Dead fish after fin rot - should I clean out tank?

Hi, haven't been here in a long long time! Just have one question. I had a Betta in a 28L tank by himself who just died of fin rot Had a friend minding him when the fin rot started and got home to find a huge lump of his fin missing. Tried just about everything to nurse him back to health but ended up euthanazing him as he was just getting worse. The water parameters were fine the last 2 weeks, nitrate was a little high when I got back from hols but after a couple of water changes I got it back down again. What I'm wondering is should I completely clean out the tank and start again before I put anything new in there or will a good water change and gravel vac do the job?

How high was the nitrate ?
After a 2 week holiday your nitrates shouldnt have climbed too high if you had been on top of your water changes ?
Changing too much water and/or too often will affect the nitrifying bacteria and may even send your tank back into a cycle.
If your fish is stressed, then its immune system will be lowered which will leave it more susceptible to infection.
What Medication did you use ?
These usually take a few days to run a course and generally would be used on their own unless a supplement is suggested in the instructions.
A water change before and after the course is usually standard.
Also just as in humans over medicating will damage the internal organs.
So try to stick to the stated dosage.
It can be hard when you see your fishs health fading.

Without any fish in the tank, the good bacteria will be dying off.
If you've already been getting the nitrate down and have done a water change and gravel vac to remove the medication from the water then you should be good to go.

Did you remove any active carbon from your filter before medicating ? This would remove the med from the water before it got a chance to do anything.
In Juwel filters that would be a black foam pad.

It was about 30/40ppm. I have a feeling that the fin rot had already started before I went on holiday but I just didn't notice it. His colouring made it difficult to see the darkening around the edges of his fins as he had dark edges to begin with. I treated with Aquarium salt and Melafix for 1 week, did a 25% water change and treated for another week, another water change and after another few days I decided to stop as there was absolutely no improvement in his condition, his colour was starting to fade and he was spending more time at the end of the tank.
I removed the carbon from the filter, am going to replace it now to clear out the rest of the medication. So just a water change and gravel vac and I should be good to go again?

Thats can be the hard part, spotting it early enough.
Just do a test on the parameters again before adding new fish.
There seems to be enough water changed and the new carbon pad should remove any remaining med.
Hopefully the nitrification bacteria levels are still good and you wont go into a cycle again.
If you have another tank you could add some filter squeezings or a drop of a filter start solution.
Are you getting another Betta Splendens ?

I'm assuming that you mean it was a captive bred siamese fighting fish..... uber times more tough than a wild betta.

The nitrate level is surprisingly high for a lone betta in a reasonable sized tank....but my guess is that either the tank has had a bacterial bloom of anaerobic bacteria being churned up OR there was a high level of ammonia at some stage.

Ammonia is one of the most common reasons for fin-rot. The effects of a transient ammonia poisoning can last a long time even if the fish isn't killed instantly.
But once you get ragged fins from ammonia, then the fish is more susceptible to bacterial infections (especially on tissue damaged by ammonia).

With siamese fighters in any tank, especially a large one, there is always a potential of food going to the ground and not eaten. That food will be a source of bacteria and fungi that can kill fish (especially if the fish decides to have a nibble of the un-eaten rotten food).

This could be a one-off though. If you go for a siamese fighter again, then have a go at adding peat to the filter.....they prefer quite clean mature (mature does not mean manky) acidic water.

ian

Yeah going to get another Betta, was thinking of getting something else but it's a small tank so think I'm better off to stick with a Betta, was thinking of putting an Apple Snail in there as well but not sure whether the Betta will harass it! I have a 4 foot tank I'm saving up to set up. Only have the tank so going to be a while before I can afford stand, hood, filter etc.

Tested the water today and nitrate is about 5-10mg/l, nitrite and ammonia - 0. I have Seachem Stability so might use that anyway when I put the new fish in just to be safe.

How long do you reckon I would have before it goes into a cycle again? Not too sure when the LFS will be getting in new Bettas.

There is a change that the ammonia rose as I can be a bit useless for doing regular water checks and I've caught my daughter on occasion giving the Betta extra meals because supposedly he told her he was hungry!

This may seem like a daft question but I'll never know until I ask! This is the filter I have and it takes carbon cartridges that look like this so would I be able to use peat?

www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aqua-One-Cartridge-C...5c-2pk-/370510209505
Sorry don't think the link didn't show up on the last post

i use one of these for one of my tanks, but instead of using the cartridges i use a pair of old tights with peat pellets inside it and filter wood on top of that and it works fine for me.. you could try that

sheag35 wrote:

i use a pair of old tights with frehly laid pellets inside it and wood on top of that and it works fine for me.. you could try that

that sounds uncomfortable shea lol. stick to laundered underpants.

maybe i should put a filter in your mind Derek lol

did someone call in the Denier stocking rating expert?? I'm here.

You need to make sure the denier rating of stockings/tignts is not too low (=fish-net, and the peat will fall out), or too high (eg 60 and above, else there is limited flow and you get stuck bubbles).

There are a few fish that will mix with siamese fighters.
But it is not just who the fighter will pick on, but the fighter itself (especially a male) could be the victim of fin-nippers or fish that simply dominate a feeding area (or are too fast to allow the fighter get food).
I keep mine as solitary fish, but I could easily mix them with a few other fish I have.

Siamese fighter supplies.....the LFS that I tend to get mine from are a little thin on the ground at the present time. They usually get in some very choice specimens; I'm not too sure what other places around the country have.

ian

Don't you just love when the A-Team turn up ?

Keep on top of the water changes and vacs and you should be fine.

igmillichip wrote:

There are a few fish that will mix with siamese fighters.
But it is not just who the fighter will pick on, but the fighter itself (especially a male) could be the victim of fin-nippers or fish that simply dominate a feeding area (or are too fast to allow the fighter get food).

What would you recommend putting in with a Betta in a 28 litre tank? I thought it would be a bit small to have any other fish in there.

Don't you just love when the A-Team turn up ?

I never knew the A-team knew so much about tights I feel inadequate as a woman not knowing so much about the Denier of tights.

Aims wrote:

igmillichip wrote:

There are a few fish that will mix with siamese fighters.
But it is not just who the fighter will pick on, but the fighter itself (especially a male) could be the victim of fin-nippers or fish that simply dominate a feeding area (or are too fast to allow the fighter get food).

What would you recommend putting in with a Betta in a 28 litre tank? I thought it would be a bit small to have any other fish in there.

Don't you just love when the A-Team turn up ?

I never knew the A-team knew so much about tights I feel inadequate as a woman not knowing so much about the Denier of tights.

...second point first... ..... I have 3 sons, and I hope that they know all about denier ratings etc and can, like myself, be useful when shopping with theirs girlfriends.....and be able to fix their girlfriends cars when needed.

First point.....a bit more serious. The mixing of Siamese Fighters in a community tank is always a bit contentious.

Personally, I think that Males are well best on their own.....but I have also kept them with other fish in the past with success (or what could be perceived as success....as I'm not too sure what the fighting fish recon).
If pushed for answer on putting a male in a community tank then my choice of other fish would be a good shoal of Harlequin Rasboras and a group of Corydoras cats. The corydoras may also be useful in cleaning up food that sinks to the bottom.
That would be one of the safest bets, but not all Corys can tolerate the high temperatures that siamese fighters prefer.
There are other potentials.....but that would be more of an outside chance.

My take is not that the fighter would be the terror in a community tank (apart from a few obvious fish), but the he would be the victim.

Tank size.....I personally think that a properly maintained smallish tank with a good surface area (ie not a tall tubed 28litre tank) can work well for a small group of fish especially if going for a safe community with a male siamese fighter.

Over-large tanks for a siamese fighter male could be the death of him....even if kept alone. He may simply sit in a corner and shy away from food.....and if it is a community tank then there may be more of tendency for him to do that. Not all males will act like that, but on the whole I would make a good assumption that the individual would.

If, however, we were talking about wild male siamese fighters then that is a different story as they can move around with ease and shear aggression.....but they are not really that easy to keep in the first place as they really need special water conditions if you want them to live.

Female fighters are, again, a bit of a different story. I've found that females would be easier to house in a community tank than would males, and be fine in a large community as well.

In my fish keeping history (which is long enough to know about tights and stockings ), I've gone through various specialist foci, but have always had a few siamese fighters around me. The only pain with having even just a few pairs is the housing arrangements.
And when I used to work on trying to perfect strains of fighters, it probably took more time energy and water for a few 2 inch fish than all of my marine and tanganyikan etc tanks put together took.
But.....well.....well worth the effort.

ian