Tropical or Coldwater

Hi All

I thinking about getting a tank, always loved the idea but never got around to it till now. I've been reading here on all that needs to be done in the up-keep of a tropical tank and now I'm scared of the idea of tropical fish, maybe I'd be better starting of with a fresh water tank and working my way up. I'd hate to have spent a load of money on a tropical set-up only to see my pride and joy dying off and not knowing what I did wrong. Are there such a thing as hardy tropical fish that would be able to stand up to the antics of a novice? What would you guys/gals think I'd need to start out with? (shopping list would be great)
The room I was thinking of placing my tank has a corner that I could have a tank about 1000mm to 1200mm in width.

Any advice would be great

Pat

Tropical fish are easier to keep in many respects. First of all they tend to be a lot smaller than most coldwater fish, i.e. produce less waste per fish. A filter will work more effectively at warmer temperatures and the aquarium is thus easier to maintain.
In the summer months you might have to cool a coldwater set up. Coolers are quite expensive to buy and run. Ask any marine fishkeeper.
The space you have for your tank does not really lend itself to a coldwater tank since most coldwater species need a considerably bigger tank. Bitterlings would be one option but their import is illegal which is a real pity. Some of the Japenese species are real crackers.
Just take your time with the set-up of a tropical tank and don't hesitate to ask any question here on the forum. There are no stupid questions only stupid answers.

Yes I agree coldwater are more difficult than you think, its just they are more often than not diease redden in the pet shops and are doomed to die, the exception to this is Koi, which have a lower mortality rate, if one wanted to be cynical and rate the most difficult fish from disease prospective, and getting easier going down the list it would be in my book.

Moorish idols (6months)
Goldfish (10days) from pet shops
most butterfly's except origa 2years
Discus 3-8 years if you keep on top of diseases.
Chocolate guaranis
dwarf gouramis
Mud skippers
Terrapins
marine angels over 4 inches
Clown fish and damsels
Koi carp
Community amazon fish
African childes (never had to put meds in hardy as nail!
Most cat fish
Common Plec
Common clown fish (breading pair kept in the refrigerator, with zero maintenance)

Ok

I've decided to go out tomorrow and get my new tank. It's a 240L Rio (I Think)Not going to go mad and buy fish as Daragh advised me not to just yet. I'm going to put the faith of my tank in the hands of you guys as I have really no idea where to start, a complete novice here. This site has been a great help to me in reading all the posts it has gave me some idea of what I'm getting started into. I look forward to posting many questions and getting loads of advise in the future.

Pat

@ Pat,

Best of luck with your new venture. If you require any help, don't hesitate to post here and we'll try to help you !

Valerie

Hi

Is there anything else I should pick up other than the tank when I up there? I know the tank has a filter and heater, Do you need and external filter too? Do I need a testing kit? if so what type? Do I get plants and rocks backround etc at this stage? I have read about cycling the tank, I presume the tank has no pedals so what does that mean? I guess its to get the quality of the water right to support fish. As to the type of fish I will be putting in, I have really no idea yet. open to suggestions from you guys. If I was to get a fish or two tomorrow, just to have something to look at over the xmas, would a couple of goldfish be ok? I can then put them in my pond when things are ready, or would this cause problems later.

Pat

Hi Pat, nice size tank you have choosen. To answer some of your questions:

An external is not required, you may wish to add one later, but dont worry about that now.

A test kit is essential, I suggest the API master test kit, Aqautic Village(AV) have them on special at the moment. An excellent investment and you WILL need it over the next few weeks and then regularly in the future.

Why are you buying a tank without pedals? Cycling a tank is the run in period which can be 2 to 6 weeks, it is (in simple terms) the time it takes for the good bacteria to colonise you filter which convert ammonia (very nasty) into nitrite (less nasty) into nitrate (least nasty) There are excellent posts on the forum but I cant find them, the search function is broken at the moment Here is a link to a fairly good guide to cycling:

www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/cycling2.htm

There are several ways to cycle a tank and you will get as many different suggestions as to what to do as there are fishkeepers. Basically there are two \"fishless\" and \"with fish\". Fishless is probably the best, but few new fishkeepers go that route as they want fish in their tanks from day one. So on the basis you want a couple of fish and you have somewhere to house the goldfish afterwards, buy two or three small ordinary goldfish - no fancies. You also need to buy water conditioner to treat your water before putting in the tank, Nutrafin Plus, Tapsafe etc, any brand really will do.

There are chemical additives to cycle your tank faster like SafeStart - too expensive and I don't think it is that good anyway. There are others too, but don't worry about that. Go with cycling using three goldfish.

You will be changing about 10 - 20% of your water every day to keep the goldfish safe from the ammonia spike, which will slow the cycle process a little but at least they will live through the experience and get to see your pond

Background is personal choice, there are the usual stick on ones for the outside or getting popular now are internal ones that are 3D and very expensive. They look much better, however they have to be cut to fit the tank and siliconed into place which means it will have to dry for 24 hours before adding water. Have a look at what they have and decide, but if you get a 3D background - don't buy the goldfish!

You will need a substrate, personally I prefer a light 1cm deep sand bed, Playsand is perfect and cheaper than aquarium sand, but the choice is yours, just avoid coral gravel unless you are going for cichlids and want a high pH, if affects pH and most fish will not like that. You can also get various gravels that don't affect pH and look well, black is popular, but don't get the black glass type, get the Roman brand black if you want black at all. Leave rocks and plants for the moment until you decide what you are going to do fish wise. Buy a small tub of fish food and a medium sized net.

I think that is it for tomorrow. Best of luck.

HI Pat,
some excelent advice from Daragh! Could i also suggest you click articles and then Beginners there is one there might also help but feel free to contact any of us if you have any questions.

Mickey

@ Pat,

Indeed Daragh, excellent post summarising the new fish-keeper's shopping list.

Depending of the type of fish you want to acquire later (community/cichlids...), you could get some hardy tropical fish like Danio Rerios. They are very hardy and 1/2 a dozen in your tank should be fine (with frequent water changes to alleviate the ammonia spike). Danios are a community fish type - if you were to go the cichlid route, maybe goldfish are better (no heating required for these)as you can relocate them later.

As far as substrate is concerned, sand can indeed look nice ; I personally prefer pea gravel as there is less risk of scratching the glass when cleaning the tank. However, it's a question of preference.

For decoration, you could use terracotta pots as they are neutral and should not impact the water parameters. They are very cheap and available in all sizes. Just make sure you boil them a while and scrub them before adding them to the tank.

Have a nice day shopping !

Valerie

Well Pat, how did you get on, did you get the tank? Have you filled it etc?

Hi Daragh

Well the tank has been up and running for 2 days now. I put some pea gravel in (after washing it) The water is still a bit cloudy but maybe it will clear in a few days.
The out flow pipe from the pump should be pointed in what direction? I got a API test kit and I have just tested the water for the first time. Not sure what the reading mean but here's the results
Nitrite and Nitrate 0
Ph. 7.8
Ammonia .20
The water temp is at 26 C. I have 7 gold fish milling around, they seem to be happy. How do I know if I have fed them enough?
I was told by the shop to put in some Stress ZYME and Stress COAT. So the recommended doses have been added.

How am my doing?

Hi Pat,

Congratulations on your new tank !

Your readings are all fine except for the ammonia. You should have a reading of 0. Also, you should do a water change to dilute this ammonia which is extremely toxic for the fish.
Once the bacteria has colonised your filter, then you won't need daily water changes.

I don't know much about goldfish... are they ok at these kind of temperatures ?

Regards,
Valerie

Thanks for the advise. How much water do I need to replace? Is tap water ok to replace it with? Does it need to be heated?

I would do a 10% water change ammonia is high but to be honest acceptable use stress coat with tap water alwaysi would try and reduce the temp if possible they can survive quite happily in that temp but they pref are sightly colder. You may find they are swimming in to the cold water this is to be expect they seem to like cold showers. the problem with this temp it will reduce life expectancy. it should be noted these fish have probably been raised in a climate far hotter than ours. just reduce temp slowly if this is room temp it is fine just let them have their cold showers on a regular bases with care they can live 10 15 years but have been know to live a lot longer. the key is to regularly wash filters(in tank water from water changes) and a good variety of food

peas cooked and shelled even boiled rice do wash starch off, my lionheads swear by it!!!! it keeps them regular

I've taken out 10% of the water and replaced it treated with stress coat.I guess I'll have to repeat this every day till I get the ammonia content right down.
Thanks for the help

Just my 2pence worth.

When you are doing your testing you will have ammonia levels at first and these should reduce to zero and while it's reducing you will get NitrIte levels which inturn will reduce to zero when you will then get NitrAte. At this stage your tank will be cycled having zero Ammonia,NitrIte and some level of NitrAte.

If you want some of the good muck from my tank to help it along your more than welcome.

What part of the world are you?

Processor.

Thanks Processor for the hits. I have been getting high levels of ammonia but been told here that its to be expected Today I texted it and its gone up to about 25%, Maybe from over feeding I think. Nitrite and Nitrate are still at 0. I've changed 25% of the water today (usually 10% per day)and I'll test it again later to see what happens. Thanks for the offer of the good muck, not sure what that is but thanks anyway. I'm in Wicklow area.