Here is a poser

Last week I sold six large cichlids less than a year old for about a 1/4 of their value.
They were in top notch shape. In super condition and not sick.
I told the guy who bought them what and how much to feed them.
I heard today that the fish are dead and that he wants his money back.
I told him the water parameters including the temp.
They lasted for a week.I would never sell sick or injured fish. If one was dodgy I would refumd immediately what he gave me. I give more fish and equipment away than a Trocaire petshop.

Does anyone think I should refund this guy. He got nearly 600 euro worth of fish for 200 euro. I only sold them because I needed the space for Discus. I was going to take them back from the petshop but they rang me and asked me to sell them to this guy.
IMO he killed the fish either through bad husbandry or over feeding.
As far as I am concerned he can sing for it. I would never sting anyone and have had people come form far and near to buy my fish. I feed them the best food and clean the tanks on a weekly basis.

Please be honest with your taughts. I will delete this post after I have gotten x amounts of views. The person is not a member of this forum or the organisation.

I have to say being new back to fishkeeping that one thing has never changed from the 'old days' and that is once you walk out the shop with a fish its yours.
If it lives for 10 years great, or 10 minutes its tough titty.
If I buy a sick fish and he dies thens its my fault.
If I buy a healthy fish I kill him then its my fault.

If you have taken what moral steps you think is right then thats all you can do.
This guy obviously killed 6 very bloody expensive fish by poor care.
F*** him. He'll have to learn the hard way.
Just like me.

My 2c.

6/6 dead sounds fishy! Did they all die together, if not the responsibility would have been with him contact you immediately for any advice or come back. Waiting until all six died points to bad husbandry or a disater like a broken heater etc, either way his fault.


Daragh

I am almost certain they all died together.
They were perfect wen they were sold. They were my fish.I raised them from 1"Juviniles. They were only in the shop for 1 week being minded for me. The guy seen them and wanted them.
I told them they would kill all his other fish and he said he doesn`t care.
IMO they killed a few fish and the corpses were unremoved and left to rot.

Anyone here who knows me wil know that I always give as much information as possible to anyone buying cichlids. I remember a guy who came in and bought Dubossi. I told him they needed a special diet but he laughed and ore or less said I was talking out of my arse.
Needless to say he came in a week later and said all his fish had swolllen bellies. He wanted to know why it was happening and what he was supposed to do.
Well..I LAUGHED AND I LAUGHED AND I LAUGHED.


Another person bought a fish and I told her it would eat all her fish. She told me she had another one(cannot remember which cichlid) and that here fish would be alright.
All her fish were eaten over the space of a week. She came in and wanted them replaced. When I reminded her wha I told her she got amnesia all of a sudden and turned from a know all into a numbnut.

I have to tell eveyone who buys cichlids(to the best of my knowledge) about their behaviour, its shop policy. I spent 40 minutes telling this guy as much as I could even though I was not working there. I just came in with my children. I even caught them for him.

It sounds like he seen the fish, wanted them and didn't give a rats ass about how to keep them.
The only payment this person should get is a good bollocking.
Lets face it apart from been kept improperly, what disease would wipe them all out in a week without obvious symptoms.
I think you would know something was wrong after the first 1 or 2 died.

Tell him you will give him his money back if he replaces the fish.
Wind him up and watch him go.

Anthony stick to your guns man he probaly put them in a coldwater tank or a pond or something the usual know it all that knows f@@k all let him learn the hard way maybe he might start giving a monkeys then............

is kinda strange. cause i am on the other side of the fence in a way. i bought 2 fish and put them in a healthy tank and i have problems + 1 of the fish is dead.. so .. in my opinion is depends. if you know the guy and he knows his stuff and keeps cichs , then.....

Hi Anthony,
screw him since he clearly screwed up. If 1 died, I'd give him a refund but 6 out of 6 clearly is his fault unless they caught something in the shop.
Holger

They were in perfect nick in the shop.
The other fish in there with them in the shop are all fine. The only time I seen fish die so rapidly was from Discus plague(not really a plague) and that was 8 Discus die in 1 week. It is a phenominal killer.
I know this might sound bad but I wanted to see the effects this would have on other cichlids and it was minimal. They did show a litte loss of colour but not darkening and that was that.
These are not the Cichlids in question.

I don`t want to get a bad name in the fish business. I have big plans for breeding fish next year(only because I can shift them now) and any fish I did breed and sell were always of the highest quality and better in colour and form than the parents.

I once got a pair of Socolofi from a friend. They were riddled with flukes and Chilodenella.
I never asked him to compensate me for the meds I had to buy. I don`t think I lost any fish in the end but I nearly lost everything.
I had fish with bleeding gills. It looked like they were chewing gum all day. Some were covered in fungus.

I could have lost all my stock.

If you fully explained to the guy the necessary requirments to keep the fish then I think you should be ok. If however you sold the guy the fish and didn't know the environment that the fish were being transfered to or didn't make the guy aware of crucial requirments then maybe the guy you sold them to has a case. for example was he going to keep Malawis in his soft acidic tank, or dump a load of Cichlids into his new gold fish bowl.
Once you made everything clear then you have nothing to worry about, even when he threatens you with legal action.

I told him the ph.
I told him the temp. I told him the diet. I told him the husbandry requirements. I told him they will eat live fish but its not a good idea to feed them to them.

You have nothing to worry about, apart from the loss of some good fish. I would not give him a refund or lose any sleep. You did all you reasonably could.


Daragh

Its not a refund it was my bloody fish he bought not the shops.
I just gave the shop a slice of the action so to speak. Did myself big time selling them.
Four of these fish were 8" long.

Don't want to come across like a hard ass here, but I'll say my piece.
While I don't think you have any moral responsibility for fish or pets of any kind once they leave the shop (unless you sold them knowing they were sick and the customer can prove it), I would have thought anyone selling fish or or working in a petshop has a responsibilty NOT to sell an animal to someone that they know won't give it the proper care. I'd have refused to sell a fish to someone if I told them my fish would probably eat their other fish and they said they didn't care. As I've said in other posts, legislation in the UK now means that it is illegal to knowingly sell an animal to someone if you have reason to believe they either won't take care of it or don't have the facilities to do so. You wouldn't sell a cow to someone with an apartment, you wouldn't sell a cat if you knew it was going to be thrown to pit bulls...

I think, f*ck this idiot. If one fish died, i'd say ok, bring me in a water sample & the fish and we'll talk.

All six die in a short period, that is tough titty. Next time he comes in sell him a book.

Stick to your guns Anto, there are too many idiots like him around.

I agree, It gets on my tit$ the amount of muppet customers I see in LFS who despite the advice offered to them persist in buying fish that they have no idea how to keep and are plainly unsuitable for their existing set up.

You did all you could, it was a very good price for the fish and the close proximity in time of all the deaths would lead me to be suspicious as well. Any long term fish keeper would know better than to ask the question in the first place in my opinion.

i suppose the question can be answered by answering a question.
Was the guy a mupper ?

If the guy was a muppet , then there is no debate.
However, if he was not a muppet .... then thats different.

its really hard when you know the fish were in good condition and they were heathy. I think i would be sad about the fish and mad with him. The fact that he got them at such a good price in the first place just makes it even worse. He seems to have been given an adequate amount of information to make an educated guess. If he was not able to supply the right conditions that was his fault. You in good conscience probably thought they were going to a good home. I think the fact that he has asked for his money back deserves a slap. I thought the law was "Buyer Beware". He got enough information and it looks like he didnt care he just wanted the fish. He probably just told you what you wanted to hear. You can only take people at face value and I am sure you wouldnt have sold him the fish if you thought he would just kill them. I think he should learn his lesson. He doesnt deserve his money back.

I stopped many a person buying fish. This guy was buying them for his father who kept fish and has a massive fish tank with just a few fish in it.

He got as much info as was possible. A poxy book would have told him less. These fish were easy enough to care for and could take a wide variety of ph varients.

This is a toughie becuase of the huge prices involved.If we were talking 10 or 20 euro there might be some agreement.

If someone is willing to invest 200 euro in fish and watch them die then they got what was coming.If the person rang Anto and said these fish dont look right and here is proof of the fish being kept in the correct water conditions etc etc then there would be a case.
Anyway that guy learned a lesson no book will teach you,know your shit before you invest in expensive fish so you should be looking for a consultancy fee of that bloke Anto.He owes you!!!

Thanks Chris.
Are you looking for a discount this weekend.

anthony i wouldn't worry about this guy if you gave him healthy fish and he and others knew they were healthy when he bought them

He knows he did wrong and is jsut chancing his arm his misuss probably gave him loads and he wants the money for xmas i would'nt give him a cent

These guys are a euro a dozen peter o b will tell you bout a guy he knows who never listens to advice and keeps killing fish

He now knows he is getting nothing for the fish.
I got a phone call this morning and he asked me to sell him some Malawi cichlids to go with Firemouth cichlids he just bought.
I told him to f**k in a nice way.
He still won`t bring in a sample of his water and he says he has loads of money and if the fish die so be it.

what a w****r

Certainly you should ask for a water sample and if there was any question of a refund then you can insist on it. You must be allowed to make ammends before the donkey,I mean customer, can do anything about it.
In an ideal world it would be good to get a sample before selling and in some cases it's probably possible. Mind you if someone was prepared to provide a sample beforehand then they are probably the very people who would be good conscientious fish keepers.

Tough call Anthony but you should do what YOU think is best and let's face it this guy didn't care and won't take resposibility for his own actions or idiocy. He f#ucked up but isn't willing to take the blame. He wants you to take the blame. His whole life is most likely like that. I can nearly picture him.

Do you need a customer like this ?
Would he end up being a good customer ?
Don't think so.

Processor.

Ps. Why don't you write these things down on the receipt then they have no comeback if they take the risk and are aware of the risk and see it in print. Also you keep a copy or a photo of it.

He has excepted the fact that he f****d up but he still has a guy from the shop ringing me and asking will I sell him some more fish.

I am not a commercial breeder. I used to breed fish and it kept me in food and chemicals. I am only starting to breed fish again. On a very small basis. 1 400l tank that I raise fry in. New year will hopefully be different.

At the end of the day my hobby is fish keeping, it is not my business. I love fish and I don`t have to sell them to make ends meet. I will not sell a guy some of my own fish knowing they will die. I did the guy a good turn but he does not care. This guy is not a fish keeper. He is a p***k.
He was looking for Parrot fish when he spotted my cichlids and the shop
rang me and asked me to come in a give him a price and some info on the fish.
This says a lot for his character.(wanting to buy Parrots)

same old same old anto.Don't let the guy get to you. For every 100 satifisfied customers you get you will always get a couple who no matter what you do they will feell hard done by.'tis the nature of retail.can't please all of the people all of the time.Stay the course man! :twisted:

It is all over and dusted.
Thanks for the support and the help.