialise in carrying live fish as they do the route from Brazil. Their care of the fish whilst in transit is 2nd to none so if DanAir fly into Ireland it might be worth giving them a tinkle:)

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15 May 2007 11:16 #23 by koinonia (koinonia)
excuse me :lol: whats an L46 :oops:

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15 May 2007 11:33 #24 by Sp00ky (Sp00ky)

excuse me :lol: whats an L46 :oops:


special fried rice with crispy won ton isnt it?

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15 May 2007 11:41 #25 by koinonia (koinonia)

excuse me :lol: whats an L46 :oops:


special fried rice with crispy won ton isnt it?



typical..ask a genuine question..get a stupid answer :lol: :lol:

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15 May 2007 11:47 #26 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: Does anybody know of a law in Ireland (north and south)
L46 is Hypancistrus zebra, a species of pleco. Very hard to get and very pricey. Brazil will not allow anybody to export it while destroying its habitat through aluminium extraction.

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15 May 2007 11:53 #27 by Zoom (Zoom)
Suckermouth catfish or armoured cat fish is part of the family loricariids ,
This family are all given L numbers to identify each fish in this family , fish that have a common name in the fish stores as (pleco's) . The L 46 is what would be known as Hypancistrus Zebra or the zebra plec there are a few that resemble this fish I think the L98 which would be a close related species also the L173 and L236 which are part of the same genus but i think are a little smaller.

A totally beautiful plec in around 5 inches which is alot smaller than some of the common plec's we see in stores when both at full maturity .

Would take one if i could get it for the right price :D

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15 May 2007 11:56 #28 by Sp00ky (Sp00ky)

excuse me :lol: whats an L46 :oops:


special fried rice with crispy won ton isnt it?



typical..ask a genuine question..get a stupid answer :lol: :lol:


LOL sorry :) :) :)

Its a very rare plec as the others have said. Normally sell for anything up to £250.00 EACH !

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15 May 2007 12:52 #29 by koinonia (koinonia)
thanks for the reply guys ..i think i should have settled for the chinese menu option :lol:

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15 May 2007 13:36 #30 by Valerie (Valerie)
Replied by Valerie (Valerie) on topic Re: Does anybody know of a law in Ireland (north and south)
Hi,

Coming back to fish transportation, I believe airline passengers cannot carry liquid (more than 100ml) in their handluggage. Would the fish be ok travelling in the luggage compartment (The container as well as the fish's hearts would both have to be solid seeing the way airline crews handle the suitcases !)? :shock:

Valerie

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