how about cockatoo cichlids?

Why would you want to buy a deformed fish, or a line-bred mutated fish.

Rams are weak enough as it is at the moment, A balloon variation can only be worse. I hope we don't see these monsters in the shops in Ireland.

They are majorly inbred and and weak personally I wouldn't buy any sort of ballon anything. Why support those who think keeping a proliferating and suffering mutation for enjoyment. While the fish look well and are impressive we are surely only encouraging inbreeding and further damaging the fish trade by purchasing these fish from the suppliers etc.. We arent havent a go at you Aidann but I would like to think we are trying to represent the best interests of this hobby by simply stating the facts etc. Why not go with normal Rams,just as colourful and more natural looking also.
Gavin

Rams are one of the most stunning fish naturally, why anyone would want to line breed a balloon version is beyond me and why you would particularly specifiy that you want balloon rams is beyond me two.

Where have you seen pictures of them that makes you want them so much if you have not seen them in your local LFS. I would be interested to see the pictures as I find it hard to believe they could look any better than the real thing.

Welcome to the forum, you have gone in a the deep end and touched a nerve as far as a few people are concerned, as you see. But you are still very welcome, why don't you tell us what other fish you keep etc.

Daragh

Hi aidann06,
welcome to the forum, just quickly saying you should try the golden rams first, imo a much nicer fish, true to breed and not as weak as this mutated strain, the regular fish is much more of a joy to keep much more active and more likely to live a longer and healthier life... as you will find out i'm sure we like our fish au naturel these dyed, mutated and line bred species are generally frowned upon as being cruel to the fish and made weak by these mutations so you'll probably spend more rebuying the variety due to a shorter lifespan, hope this is of some enlightenment to you and if your thinking of other fish let us know your queries.
Seamus

sorry i touched such a nerve did not mean to im only a beginner at this so i would not no.
i have 6 tanks the collection gets bigger every day ha i have 2 breeding pairs of angelfish a breeding pair of kribs and some unusual bettas like copper and lavender butterfly pairs and some plakats.

Don't worry about it Aidan. This is all about educating one another and promoting responsible fishkeeping.

Ordinary rams are great little fish but to be honest i've never had much success with them due to my hard water and the fish themselves generally being weak.

Hi Aidann06, cockatoo cichlids are a beautiful little cichlid, if you can manage to breed angels you should fly with these, also check out some other of the apistogramma species as they are a great bunch of fish, the likes of the hongsloi, aggassi, borelli, veija etc are beauties imo.. these have beautiful colouration and are not too big in size max of 2.5\"ish and i,ve never had any trouble from them
Seamus

\"Dreadful Mutants\" is a bit harsh John. Breeding programs of healthy strong Discus, able to withstand aquarium life are IMO good for the hobby. Hard and sensitive Wilds are beautiful but difficult for the average keeper. i dont think they should be confused with deformity..

adamireland wrote:

\"Dreadful Mutants\" is a bit harsh John. Breeding programs of healthy strong Discus, able to withstand aquarium life are IMO good for the hobby. Hard and sensitive Wilds are beautiful but difficult for the average keeper. i dont think they should be confused with deformity..

i find my self in the last few days reconsidering my position on this subject. captive breeding to protect wild stock or endangered species is one thing. to enhance colour i do not have a problem with but having watched Pedigree Dogs Exposed it does bring in to question the reason why some types are allowed.

the short term gain will only lead to people being discouraged from the hobby and pets in general.

There are certain pet shops i do not visit simply because of the bad name they have with pedigree dogs in my humble opinion if they show so little regard for a dogs health it will be even less for other creatures.

it is simple there are laws that state how animals should be treated and what is cruel these should be enforced. hybrids or mutations that fail these standards should be ban from the country and companies that send these fish here should first be made aware of our laws and those that break them not allowed to ship here.

i have seen the disappoint on lfs owners face when they open a box to find these first they are unwanted and second they are sent to replace a short fall in the order. now they add a special order stating that dyed, tattooed or mutants will not be excepted or payed for! it may delay an order slightly but the stock is to the level they expect and we expect.

the way forward is less of the terms like mutations tattooed dyed and more information on methods used to dye and tattoo fish and information so people will understand the problems and possible expense with mutations because of ill health.

we can only educated and people will make an informed choice one they choose to live with.

i took you up on your advice about borelli and agassizi i bought for of each and there having a great time since only thing is that the 4 agassizi fish are you and small but they are blue in colour is this noral? i thought they were meant to be red on the tail? or does this all come with age?

yeah i have loads of hiding places and loads of plants their realing thriving and the borelli are getting huhe i have caves that are meant to be for lizards but i use for the fish and loads of coconut shells and some with jave moss on them altho they have been digging out under the built in filter for protection ..

i bought the fish in limerick city ,cecil street a place called under water world you have to go down stairs for it the man inside(kevin) is really sound and packed with info and great healthy fish

Hey Aidann06,
I know Kevin very well dealing with him since he started, he's a damn good guy, you sound like you've your setup sorted but if you need any more advise shout or if you;ve any real problems pm me i'm in Limerick myself
Seamus

if you head in some day after tuesday next week he will have his order in no i did not get that fish their i got it on aqua bid they have one of the best selections of bettas around that ive seen

JohnH wrote:

AdamIreland:

\"Dreadful Mutants\" is a bit harsh John. Breeding programs of healthy strong Discus, able to withstand aquarium life are IMO good for the hobby. Hard and sensitive Wilds are beautiful but difficult for the average keeper. i dont think they should be confused with deformity..

Let's just say that our views differ and leave it at that. You obviously have a vested interest in promoting these fish as you're in business to sell them while I just would sooner they were never developed in the first place.

John

Not interested in getting in the middle of it but ehh...

I'd have reckoned that someone with a \"vested intrerest in selling fish\" as you put it would benefit more from non-mutants that die easier on hobbiest rather than mutants that are easier to keep thus last longer thus shops sell less fish no???

Thank god for Evolution I say.
I'd rather be sitting here watching my plasma tv than swinging from a tree

Loggser wrote:

Thank god for Evolution I say.
I'd rather be sitting here watching my plasma tv than swinging from a tree

I don't know if someone would actually sit down and plan to produce fish that would have a shorter lifespan because of poor genectics and deformities, if they wanted to do that I am sure there would be easier ways to affect regular fish than to come up with new strains that no matter how much some people, including myself, dislike them know takes a lot of work developing and fixing.

It is more likely that they are produced to satisfy consumer demand of always getting something new or different, the model with the go faster stripes.

Personally most evenings I would prefer to be swinging from a tree than watching some of the crap on TV, TV is counter productive as far as evolution goes lot of the time


Daragh

Daragh_Owens wrote:

Loggser wrote:

Thank god for Evolution I say.
I'd rather be sitting here watching my plasma tv than swinging from a tree

Personally most evenings I would prefer to be swinging from a tree than watching some of the crap on TV, TV is counter productive as far as evolution goes lot of the time


Daragh

Ok you've a point there